Can't shake the stereotype: Electric Zoo cancelled over drug concerns

[Bongwater]

Back in the early '90s when ecstasy first came to Seattle, I remember watching these little groups of people tripping on this stuff at raves and thinking "WTF?" They were all babbly, touchy feely with themselves and everyone and everything around them and they really made me feel uncomfortable around them (as anyone would when being violated by strangers.) Between the baby talk, the pacifiers in their mouths and the weird smell of Vick's VapoRub everywhere, it felt like partying in a nursery school full of sick kids, but with a killer light show and a Lords of Acid soundtrack.

And I wasn't the only one. Most people just came for the music and to dance. Not to go around in a babbling stupor, dry-humping everything and everyone.

EDM music is supposed to be trippy. (Actually ALL music is supposed to alter your state of mind. There'd be no point in making it if it didn't.)

But to associate EDM with Molly is like associating hip-hop with crack. Or Classic Rock with LSD. Or grunge rock with heroin. Or country music with moonshine. Ridiculous assumptions, but ones that refuse to go away as long as people INSIST on believing them.

It's not the music that determines the drugs associated with it. It's the listener who chooses to live the stereotypes that were created by an ignorant public based on a comparatively few cases that pisses the rest of us off.

Notice also most music fans aren't doing anything at all (well, maybe except for beer and weed) and they are just there to enjoy the MUSIC. But like the guy with cell phone going off during a quiet passage of a classical requiem, it just takes a few people to totally screw it up for everybody else.

And you can find that in ANY public gathering. Music, sports, flea markets - you name it. Just last night, some guy was tweeking out at my local supermarket until the girl at the check out kicked him out.

The music playing over the store PA was Matchbox Twenty.

Just sayin'......

 

[Small Market Guy]

But to associate EDM with Molly is like associating hip-hop with crack. Or Classic Rock with LSD. Or grunge rock with heroin. Or country music with moonshine. Ridiculous assumptions, but ones that refuse to go away as long as people INSIST on believing them.

Not so ridiculous when almost all of the people who drop dead from ecstasy use do so at raves.

 

[bholcomb]

With all due respect Brett, how does one take a stand when there's a lot of conflict within?

You, and other like-minded individuals in the dance music industry, had talked about PSA's on Facebook. While I thought it was a noble idea, is it REALLY going to stop the problem? No. And as far as the big name DJ's are concerned, they are in a "rock and a hard place scenario". Sure they can talk to their fans somehow against "molly" yet they "lose face" because I'm sure some of them have dealt with that drug themselves. If the drug can't be "demonized" as crack was back in the early 90's, then what has to be taught here is personal responsibility and education.

Some of you have, within that sector of the dance music industry, "shot me down" regarding "education". My point is this...if personal responsibility needs to be accounted for somehow, then people NEED to learn for the sake of their own body about the dangers. While "just say no" would still be emphasized, if the young crowd is going to mess around with MDMA anyway despite being told NOT to, then they need to know what THEY have to do to protect themselves. To NOT give them that information would cause greater personal harm for EVERYONE, not just those that do it.

It's not trying to teach them tricks in a positive manner, but more of an alarmist situation like "Oh crap, I'm feeling this way, what do I do?" At least maybe a pamphlet or periodic announcements in certain places passing that education, telling them stuff such as "drink plenty of water" or whatever would be a start. Small Market Guy talked about companies promoting their products such as Monster Water. If that helps, why not.

Yeah, I know where you may go here...people throw pamphlets on the floor and don't care. Well, at least the promoters cover their own butts in that sense to these insurance companies. And yeah, that's what its about in terms of future events...the insurance companies. NOT the promoters, not private companies like Six Flags, not even government officials (unless their constituency goes hard on them). In the case of Electric Zoo, it was held on Randall's Island (which is between Manhattan, Queens and The Bronx, with the RFK (Triborough) Bridge going over it.). NOBODY lives on that island so no one would go hard on that. It is those insurance companies and because of this, EDM events will be categorized as "high risk". Which explains why an upcoming event that was supposed to happen at Six Flags New England on September 28th was "postponed".

And it gets to an answer I had said earlier...IF an insurance company covers eZoo or ANY event, they are going to want a ton of money since events like this are "high risk". And who would pay? The patrons...and they've BEEN complaining how expensive these events are yet they still go anyway. $180 a day this year? I could see promoters pushing $200 - $225. Then comes the question...when does this become TOO MUCH? That will be the "nail to the coffin."

Granted drugs are part of the music experience, like it or not, and that's in EVERY genre. However, there's always been that "disdain" with the media when it comes to dance/EDM...especially in New York and you can go back to the Giuliani days for that.

As much as I support everything dance music, and I can't believe I am saying this, maybe this EDM aspect of things has to DIE OFF. If no one is going to pay the higher ticket prices and these insurance companies rates go further through the roof, maybe its for the best? My logic is for THAT to be the "wake up call" because if you lose something you'll fight harder to get it back. And maybe THEN, things can get corrected somehow, Molly can be "demonized" and while yes, there are still the drugs that happen when it comes to music events, some people may "awaken" to being personally responsible somehow (ok, that's a "pipe" dream..no pun intended lol).

This whole entire week makes TOTAL sense now. Sorry for the length.

First off how do you know what these DJs are thinking? Have you talked to them? Some of us have and there is concern within genre. Venues across the country are looking into these issues and already in Philadelphia they are strengthening their policies. I used to work in the insurance business. These things continue no insurance carrier will insure this event. I deal with young people all day long. This isn't a just say no campaign this is a just be careful. The zoo people had numerous mentions about drinking water.

For the record Molly is dangerous.

 

[Brooklyndon]

For the record Molly is dangerous.

In your opinion...


Just for the record, I had know idea how many L7 squares troll this board. Taking a boatload of e rolling face at a rave is something millions of people have done,without incident, over the last 30 years. If it was regulated, instead of illegal, it would be as safe as advil, and definitely safer than driving a car. And save me the "Just Say No" morality play, keep your value judgments to your own body.

 

[pjc1961]

The NY Times delves into the subject of "Drug Deaths Threaten Rising Business of Electronic Music Fests" / "Drugs at Music Festivals Are Threat to Investors as Well as Fans" in this Tue. 9/10/13 article linked below:

www.nytimes.com/2013/09/10/arts/mus...-are-threat-to-investors-as-well-as-fans.html

 

[bholcomb]

In your opinion...


Just for the record, I had know idea how many L7 squares troll this board. Taking a boatload of e rolling face at a rave is something millions of people have done,without incident, over the last 30 years. If it was regulated, instead of illegal, it would be as safe as advil, and definitely safer than driving a car. And save me the "Just Say No" morality play, keep your value judgments to your own body.

First off who sayed anything about Just Say No? I believe I said several times, to act responsibly. While we are at it lets legalize every drug known to man. This is a forum for discussion, my value judgements are my opinion and I can say whatever I feel like.

 

[TonySantiago]

First off how do you know what these DJs are thinking? Have you talked to them?

Yes I have. I've spoken to a couple of them and they are worried about what's going on, as well as they SHOULD be, more venues getting cancelled means they're not getting paid. So yes Brett, I do my homework and find out things from all angles, as I should being in the position I'm in fighting for the positivity of the music.

Venues across the country are looking into these issues and already in Philadelphia they are strengthening their policies. I used to work in the insurance business. These things continue no insurance carrier will insure this event.

GOOD for PHILLY! And I hope more DO take action like that! I'm sure they'll get tougher for next year's EZoo in NYC as well as other related venues that take place here. As I was studying about everything that had went on, including a "postponement" at Six Flags New England (Agawam, MA) the insurance concern popped into my head. And I did explain it here as well when the ticket prices jump up 50%+ since now these are "high risk" events. I'm not in the insurance business but I've figured it out. I've also figured out why Bloomberg said what he did...how is it going to bother him? He's out of office at the end of the year. Luckily there isn't any constituency living on Randall's Island for people to make a stink about....maybe the Parks department but that's it.

I deal with young people all day long. This isn't a just say no campaign this is a just be careful. The zoo people had numerous mentions about drinking water.

You do a show out of a college station with students, that I know. And if you've read what I am trying to state here, I'm trying to save a life somehow...hence "education". And let's ADD THIS...people looking out for one another. It would be our version of "If you see something, SAY something." If someone looks as if they are trippin' out or just in a very bad state and needs help, people need to get that help. Get security, go to an emergency tent, whatever. Have a phone number up in various places where people can immediately call for someone. For me, I am about being careful.

By no means am I disagreeing with you about Molly, but hearing from the other side too I became more informed. As harsh as Brooklyndon's answer may seem, I hear him. And yeah, that gets back to personal responsibility. Unfortunately, that can't be taught. You either act it or you don't. And most young people don't have that maturity yet to act that way.

Here's a crazy idea, let's limit these shows to 25 and over?? Then all we have to worry about are fake ID's.

For the record Molly is dangerous.

And for the record Brett, you guys on the terrestrial side must stop treating me like a fan. I am a fan, yes, but also I've come a very long way from 2008 thanks to some of the education I've received going to music industry events as well as figuring some of the "unsaid" things behind the scenes along with my online shows going on. Thank you.

 

[Groove1670]

What happened to just going to concert, enjoying the music, and hangin' out with friends.

I heard a feature on public radio yesterday. The fan said he used molly to feel and be part of the music. Really.

Another said he was willing to take the risk. Pretty sad.

A Rihanna track was also mentioned about the use of molly.

I know drugs have been part of concert events, but it seems it is being promoted by some as being cool and the thing to do.

 

[TonySantiago]

And the hits just keep on coming with EDM Another cancellation. 2nd one since Electric Zoo. Adds on to a cancellation at Six Flags New England a week ago.

http://www.wggb.com/2013/09/11/umass-cancels-concert-over-drug-concerns/

 

[bholcomb]

Yes I have. I've spoken to a couple of them and they are worried about what's going on, as well as they SHOULD be, more venues getting cancelled means they're not getting paid. So yes Brett, I do my homework and find out things from all angles, as I should being in the position I'm in fighting for the positivity of the music.



GOOD for PHILLY! And I hope more DO take action like that! I'm sure they'll get tougher for next year's EZoo in NYC as well as other related venues that take place here. As I was studying about everything that had went on, including a "postponement" at Six Flags New England (Agawam, MA) the insurance concern popped into my head. And I did explain it here as well when the ticket prices jump up 50%+ since now these are "high risk" events. I'm not in the insurance business but I've figured it out. I've also figured out why Bloomberg said what he did...how is it going to bother him? He's out of office at the end of the year. Luckily there isn't any constituency living on Randall's Island for people to make a stink about....maybe the Parks department but that's it.



You do a show out of a college station with students, that I know. And if you've read what I am trying to state here, I'm trying to save a life somehow...hence "education". And let's ADD THIS...people looking out for one another. It would be our version of "If you see something, SAY something." If someone looks as if they are trippin' out or just in a very bad state and needs help, people need to get that help. Get security, go to an emergency tent, whatever. Have a phone number up in various places where people can immediately call for someone. For me, I am about being careful.

By no means am I disagreeing with you about Molly, but hearing from the other side too I became more informed. As harsh as Brooklyndon's answer may seem, I hear him. And yeah, that gets back to personal responsibility. Unfortunately, that can't be taught. You either act it or you don't. And most young people don't have that maturity yet to act that way.

Here's a crazy idea, let's limit these shows to 25 and over?? Then all we have to worry about are fake ID's.




And for the record Brett, you guys on the terrestrial side must stop treating me like a fan. I am a fan, yes, but also I've come a very long way from 2008 thanks to some of the education I've received going to music industry events as well as figuring some of the "unsaid" things behind the scenes along with my online shows going on. Thank you.

Tony when have I mentioned you as a fan? I have told you I think what you do is great. Do agree with you all the time? No, but thats my opinion. Is it the same opinion others maybe.

 

[George Jetson]

I hope someone reads this so pass it along.

If you want to save lives it would be nice if radio stations and party DJs could give a few tips on how to prevent these deaths from happening. A radio contest comes to mind. A woman died from drinking too much water, her brain swelled. Designer drugs do cause dehydration and you all missed the real cause of death. It's electrolyte depletion with or without dehydration. This is easily prevented by taking proper minerals and a balanced salt such as natural rock salt or unrefined sea salt. Tree nuts and bananas have a high mineral content, some sports drinks are good too, at least better than plain water.

Perhaps if molly were legal it could be sold as a blend with water, salt and minerals, also natural plant based alternatives, khat for example could reduce the demand for the synthetics. The Bloomberg ban on salty foods is another problem. This is why we see children falling over dead from playing sports. They didn't get enough sodium and the heart stops beating. This is why hospitals always give i.v. sodium bicarbonate to treat heart attacks.

Handing out free sports drinks, salt tablets and mineral water could save a few lives at these events.

People working outside, doing sports or in hot factories have been provided sports drinks for years. Many cultures also serve salt in their drinks, especially in hotter climates.

In case of overdose, water over head and neck to keep the brain cool, water by mouth slow at first, salt under the tongue so it's absorbed faster. Over heating can cause the blood/brain barrier to break down, causing convulsions and death. Mineral depletion, especially magnesium and calcium can cause convulsions. Sodium should be balanced with a small amount of potassium. Consult with experts for more advice, I am NOT a doctor and this is NOT medical advice. (Legal disclaimer)

I will leave out the angry rant about governments, money laundering and corruption.


Again, get on the air or mic and EDUCATE PEOPLE. -Oh and those test kits, also illegal, considered “drug paraphernalia” by the law. Use that hot mic to change the laws and save some lives.

 

[nd2023]

A big reason is that the stuff sold may not be pure Molly. Yes, some people are going to do it anyway, so might as well give out free Gatorade to hopefully prevent deaths from dehydration. But we need to convince those that are on the fence to just not do it at all. The majority don't do drugs.
Just yesterday, I was standing outside for 5 hours in the 90 degree heat. I sweated a lot. I drank a lot of water, but still felt "funny". That feeling only went away after I drank a Gatorade.

 

[luperm]

Why should there be free Gatorade? People need to take care of themselves. If you choose to do drugs, you need to accept the risks that go with it. Don't blame the concert organizers. Don't blame the drug dealer if the stuff isn't pure. It's the end user's fault. They made the choice.

 

[TonySantiago]

Why should there be free Gatorade? People need to take care of themselves. If you choose to do drugs, you need to accept the risks that go with it. Don't blame the concert organizers. Don't blame the drug dealer if the stuff isn't pure. It's the end user's fault. They made the choice.

First to Brett, all cool. Sure we don't have to agree and that's cool. As easy as the solution may seem, there are a lot of complexities involved here.

Now to Luperm, YOU ARE RIGHT!!! People need to take personal responsibility and accountability for what they do. Problem is for that age group (basically college age) you still have a lot of immaturity and jaded attitudes.

When I got to eZoo Sunday and the NYPD was turning people away, I did ask why and when the officer told me, sure I was bummed that I couldn't attend the concert but I've understood. Others that appeared college age were told the same thing but they were more snarky about those that died, wanting their money back now, etc. At one point I barked back and said that "hey people died here, as sad as it may be that the concert's not happening at least you are ALIVE, show some damn respect!"

Obviously people shouldn't take drugs but realistically it's getting in there somehow. Another angle would be an "unofficial" area (similar to a smoker's area outside of a bar) where people who feel this incessant need to do this can go somewhere and be closely watched so as not to take too much, have free water nearby. It's an area that obviously the NYPD or security can't "officially" know about but it's somewhere that people can look out for one another, that is if they lack the maturity to look out for themselves.

As easy as it may be to "just say no" and take the music in without putting anything synthetic in your body, people are going to do whatever they insist to do.

But I think for media purposes, and I'm doing this on the FB side, I'm bringing out the POSITIVES of EDM concerts because NO, not EVERYONE is there for "Molly", people are showing up to have a good time. They are getting "high" off the music, the DJ, the light show on stage, the camaraderie and energy of those around them. 99.7% of those folks enter and leave from there incident free (considering you have thousands in attendance, that is a very high number for the positive). The media is NOT reporting that. Good news doesn't "sell" in the ratings book