Today's Classic Hits target demo was listening to Current Hits at what age?

[firepoint525]

I would definitely add "Forget Me Nots" by Patrice Rushen to that list. Many of these, particularly in the early '80s, were not necessarily big "pop" hits, but they were big dance hits back about that time. And many of them still occasionally turn up in specialty programming that primarily airs over the weekends.

 

[John FL]

Firepoint525 brings up some interesting points that got me thinking about a whole bunch of things. We’ve seen more than enough discussions on this particular board reminding us that songs that were once extremely popular don’t assure airplay today on nostalgia formats.

Popular music has always had “fads” or hits in certain years seem to sound alike. About the best way to truly see that is to look at #1 songs in chronological order from 1960-1989. There you can clearly see an overall distinctive sound slowly but surely be replaced with something else that dominates for a while and then something else peaks the interest of music consumers.

There is no denying the disco era was a phenomenon and it produced a very large number of chart toppers but it was also polarizing to those who favored rock. Back in the day, the thinking was you either loved disco or hated it. I also thought there was a third option in that certain listeners wanted some kind of balance with other music as well. Today, there are a number of classic hits formats that take a balanced music approach.

Earlier there was this comment “While I certainly shed no tears over the "death" of disco, I would say that its departure at least briefly left a void on the airwaves.” This poster is also correct. I remember visiting NYC in the early 80's and I believe WKTU was still "Disco 92" but I remember hearing Christopher Cross's "Sailing." I love the song but it was obvious there was not enough disco to go around. But then I started thinking of music tests and the fact that the disco period does represent a time when their core audience was growing up and that music and time has made impressions.

Listeners offer their opinions based on brief audio files they hear. I wonder how much bias or trying to answer what the panelist “thinks” is the correct response takes place. Through PM, I solicited feedback from a knowledgeable and radio-experienced poster concerning a Labor Day countdown I put together. I misspoke a bit about how I utilized a listener panel in that I forgot certain things but I became more aware of how actual tests take place for a real radio scenario. I can appreciate why radio utilizes such testing and the results they bring. But is any system really perfect?

Besides the deeper,more specialized disco hits, artists such as Manilow, Bread, The Carpenters to name a few have had quite a lot of hits but like disco it’s probably taboo to offer any of their music outside of a specialty program. The guy who looks like a football player perhaps actually enjoys disco and/or the softer side of the hits. In casual conversation, he would probably never admit to that. I doubt he would admit to that in a music test. For radio stations, I believe it’s the ratings that decides a lot and there are those who are just better than others in figuring out what songs should be offered and their rotation.

Earlier on, I talked of disco as being music that’s a lot of fun and just makes you feel good. Perhaps, this is a reason a lot of it is found on Saturday nights such as the aforementioned “Forget Me Nots” one of my personal favorites. I go cruises once or twice a year as I will do again at the end of October. Karaoke is usually going on somewhere and disco music usually earns a good deal of play and a wide spectrum of people just get into it and it just makes for a good time.

One of the other posters – Oldies 76 – has often said the right song should be played at the right time. Disco and virtually everything do get those opportunities to shine but this is not an across-the-board practice. You can put me in the camp that music testing does have critical value and importance. But I would hope, some bias has to be weighed in to the responses. I still believe beyond testing, the right company and the right management just know when and how often to feature certain songs. They keep the classic hits format interesting IMHO and I wish more of them existed.

 

[michael hagerty]

One note, JohnJax: In music tests, people register their feelings about songs with a device. They don't discuss the songs out loud. It's anonymous. No one knows whether you just gave "Afternoon Delight" a 1 or a 10.

Firepoint525 brings up some interesting points that got me thinking about a whole bunch of things. We’ve seen more than enough discussions on this particular board reminding us that songs that were once extremely popular don’t assure airplay today on nostalgia formats.

Popular music has always had “fads” or hits in certain years seem to sound alike. About the best way to truly see that is to look at #1 songs in chronological order from 1960-1989. There you can clearly see an overall distinctive sound slowly but surely be replaced with something else that dominates for a while and then something else peaks the interest of music consumers.

There is no denying the disco era was a phenomenon and it produced a very large number of chart toppers but it was also polarizing to those who favored rock. Back in the day, the thinking was you either loved disco or hated it. I also thought there was a third option in that certain listeners wanted some kind of balance with other music as well. Today, there are a number of classic hits formats that take a balanced music approach.

Earlier there was this comment “While I certainly shed no tears over the "death" of disco, I would say that its departure at least briefly left a void on the airwaves.” This poster is also correct. I remember visiting NYC in the early 80's and I believe WKTU was still "Disco 92" but I remember hearing Christopher Cross's "Sailing." I love the song but it was obvious there was not enough disco to go around. But then I started thinking of music tests and the fact that the disco period does represent a time when their core audience was growing up and that music and time has made impressions.

Listeners offer their opinions based on brief audio files they hear. I wonder how much bias or trying to answer what the panelist “thinks” is the correct response takes place. Through PM, I solicited feedback from a knowledgeable and radio-experienced poster concerning a Labor Day countdown I put together. I misspoke a bit about how I utilized a listener panel in that I forgot certain things but I became more aware of how actual tests take place for a real radio scenario. I can appreciate why radio utilizes such testing and the results they bring. But is any system really perfect?

Besides the deeper,more specialized disco hits, artists such as Manilow, Bread, The Carpenters to name a few have had quite a lot of hits but like disco it’s probably taboo to offer any of their music outside of a specialty program. The guy who looks like a football player perhaps actually enjoys disco and/or the softer side of the hits. In casual conversation, he would probably never admit to that. I doubt he would admit to that in a music test. For radio stations, I believe it’s the ratings that decides a lot and there are those who are just better than others in figuring out what songs should be offered and their rotation.

Earlier on, I talked of disco as being music that’s a lot of fun and just makes you feel good. Perhaps, this is a reason a lot of it is found on Saturday nights such as the aforementioned “Forget Me Nots” one of my personal favorites. I go cruises once or twice a year as I will do again at the end of October. Karaoke is usually going on somewhere and disco music usually earns a good deal of play and a wide spectrum of people just get into it and it just makes for a good time.

One of the other posters – Oldies 76 – has often said the right song should be played at the right time. Disco and virtually everything do get those opportunities to shine but this is not an across-the-board practice. You can put me in the camp that music testing does have critical value and importance. But I would hope, some bias has to be weighed in to the responses. I still believe beyond testing, the right company and the right management just know when and how often to feature certain songs. They keep the classic hits format interesting IMHO and I wish more of them existed.

 

[John FL]

Michael, a number of studies I have seen over the years indicate that the average person CAN be manipulated and their opinions influenced. This is not to say music testing is itself flawed. Overall, I'd say there is a lot of integrity with the research and perhaps sampling size too. Perhaps a simple comment from one of the participants before the testing starts about a certain artist or genre or music and if that comment appears to be accepted by others there is something called peer pressure that can surface. And really, I don't believe anonymity means as much as we may think. And also, people are human - not perfect.

The company I worked at promised anonymity in completing employee satisfaction surveys. In those water cooler conversations, just about everyone I know - including me - chose not to be exactly truthful responding to all questions in fear of reprisal and being discovered. A lot rides on the results of music tests. People still have to interpret the results. And some are just better than others in creating a great classic hits product.

 

[oldies76]

a number of studies I have seen over the years indicate that the average person CAN be manipulated and their opinions influenced. This is not to say music testing is itself flawed. Overall, I'd say there is a lot of integrity with the research and perhaps sampling size too .

Why do you think that the same songs re-test successfully everytime? And we hear the same successfully tested songs over and over, all year long? It's because most have been manipulated by the sound of their own favorite stations. People have gotten "used" to their station's sound, by simpling hearing the same songs over and over again and this overtakes their past memory of all the other forgotten songs, that do not get played anymore. So when testing sessions come up, they answer yes or 10's to the songs that are only played on their station, because those are the only ones they CURRENTLY remember and recognize, due to the CURRENT rotation.

I believe, if most of all the other songs that are avoided today, were played from the start (many years ago) then there would be more favorites played today, more variety today, and less frequency of many songs played today (to virtually fit all the others in rotation). In other words, if most of the songs that were played on top 40 radio in their debut years, were played in equal rotation since then and heard today as classics, more people would have embraced them over time and you'd have better test results today on them, instead of just a few hundred. Why do we always hear that radio sucks today?? And that their own personal favorites from the past are never heard? And that's there's too much repetition and not enough variety??

Playing just 10% of the past's charted songs, to me, does not represent what a CLASSIC HITS station should sound like. 50-70% would be more acceptable. Sure, there are some songs you just will never play at drive time (At Seventeen, Feelings, Honey, Close to You, The Way We Were, Afternoon Delight..etc..) but they can be played during off peak hours, when fewer are listening or during weekend specials. Any song is playable today, just play it at the RIGHT TIME.

 

[davideduardo]

Radio testing is not perfect. But it is better than any other way we have to determine what listeners want.

Arbitron is not perfect. But it is the base for much of the $15 billion in radio ad expenditures every year, and it is better than any of the conceivable alternatives.

As to testing, remember that recruiting is "blind" meaning that people who go to a test only know it has something to do with media usage. They don't know the station, and, while they may guess it has to do with music, they are not told that in advance.

Once in the test, they have a dial (usually much like the ones several of the networks use for focus groups with on-screen displays) or a score sheet and they score the songs one by one. They don't have time to chat or even look at their neighbor's score even if they could see it.

Song "hooks" are around 8 seconds long. It's been amply proven than nearly 100% of respondents have scored a song in its first 4 to 6 seconds, so the extra couple of seconds are basically a buffer zone.

There are plenty of ways to mess up a test... not putting all the right songs on, misinterpreting the results, recruiting the wrong people or not rescreening on arrival, and more. But when well done, this is the best way to get a true proportional sample of the people who listen to your station or might listen. Nothing else comes close. And, yes, there are ways to do this via the Internet, and the methodology is comparable... the crucial factor is controlling completion and making sure the recruited person does the actual test.

 

[searadiofreak]

I am coming back into the format. I have always believed there was a difference between "Classic Hits", and "Greatest Hits". With "Classic" leaning a little more rock. Who decides these definitions, I'm not sure.

Howerver, a perfect Classic Hits station today would focus on the 70's, with just the cream of the crop from the late 60's and early to mid 80's. This, done effectively, would bring in a 35-54 demo, with the five years side mostly in the upper end. So in essence, the average age would be not 42, but more like 48. A 48 year old today graduated high school in 1983. But the graduation year is not critical here, it is the years leading up to graduation, in this case 1979-83. Disco is a whole other discussion. However, pop and rock hits from the era would seem to be the core of the library. Please understand, I think earlier 70's tunes are important, and even the best testing late 60's hits. One important point to keep in mind, is many mainstream AC's play 80's tunes, so some of the audience may experience the "burn" of these titles.

So here we are in 2013. Is Classic Hits the new oldies? Or is Greatest Hits the new oldies? Or do we really define the formats specifically? Or is there any concencus? Sorry, lots of questions here.

 

[davideduardo]

I am coming back into the format. I have always believed there was a difference between "Classic Hits", and "Greatest Hits". With "Classic" leaning a little more rock. Who decides these definitions, I'm not sure.

Stations can call themselves anything they want on the air. In fact, many "classic hits" stations use the "oldies" term on the air.

Most format "names" or descriptors used in the industry are the terms employed for sales purposes to identify to agencies and clients the kind of format a station has. Arbitron has developed a set of descriptive terms, such as "Adult Hits" or "Hot Adult Contemporary" and stations select for their Arbitron profile the one that best fits their format. This descriptor is part of the data Arbitron (or, as of today, Nielsen Audio) provides to ad agencies and major advertisers who subscribe.

So here we are in 2013. Is Classic Hits the new oldies? Or is Greatest Hits the new oldies? Or do we really define the formats specifically? Or is there any concencus? Sorry, lots of questions here.

Per the industry definitions... the ones accepted by Arbitron and used by most of the trades... "oldies" is a 60's based format that plays Top 40 hits from that era and surrounding years. "Classic Hits" is 70's based CHR hits.

"Greatest Hits" is a positioning term that can be used by nearly any of the format types... from country to Spanish language AC.