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ok walters
Guest
Totally agreed. The country music of today sounds little like Johnny Cash and Waylon Jennings and George Jones of yesteryear.
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Songs You Remember And Like But Never Get Played
- Thread starter R_F_Burns
- Start date
Totally agreed. The country music of today sounds little like Johnny Cash and Waylon Jennings and George Jones of yesteryear.
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ok walters
Guest
First of all - if they are tired of the music, why do they still listen in such large numbers? You mentioned that they dislike heavy traffic because there is no alternative. But in radio, there IS an alternative - plenty of them. And with McDonalds there are alternatives - plenty of them - yet the sameness at McDonalds has been number one for decades. The "logic" makes plenty of sense - you claim repetition is bad but it sure doesn't seem to be hurting radio or McDonalds, even though there are plenty of alternatives to both.
The problem with the repetition argument is the average length of time people spend listening is short enough where many don't experience the repetition that you claim. If someone only listens in the car on the way to and from work, they may listen 60-90 minutes a day at two different times. That is about 20 songs max a day split into two listening periods, so how much repetition could there be that is "tiring" for the average listener? Very little - 244 million can't be all wrong.
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ok walters
Guest
Got it all figured out I see, except it won't work anywhere except on your MP3 player. I have run small market stations and am now running a top 100 market FM combo, so I don't need to be schooled about small town radio. Of course, everyone is slightly different, but there are still hits (that many like) and stiffs (that few like), so considering that it is pretty easy to see why you only play the hits. We are trying to reach the largest audience possible, and familiarity always wins.
Yep - I have no idea. One of you claims all I do is repeat what David and BigA say, and another claims I have no idea. So I guess none of us has any clue, yet we are the ones running stations and with actual experience but you guys have all of the answers. None of you have an answer as to why radio is doing so well in an age of many choices except to say that radio doesn't know what it is doing. Record revenues and listenership but because we don't play any "lost hits" we "have no idea".
Fire up your MP3/CD player and listen to whatever you want. It is the same choice everyone has everyday, and because we know that we do what we do, even if you don't like it. I would say the ones that have "no idea" are the ones telling radio to change to fit them individually when we our business is to reach the masses.
What is it with you that we can only have ONE reason for doing things? Well, here is another: I got tired of working for egotistical egomaniacs like you who only worship the almighty dollar and who were perfectionists about nearly everything EXCEPT actually PAYING for that perfectionism. I could probably deliver perfectionism, but not for minimum wage.
Rah rah rah. There you go again, quoting everyone else's numbers, and not coming up with anything of your own. If "Big A" and David are the stations, you are just the repeater.
By the way, yesterday, it was 244 million. Now it's down 20 million from yesterday. Told you that radio was in a freefall. You proved it better than I ever could.
Damn your fingers must be RED by now from all that cherry-picking that you have done. I have provided you with fact after fact after fact, yet you dismiss it and accuse me of "ranting." Everything that you asked for here, you got earlier this week. I can drive from here to Little Rock with classic hits or oldies stations almost all the way. I mentioned about half a dozen stations. YOU (not me) chose to focus on only one!
Now you are not only cherry-picking but outright LYING, as well. I know what I posted. You ignored it. Instead of regurgitating tired old facts and figures that I don't give a damn about, how about bringing just ONE of that 244 million, oops make that 224 million, who actually listen to radio, not someone who is still able to make it their job, to this board and have them explain to us what they (still?) like about radio.
Oh, the kids may still listen, but they have competition from their ipads, ipods, social media, video games, iphones, need I go on? And not all of that is providing music. The most common thing I see them carrying is their iphone. They may get music from it, but they are more likely just texting their friends. I carried around a transistor radio as a kid. Bet you wouldn't see THAT now either!
Oh, geeze you little parrot, I debunked that "WNFL" crap earlier this week, and you are still spouting THAT? Oh good grief!
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Avid Listener
Guest
So, I said I wanted a station that wasn't boring, and you reply such a station wouldn't last long. So, are you saying that that radio works best when it's boring? And, my comment about having broad and eclectic tastes wasn't intended to mean that the station had to cover the full depth and breadth of my taste. I only meant that it had a big amount of space to work in.
So now it's back to 244 million. You can't even repeat your parroted stats correctly. How the hell are we supposed to know when you are b.s.-ing us? Oh, yeah, every time you post something, because you can't even get your so-called "facts" straight and end up contradicting yourself. So when the question becomes which ok walters do I believe, the answer is none of them!
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Avid Listener
Guest
I don't care why ratings were invented. My point was that they aren't realistic or accurate.
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Avid Listener
Guest
That's only half accurate. The country music of today THAT GETS PLAYED ON THE RADIO sounds little like Johnny Cash and Waylon Jennings and George Jones of yesteryear. The country music of today being played live in bars and honky-tonks, and on CD players in the dashboards of trucks, and where ever country music fans listen to country music often sounds like Johnny Cash and Waylon Jennings and George Jones of yesteryear. Like the radio "experts" keep telling us, radio isn't about music. In that respect they're right. Radio is not where one goes to hear what modern music really sounds like.
Yeah, the brain-dead, dumbed-down "masses."
Do you ever actually LISTEN to any of your stations? If you did, you would hear the repetition. Okay, so your brain-dead dumbed-down masses want it. But do they want the SAME song FOUR TIMES STRAIGHT? David says they will stay with you through commercials. Will they stay with you for a half-hour's worth of non-stop repeated commercials? Wonder if they billed their advertisers for THAT mistake? Would LOVE to see the bill! Will they stay with you through double-audio? What if they call the station and can't reach anyone?
You can't b.s. me because I have been on both sides. I have worked in radio, and I have been a listener. Or I have tried to be in recent years. But none of this is new. Even as a teenager, I noticed that a station in East Prairie, MO, played the full-length version of songs, while the station in my hometown (in NW TN, just 15 miles or so away, but at least an hour's drive away from me because of the Mississippi River) stuck me with only THEIR custom edits. Apparently the management of my local station thought that radio signals stop at county or state lines.
I never doubted your "business" knowledge. You guys will never realize, what it is to listen to classic hits from a LISTENERS standpoint. And 400 songs does not and will never cut it, repeated weekly.
And if you bother reading past threads either in this topic or others, I said that listeners will get tired of the same ole, after LONG term exposure to the presentation. Listeners have and will always figure this out. So it's in the best interest for a station to change their tune every so often, which includes the playing of some lost-hits every hour, to provide that extra variety and oh-wow, many listeners are looking for. The average listener does not have to hear "Brown Eyed Girl" or any song for the 25th time in a 3 month span. For many, it's a tune out.
And for the 7th time now, you've told me to fire up my iPod instead.
I have been enjoying a little vacation time in the middle of three small markets on the Gulf Coast of FL. I have been listening to roughly 65 radio stations that converge here. Not all at the same time, before someone points that out. Here is the state of radio here. Majority on auto pilot, VT-ed, satellite, lots of dead air, especially surprising is how HORRIBLE WKMX (Enterprise, AL owned by the Radio People) sounds. The market here is over radioed as noted by anyone who reads the NWFL board. Ten years ago this market was actually very good sounding considering all of the signals. Today, it is ten stations with the same general playlist and format. Ten country stations, eight news talkers, four hundred rap/Top40 stations, seven ACs. You have three unique formats on single owner stations - WAAZ - Country Classics and Western (yes no typo); WSBZ - smooth jazz (perfect for the wealthy demo) and to an extent Beach 95.1 (some local/some Tom Kent, but it is a blend of 60s, 70s and 80s.) There is a electronica/dance station on a translator that is programmed by the biggest bar/club on the beach. Out of all of the mass owned stations, there is not anything airing that is unique or non-hits. No cool formats. No risky music. This market is so competitive that these stations cannot afford to take music risks and yet cannot afford to invest in exceptional equipment, production, jingles, etc. It is an auto-pilot world and it sounds that way here. Now, why do I waste your time on all of this? Two reasons: One - the small, single owner operators have to play in a niche that is locally adv based because they cannot get agency buys most of the time and they cannot compete with an eleventh CHR format since they have no throw away options like the big players. Second, while the formats are different, the music playlists are what you would expect. Beach is a good station for MY musical taste because I cannot listen to Top 40 or country today. Beach is 99 percent predictable and known music. They simply would not stay afloat playing unrecognized oldies music. It is hard enough getting and keeping the small, but loyal audience they have. Small town radio is not easy. Trust me, I heard it all this week, even though my heart still loves this market and radio in this market. Listeners, even at 50 plus, are simply NOT as engaged at this point of their lives. BUT, they are the audience that is NOT as likely to use other sources to listen to music, so they stick around until you ( the station) runs them off. Best way to run them off is unknown songs. Second best way? 400 song playlists. Some of the Beach guys are on here (David Nolan, etc.). I am guessing their playlist is 800 max. The format goes more into 80s at night, which is interesting to me. Beach 95.1 and Seabreeze 106.3 jazz are my two favorites because I am OLD. Haha. Why? Because I look for different in a world looking for the same. These stations would love to be the only country or AC station in a market. Not gonna happen here, so they pick formats the big guys cannot generate enough revenue on and run their own race away from the fray and hope to survive! It is indeed interesting to note that these two stations are among the tightest sounding. Final point, the ratings are 1/5 of the average corporate owned stations here. And if anyone is more CAREFUL about their playlists - it is these two. My point is, the little stand alone non-McDonald's radio guys cannot afford to run off even one listener, so they have to be very methodical in their programming and precise in their budget and expenses. They don't have the luxury of making mistakes or playing it unsafe! Maybe some smaller markets can do that, but we are talking sub 200 markets here. My best analogy is these little gems are the old motels on the beach that are kept in pristine condition, but that are skipped in favor of the 30 story stackem and packem condo complexes. Sardines = $$$. Simple as that.
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You're attempting to make fact out of your own personal preference. You say "Listeners get tired....," but you don't have any numbers. No facts. What you're really saying is "I get tired of...." That's all you can speak to factually. And remember, I have the numbers that say otherwise. I have 60 years of studies that say people like what they like. If that means hearing the same songs every hour, every day, over and over, that's what it means. And there are people who do that. Lots of people.
The main problem with playing "lost hits" is they take the place of playing ACTUAL hits. So you're telling us, with no factual basis, that we should replace an actual hit with one of your personal favorites because listeners get tired of hearing the hits. That's basically what you're saying. My response is: Then they shouldn't be listening to a format that's called "Classic hits." What you want is another format. You want eclectic stuff. What you want is MyRadio.com It's not Classic Hits, because it's filled with non-hits that distract the listeners from the kind of entertainment they expect from classic hits. Sure, you'll enjoy it for a day. Then you'll get tired of the repetition of the lost hits we're playing. Then you'll complain about that.
You really haven't worked in radio. You were a board op who never worked at a station that got ratings. You don't know what it's like to actually have success in radio. To see your ideas actually succeed. I don't care what your reasons were for quitting, but don't say your worked in radio, and use that as a basis for anything. Until you can show me a list of stations you programmed, and how your programming ideas made your station #1, it don't mean crap.
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No, it more often sounds like Jason Aldean.
A 55 year old trucker will like Willie and Waylon. But a 30 year old will like Jason.
Like usual, you have no proof.
The ratings are as realistic and accurate as the amount of money stations are willing to spend for them will permit.
Advertisers consider them accurate enough to use them as a base for spending billions of dollars. And that is the whole purpose of having ratings.
I would love to see a playlist of what songs you would play on Perfect 109, if oldies, ok and firepoint did the programming. Maybe 30 songs. Just remember, you have a playlist of like 20,000, so you can't just put the best and best sounding songs all in these two hours, because you would have a crappy couple of hours elsewhere. Create it and let's see who would listen. Just know I have the Eagles, the Beatles, any other band named after an animal or insect, city, state, egotisical person who named their group after themselves or anyone wearing make up, so leave all that off for me. 
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ok walters
Guest
Radio is were you hear the top selling country artists of today whether they sound like Johnny Cash or not - and most of them don't. And since country radio dominates in many areas, it is apparent that they too are playing exactly what the masses want. That is what radio does, and if you want to hear Johnny and Waylon there will be few outlets for that type of format - just like classic hits, the demo is skewing pretty old at this point.
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