CBS all-newsers on AM band: their longer term fate

[radiophiler]

A thread on the NYC board got my thinking: What will eventually happen to the CBS-owned all news stations (or mostly all news stations) that are still on the AM band only, 5 or 10 years down the road? 2 in NYC, one in Philly, Boston, Dallas, Detroit, Los Angeles?

Move to FM and displace one of their music formats?

Become online only?

Nothing ... people will continue to listen on AM because that's the only place it's available.

All news radio as a format will just die off.

Something else.

What do you think?

 

[umfan]

I think they stay the same. FM is very crowded and I see AM making a comeback, of sorts, for talk formats which would include all news. CBS stations in this format are doing well, and I expect them to continue to do so. People still know where to go on the radio dial for news even if it is on AM.

 

[Avid Listener]

I think that radio is a great medium for reporting breaking local stories, but not as good a medium for reporting on slow-developing national and international news stories. I doubt that CBS would invest in reporters to cover breaking local stories, so I doubt that they could put together the kind of news shows that would cause people who wanted news to turn their radios on, not when they could watch TV or log onto the internet. That's why news/talk, which is conversation about the news, works so well on radio.

 

[davideduardo]

I think that radio is a great medium for reporting breaking local stories, but not as good a medium for reporting on slow-developing national and international news stories. I doubt that CBS would invest in reporters to cover breaking local stories, so I doubt that they could put together the kind of news shows that would cause people who wanted news to turn their radios on, not when they could watch TV or log onto the internet. That's why news/talk, which is conversation about the news, works so well on radio.

You are ignoring the fact that all news is a prime format... better than All Talk... in larger markets where huge cume and lower TSL makes for excellent performance.

All news WTOP is the top biller in the nation, and is also the ratings leader. WINS and WCBS in New York are in the top 5 in billings. So is KCBS in San Francisco and WBBM in Chicago. Also look at WWJ in Detroit or almost-all news WBZ in Boston. Then there is billings leader KYW in Philadelphia.

Note that with the exception of WTOP, they are CBS stations and they all have long invested in reporters who cover local stories.

 

[Avid Listener]

You are ignoring the fact that all news is a prime format... better than All Talk... in larger markets where huge cume and lower TSL makes for excellent performance.

And you are ignoring the fact that people will listen to the least objectionable thing on the air when the only choice they have is the radio. "Excellence" in providing a market for peddling goods is a lot different from actually being "excellent".

 

[TheBigA]

And you are ignoring the fact that people will listen to the least objectionable thing on the air when the only choice they have is the radio. "Excellence" in providing a market for peddling goods is a lot different from actually being "excellent".

How does one judge "excellence" with product? How about awards? These station have tons of them. Then again, so does NPR. We know how you feel about them.

Maybe you want commercial stations to do long form news programming like NPR. Some stations do. But truthfully, that kind of radio went away in the 70s.

 

[brettbutlerisok]

All news will stick around in the biggest cities while smaller markets will have news/talk. I think within 10 years FM will be a matter of survival for both formats. People under thirty have never listened to AM, many never once. People under forty and over thirty know about it mostly from their parents, many of them pick up the habit of listening to all news AMers, the younger people are not.

To those who run AM news and or talk stations, don't waste a great FM signal on your simulcast. One that covers the metro is all you need, then educate the listeners. Have the hosts talk about "50,000 watts" on the am side use terms like "flamethrower". A person who found the station on FM and is a hooked listener will start using the AM for short trips away from town.

 

[TheBigA]

educate the listeners. Have the hosts talk about "50,000 watts" on the am side use terms like "flamethrower". A person who found the station on FM and is a hooked listener will start using the AM for short trips away from town.

"Educate the listeners?" Really? Have you tried to "educate" someone under 40 about AM radio? Do you think using 1950s terminology will educate someone? Come on.

In Washington DC, the #1 web site for local news isn't the Washington Post. It isn't run by any of the TV stations. It's run by the local all news radio station. WTOP.com is also beating all the national news sites in town.

Radio stations already know where the future is. It's not AM or FM. It's online and mobile. They're already there. People need to be educated that radio isn't just in the car anymore.

 

[RedStateTalkRadio]

Radio stations already know where the future is. It's not AM or FM. It's online and mobile. They're already there. People need to be educated that radio isn't just in the car anymore.

Bingo! Give the man a cigar.

 

[Avid Listener]

You are ignoring the fact that all news is a prime format... better than All Talk... in larger markets where huge cume and lower TSL makes for excellent performance.

And you are ignoring two key words in the launch post and title of what this thread is about: longer term. The discussion is about what will happen in the future, and as usual, you talk about where it is today.

Time passes. Things change.

 

[davideduardo]

And you are ignoring two key words in the launch post and title of what this thread is about: longer term. The discussion is about what will happen in the future, and as usual, you talk about where it is today.

Time passes. Things change.

For the immediate future, those stations are quite secure. There erosion in the younger demos is so gradual as to be half a decade out in the future. By that time, new media distribution of the same content will supplant the AM delivery model.

It's not about AM or FM... it's about content distribution... which can be changed at will today.

 

[Small Market Guy]

A thread on the NYC board got my thinking: What will eventually happen to the CBS-owned all news stations (or mostly all news stations) that are still on the AM band only, 5 or 10 years down the road? 2 in NYC, one in Philly, Boston, Dallas, Detroit, Los Angeles?

5 or 10 years isn't a long time.

Move to FM and displace one of their music formats?

Maybe one of two of them might do this if CBS has an underperfoming FM.

Become online only?

Of course not. Anyone who thinks that online broadcasting is anywhere NEAR being a replacement for radio is trying to sell you something or engaging in massive wishful thinking.

Nothing ... people will continue to listen on AM because that's the only place it's available.

For the majority of them, yes.

All news radio as a format will just die off.

Not anytime soon.

 

[davideduardo]

Maybe one of two of them might do this if CBS has an underperfoming FM.

They already did this in San Francisco and Chicago; the AM has a simulcast partner.

Of course not. Anyone who thinks that online broadcasting is anywhere NEAR being a replacement for radio is trying to sell you something or engaging in massive wishful thinking.

We are not talking about "online broadcasting" vs "OTA broadcasting". We are talking about the fact that listeners want entertainment delivered in a new and different manner. The content simply adds the new platform.

 

[Small Market Guy]

We are not talking about "online broadcasting" vs "OTA broadcasting". We are talking about the fact that listeners want entertainment delivered in a new and different manner. The content simply adds the new platform.

I assume "online only" in the original question means "online broadcasting vs. OTA broadcating". In which case, the time frame is much longer than 5-10 years. It's more like 70 years. Most of us will be long dead before the Internet is a viable replacement for radio.

 

[brettbutlerisok]

"Educate the listeners?" Really? Have you tried to "educate" someone under 40 about AM radio? Do you think using 1950s terminology will educate someone? Come on.

In Washington DC, the #1 web site for local news isn't the Washington Post. It isn't run by any of the TV stations. It's run by the local all news radio station. WTOP.com is also beating all the national news sites in town.

Radio stations already know where the future is. It's not AM or FM. It's online and mobile. They're already there. People need to be educated that radio isn't just in the car anymore.

Yes I have tried to educate the young about AM radio. It is quite simple really. (To young person) That thing you want to listen to is on AM, push the band button and make the screen say "680" and you will hear the sports game. Pretty much only works for sports.

I bring up the education about the range of the AM stations because I think it is a folly for radio companies to waste big FM signals on news and/or talk. Anyone who finds a news and/or talk station on FM can figure out to try that other station they keep talking about if they drive the car somewhere they can't get the signal. It could be another FM like with WTOP or a blowtorch like KCBS. Net' presence has nothing to do with stations continuing to exist on AM or not.

BTW WTOP is a rare case. 103.5 seems to cover the populated areas better than 1500 ever did. This is not the case with most CBS news stations.

 

[Small Market Guy]

I bring up the education about the range of the AM stations because I think it is a folly for radio companies to waste big FM signals on news and/or talk.

It's usually the last thing they try after every music format fails.

 

[davideduardo]

BTW WTOP is a rare case. 103.5 seems to cover the populated areas better than 1500 ever did. This is not the case with most CBS news stations.

There are a number of situations where moving or simulcasting an AM news/talk on FM makes sense.

First, where the AM does not cover the market well. You mention WTOP, and DC is a market without a single AM that fully covers the market. The full move to FM not only improved coverage, but also improved the station's performance in the under-55 demos.

Another similar example is KTAR in Phoenix, which had a good but not great AM signal. In fact, nobody there has a great AM signal. So the move to FM not only increased ratings, it really made a difference in the 25-54 demos.

In other cases, such as Cox stations in Jacksonville, Atlanta and Dayton, the FM may have supplemented the AM in coverage but the real issue was improving the 25-54 numbers. Yes, Atlanta is another market with no true full-market signal, and Dayton and Jacksonville had night coverage issues... but the real issue was 25-54 in 6 AM to Midnight, not nights. And they got great results.

The problem with nearly every AM in the rated markets is that they don't cover the whole market day and night. Add in the fact that AM is very old school to under-45's and the preservation of revenue dictates moving to FM or adding a simulcast.

 

[NewsStud]

There are a number of situations where moving or simulcasting an AM news/talk on FM makes sense.

And, I think David's point can be taken one step further: New York City is VERY unique when it comes to AM Radio. It's unique in that it has some of the largest concentration of powerful AM signals. It's unique in that the metro are has a heritage with these signals, especially for a station like WCBS.

This is bizarre when considering the modern convention that younger people won't listen to AM radio (except for maybe sports). There are still people in their 30's and 40's listening to WCBS and WINS on AM for the 'need to know" information. I would argue these stations, due to their format longevity and the non-difficulty of listening to these specific AM signals, are part of the fabric of the NYC metro.

Turning on these stations to get a quick dose of news, traffic, weather, stocks and sports is akin to turning on the faucet in your bathroom sink and getting water. Everybody in the house knows where the faucet is. You don't need to move the faucet to the family room next to the xBox just so your teenager can find it... even though your teenager most of the time isn't planning on using it.

 

[brettbutlerisok]

In other cases, such as Cox stations in Jacksonville, Atlanta and Dayton, the FM may have supplemented the AM in coverage but the real issue was improving the 25-54 numbers. Yes, Atlanta is another market with no true full-market signal, and Dayton and Jacksonville had night coverage issues... but the real issue was 25-54 in 6 AM to Midnight, not nights. And they got great results.

The problem with nearly every AM in the rated markets is that they don't cover the whole market day and night. Add in the fact that AM is very old school to under-45's and the preservation of revenue dictates moving to FM or adding a simulcast.

You're right, I too think the only way to secure the younger demos is with FM, I suppose I was a little myopic being here in California thinking about KFSO, KCBS, KGO, KFI, KMJ and so on and so on. It seems that every big AM station covers it's metro and then some, around here. I really did not consider the possibility of the AM station having problems covering the metro area.

 

[Avid Listener]

Turning on these stations to get a quick dose of news, traffic, weather, stocks and sports is akin to turning on the faucet in your bathroom sink and getting water. Everybody in the house knows where the faucet is. You don't need to move the faucet to the family room next to the xBox just so your teenager can find it... even though your teenager most of the time isn't planning on using it.

Not everyone in the house knows that the radios even have a AM band setting, and even if they do, not everyone knows which AM station has news, which one has sports talk, and which ones have brokered "dollar-a-holler" preachers.

I know where the button to switch my car radio to AM is located. Care to explain to me where the radio tells me which frequency has to be tuned in to hear news, other than just surfing around the dial?