You DO realize that Modesto is outside of the service contour of KNCI, right?
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
You DO realize that Modesto is outside of the service contour of KNCI, right?
D
diymedia
Guest
My cards are on the table, friend. What's in your hand beyond a good bluff?
From what I understand....yes....
No cards...it's not a game.....just real life.
Therefore, at that distance from the transmitter there really should not be co-channel splatter (unless of course, the IBOC is on
)Therefore, at that distance from the transmitter there really should not be co-channel splatter (unless of course, the IBOC is on
It's not distance from the transmitter....it's protected contours. So let's start with where the person receiving is standing?
Heck, we could listen to stations from East Coast to the West Coast if we knocked all the interfering stations off the air....on-channel and co-channel.
How far does one expect to receive KGIG?
KGIG should be received with clear reception in their contour. Its also clear that you can easily receive KNCI in the same region. However, the 50kw signal should not be destroying a local signal to that extent.
A lot of coulda's and shoulda's.
So where is the person receiving KGIG standing/driving while hearing interference from KBIG?
Salida? W. Modesto? Keyes, Turlock?
Its not stated in the video. However, I think most people would be in agreement that the interference caused by KNCI is rather excessive for being in the "fringe" of the contour.
Maybe it is....but, again, they are not protected at that level.
The point is, IBOC broadcasting takes up the lower AND upper channel next to the station that is actually transmitting the signal. Its a waste of bandwidth if you asked me.
That's how IBOC sounds like, I though it like Normal Static
D
diymedia
Guest
Well, if you refuse to acknowledge the substantive dose of reality I've offered then I think we're done here. "The only winning move is not to play." Incidentally, the majority of licensed U.S. broadcasters happen to agree.
Not to stir this proverbial pot once again, but I looked into the details of the scenario I described. KGIG first aired in 2005, which I assume was before KNCI turned on their IBOC broadcasting flamethrower. Before IBOC, it was easy for two radio stations to co-exist next to each other on adjacent frequencies. However, IBOC demands further spacing due to the splatter that it causes. I'm not trying to defend KGIG radio at all. In fact, i'm on the side of KNCI radio as they were there first and have every right to broadcast to their full capacity. In a situation where you are within the 60dbu contour for a radio station, you can very well expect a high level of splatter on adjacent frequencies. I'm just saying, there would not be a problem with KGIG being located directly next to KNCI on the dial if it was not for HD, as they are not in the 60dbu contour where a weaker signal is expected.
Near my location, there are two FM stations that do not co-exist well due to the use of HD. One station utilizes a power of 50 kilowatts with IBOC with another station on an adjacent frequency with 7kw and no HD. The smaller station does well in its COL, but when entering the territory of the more powerful HD signal, it's reduced to scatter.
I do perhaps have a better example of this phenomenon. KMCQ 104.5 in Seattle, Washington, and KMNT 104.3 in Centrailia, Washington (located about 50 miles south of the Seattle transmitters as the crow flies). Both stations can both be easily distinguished from one another in the overlap area where one might expect harmful interference. I have personally only experienced interference when you get too close to the transmission centre of either station (or too far out of range to expect a clear signal). If KMCQ Seattle were utilizing IBOC technology, i'm betting the KMNT signal would be rendered unlistenable outside of the 60dbu. Interestingly, KMNT utilizes an HD radio system at a much lower power (which seems to cause problems for the more powerful KMCQ signal inside the 60dbu).
The point is: HD radio takes up more space, and sometimes IBOC signals do not live harmoniously with other signals on adjacent frequencies. I'm clearly no expert, but I think most people would agree that there are a lot of bugs involved with using IBOC that need to be addressed for the sanctity of the listeners.
Last edited:
But KGIG is not the only one. Possibly an even more serious example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLTWihy5zvc
And not to be outdone, here's the interference on the other side:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8LSIPe2ZnA
In this case both stations are running HD and the result is that about 1/2 million people are deprived of a good signal so that HD listening (which may at times reach double-digits) is possible. Both of these videos were taken within the protected contour of the station being listened to.
Dave B.
You've posted this before....and apparently didn't like the answer.
Auburn is barely within the protected contour....and with someone driving around, I imagine that they were on the wrong side of the line.
By the street/exit signs I can see that you are leaving the protected contour area of KQEI.
Not quite.
Better yet....here is something...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/transmittersites/673855259342791
People actually saying good things about AM HD! Can't let that stand, now can we?
I always thought FM IBOC sideband sounded like normal static ..On AM I can tell
You mean quotes like this:
"The happiest ending is shutting IBOC off and your dial neighbors thanking you."
Sorry - I didn't see Wimmmex on here before so didn't know you'd seen it. But for the record that video (Golden Chain Highway to Elm St. to I-80) is several miles inside the FCC's "protected contour" line. That video is now over a year old, and since then we've received reception reports from several other areas much closer to the KVMR transmitter, with the reason for interference verified on a spectrum analyzer. Our other neighbor on the dial (KCAI, licensed to Lodi) is actually much stronger than KQEI but they do not run HD and cause no interference whatsoever. Gee - is that a coincidence?
You can't tell from the video but the hills straight ahead are home to the KVMR transmitter. That is, the signal is line-of-sight to all of KQEI's coverage area. I took that video as an afterthought while driving up the hill, but the interference occurs pretty much everywhere in Sacramento except for about 7 miles right around the KQEI transmitter site. Needless to say, 89.5 is quite strong throughout Sacramento. So for the most part the upper sideband of KQEI's HD is useless throughout the market, and their HD reception is sketchy at best. KVMR's HD coverage is even worse, with an analog signal on both sides of our main channel. There are CB radio operators with a larger audience than our HD-2.
Even if you ignore the "protected contour" concept (which I don't) the end result is still about 1/2 million people deprived of a quality FM signal while maybe a dozen receive reliable HD.
Dave B.
That is reason enough (in my opinion) to put an end to this IBOC business. I know there are a lot of people who refuse to give up on HD, but there are too many things wrong with it. I could understand why we should try to keep pushing forward to integrate HD radio into the market if it really DID have a good use. However, these HD-2 and HD-3 signals really are nothing worth listening to from what I have seen.
- Status