Westwood One adds new 24/7 Good Time Oldies format to replace Scott Shannon's TOC

[TheBigA]

So since summer 2012, we have NOT had a full-time MAINSTREAM (corporate-owned) classic hits station in Nashville.

So why are you angry at me?

 

[John Gallagher]

I didn't mean to start a war with the question about LOST hits.

 

[TheFonz]

Of course WOGL has all of the number 1 hits back to 1960 - but do they have number 15 from 1960? Nope.

I would be surprised if they play "Ally Oop" (#1 1960)

 

[oldies76]

So payphones are gone why? Not enough people were using them - just like not enough people listening to radio stations with big playlists. You are citing things that happened at stations 25 years ago and on smaller stations like they apply to today's corporate big signal radio when they don't. Of course WOGL has all of the number 1 hits back to 1960 - but do they have number 15 from 1960? Nope.

Sure, they have the seven #15 hits from 1960. They may choose not to play them, but they are there.
Considering you are dealing with The Ventures, Johnny & the Hurricanes, Jackie Wilson (twice) and Fats Domino among others, it's in their library. Library and playlists are two different enchiladas.

 

[oldies76]

I would be surprised if they play "Alley Oop" (#1 1960)

They actually did that weekend, since it was in alpha order.

 

[Avid Listener]

Yeah, but if the music is not right, all the other ingredients won't make a smidgen of difference.

And if all the other ingredients aren't right, then the music won't make a smidgen of difference.

And even if the music and all of the other ingredients are right, if there is a strong competitor whose music and other ingredients are also right, the station is going to have really big problems.

And, if there are no really strong competitors, then the music and all the other ingredients can be wrong, but the station will still succeed.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king!

 

[oldies76]

The point is: It ISN'T successful. Just because it's on the air doesn't mean it's a success. I've heard they're in big money trouble.

The I-25 radio network cannot be in trouble if they have interest in acquiring another FM frequency in Colorado. Where did you hear this?

 

[Avid Listener]

I actually like the Jack-FM business model, but not for the reasons that you might think. That oldies station that I voice-tracked over 20 years ago was basically the business model for a Jack-FM. We couldn't take requests; we "played what we wanted" (at least what MANAGEMENT wanted), so I never solicited requests. We couldn't play them, anyway, even if we wanted to. (I always felt bad about it when someone called long distance from out of town, even out of state, and all they succeeded in doing was running up their own phone bill.)

The Jack-FM stations are about the only ones out there that are intellectually honest with their listeners. Like I said, we were "playing what we wanted" and "not taking requests" 20+ years ago. The Jack-FM concept is just now catching up to that.

My problem isn't with the various Jack, Bob, Bill, or Fred formats. It was with the ludicrous idea that a station, ANY station, could do a format switch that chased away most of their listeners, and then expected new listeners to somehow magically find them without any sort of promotion or marketing that let potential listeners know what the new format offered.

 

[Avid Listener]

So now it has become a joke? You wanted a debate and then play games? Nice.

If you knew the punchline about the golfer and the two "gotchas", you'd understand how only two surprise semi-hits a day could make a difference.

And I didn't ask for a debate. I asked for someone to provide supporting information about a position. You didn't provide information, you mocked my question.

 

[oldies76]

"Wow Firepoint, you are on FIRE this morning" would be cheerleading.

No it is not. I was simply stating that because of his series of morning posts took me by surprise as, Wow!
It's not cheerleading, it's an observation in which it's contents I agree with. Simple as that.

 

[TheBigA]

The I-25 radio network cannot be in trouble if they have interest in acquiring another FM frequency in Colorado. Where did you hear this?

We're talking about Hippie in Nashville.

 

[oldies76]

I gather that Oldies76 is very passionate about his radio listening. He may actually want to put on a low-power station playing cool tuneage. I have no desire to do that. I just play my own tunes. I believe that he told me that he was in radio about when I was, on another thread.

I definitely prefer radio the way it was.....and you are correct about a low power station of sort. Obviously money is the obstacle. Right now, it's just in thought. And yes, I was in radio from 1987 to 1993, about half your stint. Since being a Contemp Christian station, the closest I ever got to playing classic hits were two Christian songs by Debbie Boone and Amy Grant!

 

[oldies76]

Songs from the 60s are not too old to play.

I agree here, but are you sure about the 60's? David, Big A and Mr. Hagerty have generally said otherwise.

Even if a lower power station was ever put up, I certainly would feature many 60's, even some key 50's, mixed with 70's and 80's, a true classic hits / oldies format.

 

[TheBigA]

I agree here, but are you sure about the 60's? David, Big A and Mr. Hagerty have generally said otherwise.

Depends on your goal. If you're running a Part 15 as a hobby, knowing it won't make money, you can do whatever you want. There's a guy in Chicago who does that.

 

[Avid Listener]

I agree here, but are you sure about the 60's? David, Big A and Mr. Hagerty have generally said otherwise.

Even if a lower power station was ever put up, I certainly would feature many 60's, even some key 50's, mixed with 70's and 80's, a true classic hits / oldies format.

The reason that the suits nix songs from the 60's is that they still subscribe to a premise that simply cannot survive being run through a "common sense" filter. They labor under the assumption that the only reason why people listen to older music on the radio is nostalgia. They describe listeners as bored housewives who want to hear the song that was playing on the radio when they got, uh, well, to put it delicately, you know, "yada-yada" for the first time. They cannot accept the premise that people simply like the sound of certain genres of music, regardless of the era. Anyone who liked Led Zeppelin's songs from the 70's would no doubt also like their songs from the 60's. Anyone who liked Robin Trower from the 70's would probably like Jimi Hendrix from the 60's. Then again, chances are that not many people today would relish hearing Frankie Avalon or Fabian from the early 60's. Now, they claim that "testing" proves what they say, but testing isn't all that exact of a science.

I would suggest that some of the most important factors in what you select to play has to be what the competition in your market is playing, and what the population demographics are. If you're fighting against an oldies station with good ratings, and are attempting to use classic hits to counter it, sprinkling in more songs from the late 60's would probably be a good, tactical move. On the other hand, if the only oldies station in town is languishing at the bottom of the ratings, while there's a powerful classic rock station dominating, then you might want to pick a different playlist to compete.

 

[TheBigA]

I would suggest that some of the most important factors in what you select to play has to be what the competition in your market is playing, and what the population demographics are.

This may seem like a foreign idea here, but there's more to running a radio station than the programming. The suits, as you call them, don't care about the programming. They care about the ADVERTISING. So truthfully, if you can demonstrate how they can make more money by playing deep cuts from the 60s, the suits will be very happy. But that's next to impossible in PPM markets. The programming is the means to the end, not the end in itself. At least that's the case in commercial radio.

On the other hand, I know a guy named Felix Hernandez who's made a great living for a very long time playing classic R&B from the 60s in the non-commercial world. He even holds events in theaters where people come, listen to music, and dance in the style of Alan Freed. You can do a lot more when you get the PEOPLE to pay directly for the music, rather than going to advertisers. But there's that element of risk.

 

[davideduardo]

Now, they claim that "testing" proves what they say, but testing isn't all that exact of a science.

Music testing is a very exact and precise science.

Of course, you have to understand that statistics is the only science where "error" is not a dirty word.

Any time you use a small sample to estimate the behaviour of a larger group, there is a margin of error. The size of the error is determined mathematically based principally on the sample size and any subset stratifications.

Businesses that use statistics will find a margin of error that is appropriate and acceptable while maintaining reasonable costs. A perfect sample is 100% of the people in the group you study, and this is called a census. It is very accurate, but unaffordable which is the reason why even the US Government can only afford one ever 10 years. In radio, however, errors of a few percent are not particularly critical so very small samples can be used with almost total reliabiltiy.

Properly designed and recruited, a sample of 100 people will accurately measure the commonalities in music tastes for a station with a cume of 2,000,000. And this has been proven over and over again by replication studies where separate groups of the same size yield functionally identical results. While multiple groups might find isolated non-consensus scores by a tiny percentage of people, the averages are static for the overall test.

This is no different than the kind of research nearly all consumer goods producers do to look at brand preferences and perceptions. They use very very small samples, but are thus able to do nearly ongoing research to spot consumer trends. A report that you can Google-verify says that over $11 billion is spent every year on consumer research in the US alone; companies would not do this if the data was not accurate and actionable.

 

[GeneSavage]

Anybody care to tell me what the past 26-pages of a food fight has to do with Westwood One, "Good Time Oldies," or Jim Zippo coming back to national radio?!?

Not that anybody cares what I think, but in my opinion most of this should have been moved to "Take It Outside" a long time ago.

We have a GREAT new Classic Hits format coming to a market near you, and all you can do is talk about every OTHER oldies station under the sun, and songs you can't possibly know whether or not Good Time Oldies will play because IT'S NOT ON YET.

Go start your own thread if you want to do that; some of us are happy about getting Zippo back!!!

 

[John Gallagher]

Zippo's been around on KLUV for awhile. He's on Facebook as is his lovely bride, Lori. I'm a former radio guy that loves having the right songs in my library for my wedding and event clients. I finished a nice bowl of popcorn through the "food fight." LOL.

 

[ok walters]

And if all the other ingredients aren't right, then the music won't make a smidgen of difference.

And even if the music and all of the other ingredients are right, if there is a strong competitor whose music and other ingredients are also right, the station is going to have really big problems.

And, if there are no really strong competitors, then the music and all the other ingredients can be wrong, but the station will still succeed.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king!

Please tell us where this magical land of "no really strong competitors" is. Are there more than 50 people in the listening area of this land of wonder? Wow - nice post - pretty amazing with only one eye.