Tom Leykis' online show outdrawing Limbaugh and Hannity in Los Angeles

[Avid Listener]

Weren't you just kvetching a little while ago that modern AM radios sound lousy? Oh, I keep forgetting, you never wrote anything you wrote, even when it's right there in front of your face.

I complained that AM radio sounds like crap. I didn't limit my complaint to "modern". I simply said that all AM radio reception sounds like crap. In other posts, in other threads, I also mentioned that the content on AM radio stations that I have encountered was also pretty bad.

What I never said, ever, was that I wanted anyone, anywhere, to spend any time or effort attempting to improve the quality of Amplitude Modulation radio. The crappy sound of AM radio is one of those things in life that is what it is. What earthly benefit would there be to somehow improving the sound of AM radio from crappy to semi-crappy? There are so many, many other things that could be done that are far more important and/or beneficial to society. If anything, perhaps someone might come up with some program content to put on AM that wouldn't be affected by the crappy sound.

85 line screen halftones printed on cheap newsprint are crappy pictures, but they're adequate for newspapers. There's no need to improve the print quality of newspapers. It sucks, but it's adequate for the purposes newspapers serve. In the same manner, there's no need to improve the sound quality of AM radio. It sucks, but it's adequate for sports play-by-play, talks shows, and foreign language broadcasts for visitors to the US from third world countries.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I complained that AM radio sounds like crap. I didn't limit my complaint to "modern". I simply said that all AM radio reception sounds like crap.

Not factual, my friend. The AM system IS capable of sparkling, wonderful sound. But today we have allowed too many stations onto the same frequencies and they cause damage to each other. AM radio reception is more affected by spark-plugs on automobile engines, poorly designed and maintained transformers hanging on power poles in your neighborhood, too many electric arc welders in a body shop too close to your receiving site.

In theory FM can reject some of those interference noises, but in practical applications the much-too-cheap-and-skimpy FM receivers of today tend to be not much better if any better than using AM.

To make room for too many AM stations, rules were put in place in the last 20 or so years that mandate AM stations to do so some destruction to their audio so that the transmitter output will not do as much damage to the signal of other AM stations trying to share a stage that is much too small.

Go back to circa 1960 and there were some obsessive/compulsive disorder broadcast engineers who were dumping audion into the airwaves that had the quality of a fine wine.

Managed with restraint and dignity, the AM signal was a dynamic, full-fidelity way to deliver sound.... particularly to receivers close to the transmitting tower.

 

[boombox4]

there's no need to improve the sound quality of AM radio. It sucks, but it's adequate for sports play-by-play, talks shows, and foreign language broadcasts for visitors to the US from third world countries.

Those foreign language broadcasts on AM radio are not for "third world visitors". They are people who live here, and many of them are citizens.

 

[boombox4]

That's strange. I haven't seen a car radio that didn't include the AM band. Has anyone seen a car radio that didn't include the AM band?

I was referring to AM-only car radios with the speaker in the dashboard. They generally didn't sound much different than a tabletop radio.

I've heard car stereos with decent sounding AM sections. FM only sounds better because of the wider bandwidth allowed, and because it has stereo. AM radios have a filter in the IF stage that limits the amount of bandwidth to reduce interference.

This is why when you play your Old Time Radio on your stereo, they sound different from when you hear them on the AM band. Your home stereo doesn't lop off the top end to reduce interference.

 

[Avid Listener]

Not factual, my friend. The AM system IS capable of sparkling, wonderful sound. But today we have allowed too many stations onto the same frequencies and they cause damage to each other. AM radio reception is more affected by spark-plugs on automobile engines, poorly designed and maintained transformers hanging on power poles in your neighborhood, too many electric arc welders in a body shop too close to your receiving site.

In theory FM can reject some of those interference noises, but in practical applications the much-too-cheap-and-skimpy FM receivers of today tend to be not much better if any better than using AM.

To make room for too many AM stations, rules were put in place in the last 20 or so years that mandate AM stations to do so some destruction to their audio so that the transmitter output will not do as much damage to the signal of other AM stations trying to share a stage that is much too small.

Go back to circa 1960 and there were some obsessive/compulsive disorder broadcast engineers who were dumping audion into the airwaves that had the quality of a fine wine.

Managed with restraint and dignity, the AM signal was a dynamic, full-fidelity way to deliver sound.... particularly to receivers close to the transmitting tower.

No disagreement. "In theory", "capable", "Go back to 1960", all of those phrases make the difference. I'm talking about the situation as it is, not as it could be and not as it used to be.

I was referring to AM-only car radios with the speaker in the dashboard. They generally didn't sound much different than a tabletop radio.

I've heard car stereos with decent sounding AM sections. FM only sounds better because of the wider bandwidth allowed, and because it has stereo. AM radios have a filter in the IF stage that limits the amount of bandwidth to reduce interference.

This is why when you play your Old Time Radio on your stereo, they sound different from when you hear them on the AM band. Your home stereo doesn't lop off the top end to reduce interference.

Again, I don't care why AM isn't living up to some theoretical potential for quality. I'm only referring to how it actually is at this time.

 

[JeffM]

I know AL isn't big on facts, but as an old time radio buff, let me throw a few in. Many of the old time shows on CDS have had their sound extensively cleaned up using modern technology. Bing Crosby was THE pioneer in using magnetic tape (an invention we seized from Adolf's boys) in radio after WW II; and by the 50's, a number of network shows were produced on tape (Suspense, Yours Truly-Johnny Dollar, Frontier Gentleman, etc.) Where the tapes still exist (not erased by network penny-pinchers), they have excellent, near-contemporary sound quality.

But most shows were recorded on ET's (electrical transcriptions,) huge phonograph records which had only about the same audio quality as 78 rpm shellac discs. Over the years, tapes made from such discs, mainly by collectors, were swapped and re-dubbed on amateur equipment and suffered from quality loss and tape speed variations. The chimes on NBC shows have been a blessing to modern engineers, by properly adjusting the pitch and speed so the chimes (notes G, E, C) are back on the right pitches, the rest of the show is then at the proper speed.

The crackle of worn old transcriptions can still be a problem, even a little embarrassing as with Wyllis Cooper's great horror series Quiet, Please; when announcer/lead actor Ernest Chappell reads the opening, you hear "Quiet, please..." (CRACKLE-CRACKLE-CRACKLE) "Quiet, please." (CRACKLE-CRACKLE-CRACKLE.) You realize that when it was broadcast live, those long pauses were dead silence, and the punch it must have had.

So it's in large part due to today's tech that yesteryear's radio shows sound so good now. And believe me, that's no complaint.

 

[TheBigA]

Where the tapes still exist (not erased by network penny-pinchers), they have excellent, near-contemporary sound quality.

Keep in mind that the old radio network shows were owned by the advertisers, not the networks. In fact the networks have to license the re-use of shows that they originally aired. So the original transcriptions were saved by the advertising agencies, and they ultimately sold them to the various companies that offer them today for consumer purchase. The radio networks (CBS and NBC) were companies that also owned record labels (Columbia and RCA), so they had recording technology available to them from the 1920s. It was a matter of choice and contract. NBC's battle with Crosby was a contract issue, not technology.

 

[JeffM]

Keep in mind that the old radio network shows were owned by the advertisers, not the networks. In fact the networks have to license the re-use of shows that they originally aired. So the original transcriptions were saved by the advertising agencies, and they ultimately sold them to the various companies that offer them today for consumer purchase. The radio networks (CBS and NBC) were companies that also owned record labels (Columbia and RCA), so they had recording technology available to them from the 1920s. It was a matter of choice and contract. NBC's battle with Crosby was a contract issue, not technology.

Again, far from factual. True, many shows were owned by sponsors and agencies; some sponsors kept them (Johnson's Wax with Fibber McGee and Molly, for example) while others destroyed them (Procter & Gamble with Vic and Sade, others.) Other shows were controlled by their creators (Lights Out, Arch Oboler; Mr. District Attorney and Gangbusters, Phillips H. Lord.) Still others were/are owned by the networks (the three CBS shows I mentioned for example) with time sold by the network on a spot basis. Bing Crosby's issues with NBC and Kraft Cheese were both contract and technologically related. Crosby demanded to tape his shows in advance, NBC and Kraft insisted on live broadcasts or not at all. CBS wanted Crosby but was also leery of the taping issue, so Crosby ended up approaching the much smaller ABC, which both wanted and needed a star of his caliber.

The rights issue apart, many old radio shows exist only because transcriptions were rescued from the trash or outright swiped by network or station personnel; or ended up being stored at end-of-the-line radio stations like in Alaska.

 

[TheBigA]

Again, far from factual.

Not really. Your post pretty much repeats what I said. The networks were not the repository for the masters, thus they're not to blame if the tapes or discs were destroyed. The only masters I'm aware of that were destroyed by networks were video.

In the case of CBS, a lot of their archives became the foundation for what was to become the Museum of TV and Radio in NYC. So in their case, I know that their masters were not destroyed.

The rights issue apart, many old radio shows exist only because transcriptions were rescued from the trash or outright swiped by network or station personnel; or ended up being stored at end-of-the-line radio stations like in Alaska.

When that happens, it becomes a legal ownership issue. In the music business, masters of radio performances have been rescued from the trash or similar stories, but the courts have rules that the estates are still due royalties on any records. I'm sure the contracts for radio performers are equally complete. So while some masters may be in private possession, they most likely can't be sold for profit without clearance from someone, such as AFTRA.

 

[JeffM]

I also said the rights issue was separate. Since the sixties, collector/dealers have sold old radio shows on tape or other media, and many radio stations, both commercial and non-commercial, have rebroadcast shows with or without clearances. Trading among collectors has generally been tolerated, though rebroadcasts have occasionally been challenged by the owners of characters such as the Lone Ranger. Many broadcasts are considered to be in the public domain.

The concept of residuals did not really begin until the TV era, and as far as I know, neither actors nor their estates generally receive residuals from the reissues of radio shows on CD or for broadcast, though the owners of copyrighted characters like Superman probably do.