The old KRTH

[Thomps2525]

You sound bitter. Obviously you had no interest in getting a lower mortgage rate, improving your prostate health or learning which blue-chip stock will grow by 200% in the next year. KABC, KRLA and (formerly) KFWB have run infomercials every weekend and I know of no one who listens. Do the stations receive a set amount of money for these infomercials or is the fee based on the number of listeners or responses?

 

[TheBigA]

KABC, KRLA and (formerly) KFWB have run infomercials every weekend and I know of no one who listens.

Notice that KFI is not among those stations. Why? Because they have advertisers. If you don't have advertisers, you have to fill the inventory with something. Those of you who have done retail know that every square foot must produce a certain amount of revenue. Same with radio.

 

[Yabadabado1]

You sound bitter. Obviously you had no interest in getting a lower mortgage rate, improving your prostate health or learning which blue-chip stock will grow by 200% in the next year. KABC, KRLA and (formerly) KFWB have run infomercials every weekend and I know of no one who listens. Do the stations receive a set amount of money for these infomercials or is the fee based on the number of listeners or responses?

Not bitter. Just dumbfounded and disappointed at how many mistakes were made when they panicked and rushed on the air just because it was going to be leaked they were changing the format. [And I could have been on the ground floor when, back in the early 80s, I could have started working for a radio station in Florida that eventually evolved into the Home Shopping Network......which in my book is infomercials 24/7]. The only reason I can see anyone listening to infomercials is if they're in a vegetative state, are quadriplegics that are incapable of changing the stations or being tortured by the CIA in order to get a confession out of them.

 

[wadio]

The only stations running them are already-dead AM talk stations So no, it's not killing anything. The patient has already gone on to meet its maker.

Nice try.

WABC has been running weekend infomercials for at least a decade and we're seeing the results today. When they started trashing the weekends the station was hardly (nor is it now) an "already-dead AM talk station."

 

[TheBigA]

WABC has been running weekend infomercials for at least a decade and we're seeing the results today. When they started trashing the weekends the station was hardly (nor is it now) an "already-dead AM talk station."

That was three owners ago. Blame the Disney people for killing radio, and then leaving the business. But no one is running on infomercials on stations that have audience.

 

[wadio]

That was three owners ago. Blame the Disney people for killing radio, and then leaving the business. But no one is running on infomercials on stations that have audience.

What are you talking about? WABC still fills most weekend hours with infomercials.

But the bigger point is -- on a talk station, music on the weekends has exactly the same effect as infomercials -- the core listeners tune out.

You correctly pointed out that music on the weekends would be a disaster for a talk station. Don't try to back-peddle. You can't have it both ways. For once admit that one of your statements is wrong.

 

[TheBigA]

But the bigger point is -- on a talk station, music on the weekends has exactly the same effect as infomercials -- the core listeners tune out.

Except that infomercials pay money. If they had advertisers for spots on the wknds, they wouldn't have to run infomercials. WINS isn't running infomercials on weekends, and that's because they have advertisers.

You can't have it both ways. For once admit that one of your statements is wrong.

When did I say music on wknds is bad? I happen to like what NJ101.5 does. But I don't think it would work on WABC.

 

[wadio]

Again, point missed. WABC started the weekend infomercials when they had advertisers.

It's not that weekend infomercials don't provide revenue - - sometimes critical revenue - - but the cost is lower overall ratings. Again, that's what you correctly observed. Why can't you concede that point?

 

[TheBigA]

It's not that weekend infomercials don't provide revenue - - sometimes critical revenue - - but the cost is lower overall ratings.

Lower than what? Most talk stations run repeats of the weekday shows on weekends. That's pretty cheap.

Where did I say I don't like music on talk stations?

 

[wadio]

STOP! While you're ahead. ;-)

 

[K.M. Richards]

1. Eliminate the generic "Oldies Radio" slogan.
2. Eliminate the tired old "Good Times" slogan.
3. Eliminate the bizarre "I-25 Radio" slogan.

Did I get all three correct?

1. No.
2. No.
3. No.

I was referring to format presentation, not slogans.

Stick to writing your feature in Don's column, Steve.

 

[K.M. Richards]

KABC, KRLA and (formerly) KFWB have run infomercials every weekend and I know of no one who listens.

Someone must or the client wouldn't keep ordering them.

 

[michael hagerty]

Do the stations receive a set amount of money for these infomercials or is the fee based on the number of listeners or responses?

Steve:

There is a type of infomercial called PI or Per Inquiry. They measure their success based on the number of calls from listeners in response to the ad at that hour on that station. They generally negotiate a rate low enough that selling just two or three of whatever the client is selling (timeshares, herbal supplements, whatever) gets them to break-even and anything beyond that is pure profit. If they don't get that, the following week, they either don't buy again or they beat the station down into a lower rate for the time.

Many stations put infomercials into a category sometimes known as "house accounts". The station pays no commission to a salesperson. The idea is that it incentivizes the salespeople to actually sell traditional spots in the timeslot, since they'll get a commission if they do. And when they don't (because these are tough timeslots to sell, most often), the station has none of the costs (gas, client lunches, sheer time and, of course, commission) involved in spot sales.

Let's say you're a station and you have 9:00 a.m.-10:00 a.m. Sunday morning open. You can try to sell 18 minutes of spots, but you can't get more than $25 a spot for them. IF you sell out the hour, that's $450. But you won't. Best case, you sell 65% of your available inventory in that hour. Now your gross is $292.50. Deduct the costs of getting that business and the sales commissions, and the station is lucky to see $250. So if you can clear an infomercial in that timeslot for more than $250, you're ahead of the game. And even at or a little below $250, you're still ahead, because there's a benefit to having your sales force using that time to sign more profitable business in other dayparts.

 

[oldies76]

You could have just as easily continued this discussion without getting back to that argument, oldies.

Kind of difficult to do that when someone continually insists that the SPECIAL I heard many times, isn't a special. It's music not in rotation, so it's a special presentation. What's so hard to comprehend?? I never returned to the old arguments from previous threads.

I will tell you this about KWRP, though. It does indeed have a deeper library and is mostly listenable (keeping in mind that I'm 58 years old, have been in the business since I was 16, and have that broader music interest) but I can think of at least three ways it could sound better ... and no, I don't mean by drastically cutting the library.

Ok then. I'm interested in your insights on this station and your ideas on making it sound better.

There is another station I'd like you to sample. The stream audio is mediocre, but it's the music selections they offer:

http://www.937therock.com/ from Denver.

 

[oldies76]

.
3. Eliminate the bizarre "I-25 Radio" slogan.

This was used for the now defunct AM 1530, which no longer broadcasts classic hits. AM 690 does not use this, I believe.
There is I-25 talk radio on 1040AM.

 

[wadio]

Let's say you're a station and you have 9:00 a.m.-10:00 a.m. Sunday morning open. You can try to sell 18 minutes of spots, but you can't get more than $25 a spot for them. IF you sell out the hour, that's $450. But you won't. Best case, you sell 65% of your available inventory in that hour. Now your gross is $292.50. Deduct the costs of getting that business and the sales commissions, and the station is lucky to see $250. So if you can clear an infomercial in that timeslot for more than $250, you're ahead of the game. And even at or a little below $250, you're still ahead, because there's a benefit to having your sales force using that time to sign more profitable business in other dayparts.

Thanks, Michael, for the interesting example. But there are some things it doesn't take into account:

During every hour of brokered content your listeners are forced to go elsewhere. You lose continuity. When the next show starts the audience has to be built from scratch. Let's face it, not every show is "appointment radio" and lead-ins are important.

Then there's the element of "discovery." Listeners looking for something of interest to listen to on the weekend may get hooked on your station if there's real content there -- not someone selling snake oil. Discovery is important in the tech world, as evidenced by Microsoft's recent decision to give away it's operating system to manufacturers of <9" tablets IF they set the default search to Bing and the home page to MSN. That's something the end user can easily change but it's the first step toward forming a user habit that pays off big in the long run.

Also, the weekends are valuable for grooming new talent, and they're an important way to promote the weekday lineup. If the time has value, as evidenced by the direct marketers being able to make money from it, then every hour of genuine talk programming on the weekends is in effect an ad for the station.

I suppose call letter recognition was more important in the diary days than with PPM -- the value of being a "favorite station," reinforced by listeners staying tuned all weekend -- would cause participants to list the station(s) that were foremost in their minds. That might have been an incentive for stations to not throw away the weekends for a quick buck. That's a shame because I think the "favorite station" benefit still exists -- it just can't be seen directly in the minute-by-minute weekday figures.

 

[michael hagerty]

Thanks, Michael, for the interesting example. But there are some things it doesn't take into account:

During every hour of brokered content your listeners are forced to go elsewhere. You lose continuity. When the next show starts the audience has to be built from scratch. Let's face it, not every show is "appointment radio" and lead-ins are important.

Then there's the element of "discovery." Listeners looking for something of interest to listen to on the weekend may get hooked on your station if there's real content there -- not someone selling snake oil. Discovery is important in the tech world, as evidenced by Microsoft's recent decision to give away it's operating system to manufacturers of <9" tablets IF they set the default search to Bing and the home page to MSN. That's something the end user can easily change but it's the first step toward forming a user habit that pays off big in the long run.

Also, the weekends are valuable for grooming new talent, and they're an important way to promote the weekday lineup. If the time has value, as evidenced by the direct marketers being able to make money from it, then every hour of genuine talk programming on the weekends is in effect an ad for the station.

I suppose call letter recognition was more important in the diary days than with PPM -- the value of being a "favorite station," reinforced by listeners staying tuned all weekend -- would cause participants to list the station(s) that were foremost in their minds. That might have been an incentive for stations to not throw away the weekends for a quick buck. That's a shame because I think the "favorite station" benefit still exists -- it just can't be seen directly in the minute-by-minute weekday figures.

One element I deliberately left out of the example: Talent expenses. If you're paying someone to do a show, that further reduces your take from spot sales. And that's IF you can sell spots.

Wadio, I agree that an info on air for a listener is the equivalent of a "CLOSED" sign on a business when you want to buy something, but the economics of putting on and paying for programming and spot sales outside 5 a.m. to 7 p.m. Monday through Friday is getting tougher and tougher for all but the biggest players.

 

[TheBigA]

Of course none of this has anything to do with KRTH.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I would just like to welcome back Oldies from his lifetime, er, two month hiatus. If we can't have entertaining radio, at least we can have an entertaining radio board.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Ok then. I'm interested in your insights on this station and your ideas on making it sound better.

There is another station I'd like you to sample. The stream audio is mediocre, but it's the music selections they offer:

http://www.937therock.com/ from Denver.

I'll think about it, oldies. And if/when I post a full commentary on KWRP it will be in the other thread, where that started. I hope you agree that is appropriate.