You also said "they have no viable plan." That's presumptuous. KTWV didn't appear to have a viable plan two years ago. Until they had one. Give it time.
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KROQ's horrible ratings
- Thread starter MarkW
- Start date
You also said "they have no viable plan." That's presumptuous. KTWV didn't appear to have a viable plan two years ago. Until they had one. Give it time.
Or another way of saying it is you dance with the one who brung ya. Til they're not there any more.
That's one of the problems facing AM talk right now. Sure they can blow it up, and replace Rush with a guy half his age. But they're still making money with the current audience. There's a lot of time and money invested in building a format. So no one's anxious to blow it up. Whatever the next incarnation will be, it will take time and money to build. In cluster management, you try to space those things out so your whole market doesn't suffer.
KROQ....5500 watts...1388 feet
KYSR....75,000 watts...1181 feet
KROQ's signal is pretty much a standard Class B operation. It's what nearly all NYC and Chicago stations use, even though it is one of the most humble signals in LA. KYSR operates with quite a bit more power. But many LA stations are grandfathered with amazing signals. KOST may have the best signal...12,500 watts at 3114 feet. That's more than double the wattage AND more than double the height of KROQ.
Nevertheless, KROQ and KSCA have achieved great ratings in the past with their standard Class B signals. Both stations hit most of the market, even if they might have trouble reaching San Bernardino or Ventura.
Obviously KROQ, at #19, is doing something wrong, if the station used to be top 10 and competitor KYSR is currently top 10. No one is saying the station should abandon Alternative Rock. LA has enough of an Alternative audience that two stations should be viable in the format. I would guess there won't be any overt changes for now, considering CBS Radio is in flux, and everyone is paying more attention to the spin off from CBS Corporate than worrying about KROQ's declining ratings. With 30 years in the format, I'd guess KROQ has plenty of long-time advertisers that it is likely bringing in more revenue than its current ratings would indicate. But no one is going to be happy at #19 forever.
KYSR....75,000 watts...1181 feet
KROQ's signal is pretty much a standard Class B operation. It's what nearly all NYC and Chicago stations use, even though it is one of the most humble signals in LA. KYSR operates with quite a bit more power. But many LA stations are grandfathered with amazing signals. KOST may have the best signal...12,500 watts at 3114 feet. That's more than double the wattage AND more than double the height of KROQ.
Nevertheless, KROQ and KSCA have achieved great ratings in the past with their standard Class B signals. Both stations hit most of the market, even if they might have trouble reaching San Bernardino or Ventura.
Obviously KROQ, at #19, is doing something wrong, if the station used to be top 10 and competitor KYSR is currently top 10. No one is saying the station should abandon Alternative Rock. LA has enough of an Alternative audience that two stations should be viable in the format. I would guess there won't be any overt changes for now, considering CBS Radio is in flux, and everyone is paying more attention to the spin off from CBS Corporate than worrying about KROQ's declining ratings. With 30 years in the format, I'd guess KROQ has plenty of long-time advertisers that it is likely bringing in more revenue than its current ratings would indicate. But no one is going to be happy at #19 forever.
Those two hundred feet make a lot of difference. KYSR has a 60 dbu over 13,200,000 persons, while KROQ covers 11,800,000 persons. The difference in population coverage is 1.4 million, or just 10% less for KROQ than for KYSR.
Also consider that the Wilson stations are all from about 2,800 feet above average terrrain up to 3,800 feet above that level. But they are all about 5,000 feet above the LA Basin because the average height takes into account mountains of similar height to Mt Wilson over an arc of about 180° "behind" the peak, reducing the average height to nearly zero on the radials in that mountainous arc.
KSCA covers 14.2 million with its 60 dbu. It's minimally grandfathered, as the conforming factility is about 600 watts... the power it had when it first moved to Mt Wilson. And KSCA, due to its Mt Wilson location, manages to be the #3 18-49 station in the IE market. And in Ventura, KSCA was on average the #5 station in 18-34 in the period of the Apr-May-Jun Spring book.
Of the Wilson signals, the most powerful is definitely not KOST.
The top one is KBIG at 65,000 watts. Then there is KLOS with 63,000, KTWV at 58,000. KRTH at 51,000. KLVE at 29,500, KCBS at 27,500 (but about 500 feet higher than any of the others due to the use of the KCBS TV tower), KAMP at 21,000, KXOS at 18.500, KKGO at 18,000 and then KOST at #10 among commercial stations.
I took a casual look at the posted playlists from each station, and the main difference I saw was KROQ's music seems to aim a bit older, a bit more familiar. But they still throw in a wacko tune, like "Tequila" by The Champs! Memories of Pee Wee Herman, but that was over 20 years ago! I suspect the alternative audience today is way too picky about the music they hear for this kind of approach. Too bad, because that's what made KROQ famous.
That's very atypical, they are doing a top party songs weekend, and have thrown in a bunch of odd tunes, including Can't Touch This and Ice Ice Baby.
I'd also like to include the fact that ALT 98.7 often one ups KROQ in the amount of "commercial free" sets they do. While that may not be a HUGE impact, I'm sure it's enough to drive some of the average casual alternative radio listeners who may begin to identify KROQ brand as that station that "plays too many commericals." Again not a huge impact, but that can be a typical listener mindset. 987 also seems a little more focused with their demo, KROQ seems to be aiming older while still trying to appeal to younger listeners in a more contrasting fashion and it seems that it may be splitting the older and younger audiences too thin (meaning the majority of their younger audience may not appreciate all of the gold tracks vice versa). Just my take as a 20 year old who who could identify with part of this listener base.
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I think you've explained it well. One of the pitfalls of heritage. CBS had to deal with that same problem at KRTH, and in the last year, they let go of the top end of their audience. I suspect that same fate will befall KROQ in about a year. Now they have a situation where the median of KROQ may be older than KRTH. Conventional wisdom says that only old people listen to OTA radio. But it's often because the formats tend to favor them.
http://www.radiohitlist.com/KROQ/KROQ-1983.htm
Hey guys check this out. Some of the very songs on this list are now played on Kearth . That might explain the older audience of KROQ going to Kearth. Some of the audience, not all of it.
Hey guys check this out. Some of the very songs on this list are now played on Kearth . That might explain the older audience of KROQ going to Kearth. Some of the audience, not all of it.
Audiences do not "go" away. They just spend a little more time with some stations they like and a little less with ones they are liking a bit less.
The average person listens to about 6 stations in the course of a week. A few quarter hours less to KROQ and a few more to other stations they like will make a big difference.
When I was in the area about a month ago, I found myself listening to 91X (comes in great along the coast) and Alt 98.7 more than KROQ. I found their programming to be unbearable to listen to in the car.
I see them trying to thread the needle between Jack, KROQ, and KRTH.
They have to, since they own all three.
Right, and that's what makes the job difficult.
The irony is that when CC converted KYSR to the Alt format, the presumed internal expectations were not particularly high. The thinking went that if they could just take some marginal audience away from KROQ, they would cement their CC FM cluster over the CBS FM, cluster, at which they basically succeeded.
Something happened along the way though. KYSR ALT 98.7 programmers must have felt (accurately I believe) they had to work hard to unseat the champion and so they have become more in tune with their audience, who they have clearly defined to be the younger part of the demo. Not having the heritage to protect allowed them to get a completely different morning show that speaks more to the younger end of the demo, which is smart, because if a listener has been listening to Kevin and Bean for 20 years, their not likely to change their ways now, so no need to go after them. The rest of the day is a cleaner (less personality driven) presentation than KROQ which is also appealing to the millennials. Most millennials I know think DJs are an anachronism that simply gets in the way of their music (crazy, I know, but kids these days!).
Something happened along the way though. KYSR ALT 98.7 programmers must have felt (accurately I believe) they had to work hard to unseat the champion and so they have become more in tune with their audience, who they have clearly defined to be the younger part of the demo. Not having the heritage to protect allowed them to get a completely different morning show that speaks more to the younger end of the demo, which is smart, because if a listener has been listening to Kevin and Bean for 20 years, their not likely to change their ways now, so no need to go after them. The rest of the day is a cleaner (less personality driven) presentation than KROQ which is also appealing to the millennials. Most millennials I know think DJs are an anachronism that simply gets in the way of their music (crazy, I know, but kids these days!).
My mistake about KOST being the best FM signal in LA. As David explained, quite a few of the Mount Wilson-based FM stations have more power than KOST, with KCBS-FM having the best height... 3524 feet HAAT (putting it nearly 7000 feet above sea level) and 27,500 watts.
So how did two lackluster FM stations get improvements in recent years? KSCA and KPWR both had so-so siignals, similar to KROQ. KPWR used to broadcast at 72,000 watts on a 770 foot tower. Still better than the usual Class B but not great compared to other LA FMs. And KSCA used to broadcast at 640 watts (not even a full kilowatt) on a 2820 foot tower. Today KSCA is at 4800 watts at 2831 feet. OK, not great power but certainly better than 640 watts. As David says, it now does well in the IE and Ventura ratings. And KPWR is right up there with the big boys (even if it doesn't have Big Boy doing mornings anymore) at 25,000 watts at 3035 feet.
So why did CBS or Infinity never attempt to put KROQ up on Mount Wilson, on the KNXT/KCBS-TV tower?
So how did two lackluster FM stations get improvements in recent years? KSCA and KPWR both had so-so siignals, similar to KROQ. KPWR used to broadcast at 72,000 watts on a 770 foot tower. Still better than the usual Class B but not great compared to other LA FMs. And KSCA used to broadcast at 640 watts (not even a full kilowatt) on a 2820 foot tower. Today KSCA is at 4800 watts at 2831 feet. OK, not great power but certainly better than 640 watts. As David says, it now does well in the IE and Ventura ratings. And KPWR is right up there with the big boys (even if it doesn't have Big Boy doing mornings anymore) at 25,000 watts at 3035 feet.
So why did CBS or Infinity never attempt to put KROQ up on Mount Wilson, on the KNXT/KCBS-TV tower?
But kroq will never be blown up. Alt since 1983 and will till the end of time.
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You don't know that? Also what does the year 1983 have to do with KROQ being "Alt"?
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Lest us not forget our friends on the Left with 110 Thousand watts? Always thought it was strange Pacifica held the record for the most powerful FM in the Southland
KPWR was 77 kw on top of Flint Peak between Glendale and Pasadena. That site is at 1847 feet AMSL, so it is no slouch. And unlike Verdugo, where KROQ is located, it has no mountains shadowing it for coverage of all the LA basin.
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