Big A - Exactly what I am trying to say. Apply it to a stand alone little fire engine.
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Atlanta Radio, Really
- Thread starter max100
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Big A - Exactly what I am trying to say. Apply it to a stand alone little fire engine.
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Sorry... I made a typo on the decade, as should be obvious from the reference to Kansas.
The 60's stuff... Leslie Gore, Fleetwoods, Bobby Vinton, Little Peggy March, etc., is gone its pretty much later 60's and 70's which explains why they are talking about the importance of people over 50 on the sales page of the site. The music still has a decided 55+ appeal.
I mentioned the shows as, except for a restaurant (and I never had a single location restaurant that was not a bad pay or trade), all the banners are for shows. That seems to answer the question about the kind of clients they have.
The points about over 50's are not wrong. They mention empty nesters, disposable income and such, all of which are valid points. What they do not mention is that older demos tend to require more calls to action before they actually act, meaning the cost per sale is greater.
With my Desert Trip wristbands in hand, I understand your reference to Woodstock!
The 60's stuff... Leslie Gore, Fleetwoods, Bobby Vinton, Little Peggy March, etc., is gone its pretty much later 60's and 70's which explains why they are talking about the importance of people over 50 on the sales page of the site. The music still has a decided 55+ appeal.
I mentioned the shows as, except for a restaurant (and I never had a single location restaurant that was not a bad pay or trade), all the banners are for shows. That seems to answer the question about the kind of clients they have.
The points about over 50's are not wrong. They mention empty nesters, disposable income and such, all of which are valid points. What they do not mention is that older demos tend to require more calls to action before they actually act, meaning the cost per sale is greater.
With my Desert Trip wristbands in hand, I understand your reference to Woodstock!
One wonders how many of those show spots are trade for giveaways, etc. (But let me guess, Hippie doesn't have to do any research or testing because they have a PD who "just knows").
I actually think the saving grace for our local classic hits station, which has much younger skewing cluster-mates, is sponsoring a lot of events. Clients will buy signage at a New Year's Eve or 4th of July celebration when they won't buy a regular spot schedule.
I actually think the saving grace for our local classic hits station, which has much younger skewing cluster-mates, is sponsoring a lot of events. Clients will buy signage at a New Year's Eve or 4th of July celebration when they won't buy a regular spot schedule.
One doesn't have to wonder, gr8oldies. Sure, there are tickets that are on air giveaways, but one doesn't have to give away commercial air time along with said giveaways. These advertisers see the benefit of the radio stations marketing.
Hippie research includes years of combined experience programming radio stations. In case you may be interested for your own radio station, Hippie can be licensed and is in a handful of markets. With this format, it's sort of a natural Jack train wreck. Years and songs clash and work together. The playlist is a bit larger and diverse than most other stations of similar formats, which helps keep the repetition down a bit. As for research, what do you mean? I think the research has been available for decades and it doesn't really change by year. You just have to keep the train moving as time goes on. No wheels to invent. As the 80's come more into play, it certainly makes for an interesting transition, though.
Hippie research includes years of combined experience programming radio stations. In case you may be interested for your own radio station, Hippie can be licensed and is in a handful of markets. With this format, it's sort of a natural Jack train wreck. Years and songs clash and work together. The playlist is a bit larger and diverse than most other stations of similar formats, which helps keep the repetition down a bit. As for research, what do you mean? I think the research has been available for decades and it doesn't really change by year. You just have to keep the train moving as time goes on. No wheels to invent. As the 80's come more into play, it certainly makes for an interesting transition, though.
I get it...no argument from me. But we're talking about Atlanta.
Someone brought up WRAS, which is a 100,000 college station. They claim this is the most powerful college station in the country. However, Nashville has WMOT, owned by MTSU, which is also 100,000 watts, and just flipped formats to Americana. You'd never see that happen in Atlanta either.
Interestingly, Kensington uses the WHPY call on their Jesus station in the Carolinas. Saves on letterhead printing....
First, thanks Max for stiring up the board. It needed it. 9 pages of comments in 48 hours? Last time we saw this is when WYAY went all news. I do have a question though: I am very much aware there are several different things that controls a market and how it sounds BUT is it fair to say Atlanta demographics is the driving force? In addition, for me at least, atlanta radio is not so much the lack of formats as much as it is the execution of the formats. Is it fair to say your Entercom and other medium size companies execute a format better than iheart and cumulus (companies that rule the Atlanta landscape) along with COX? While I'm not a fan of the music (I'm 34), true adult contemporary or older leaning light rock is a huge hole in Atlanta. I do understand the frustration many have. On the format execution, I ask because when I lived in St Louis, regardless of format (excluding the CHR station owned by iheart), all stations, regardless of format, were mostly local and generally deeper. They had a "we play everything" station that covered the 80's 90's and Today. They had a true AC station that covered today's music all the way back to the 70s. They had a classic rock station that was not afraid to play deep cuts from Bands like Jethro Tull, Emerson Lake and Palmer and Cream. The alternative station was amazing and adventurous and the country stations were unique. St Louis radio is primarily ran by medium and local size companies. So I'm wondering if both demographics (something that can't be controlled) and ownership contribute to Atlantas poor performance OR is it a situation where the grass appears greener on the other side. I'm also wondering when rim shots will become more popular with the demographic and population mix around Atlanta. Majority of your 50 plus white men don't live in the city (I know some do but I'm speaking general). If in town signals are focused on the ITP residents, well that may explain the lack of variety and the focus on millennial and hip
Hop oriented radio.
Hop oriented radio.
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Then again, I doubt very many country music listeners live downtown, yet Atlanta has two very successful country stations. And they NEVER get discussed on this board.
The thing is that country music now attracts a very young and active listenership. Advertisers, locally and nationally, seek them out. Which is why two large owners are willing to split the country audience, rather than go after 100% of the classic hits audience. Also why you see so many network TV specials around country music.
LOL, thanks, just the way I feel. I am so sick of hearing that this format will not work, etc, etc, Yes POLKA would not work, but hell we need some excitement on this dial. Music of my era, 60s, 70s was some of the best original real recording artists that had TALENT, unlike the morons today that basicaly have thier music done for them in the studio.
I'm loving this discussion as well. My basic thinking is that the larger the market, the higher the investment to enter and the fewer gambles will be made with that investment. Nashville seems to have plenty of, for lack of a better term, small market stations, that have much less at stake, so more chances can be taken. Hippy Radio is what I would call taking a chance and best of all, it works for them. This seems especially true on Nashville's AM dial although there's some FMs as well.
It might be that there is simply a different culture in Nashville for music. Having been born in Nashville, my mom used to always say she felt country music was more popular outside Nashville than in Nashville itself. She contended Nashville was simply a music hub and country was just a part of it.
I must agree that it seems some 'big boys' seem to lack depth in their format execution in some formats. I have to wonder if this has more to do with initial investment and consensus. I have seen that in stations here. By depth, I mean more of an emotional bonding of the listener outside the station's music format. Being in Texas I can merely compare it to stations from this region, such as how KVIL in Dallas/Ft. Worth under Ron Chapman. I considered KVIL's appeal beyond the music. I'm not talking the on air talent but the 'feel' the station had that attracted people who felt the music more out of line with their tastes but gave them a feeling of belonging. Chapman looked at the listener as part of a big exclusive club and the station had a feel at one point of allowing you to feel you were living beyond your present financial means (ie: more of what you aspire to).
Cox intrigues me. In Houston they ran an '80s format with seemingly no evolution musically or otherwise over it's entire history. It worked. Their country "93Q" has been "The New 93Q" since it's inception, I think, in 1992. Who can argue with their success? It works.
I have always felt a format of seemingly less depth or seemingly poorly executed meant the thinking of the ownership was a short term life for the format or using the frequency as a strategy to better their group for advertising revenue while lessening the strengths of the other players in the market.
It seems in radio we are always serving two masters: the community and the investors. We cannot loosen our grip on either since both are essential. It is how we make what appears to be two opposites mesh that is the key.
It might be that there is simply a different culture in Nashville for music. Having been born in Nashville, my mom used to always say she felt country music was more popular outside Nashville than in Nashville itself. She contended Nashville was simply a music hub and country was just a part of it.
I must agree that it seems some 'big boys' seem to lack depth in their format execution in some formats. I have to wonder if this has more to do with initial investment and consensus. I have seen that in stations here. By depth, I mean more of an emotional bonding of the listener outside the station's music format. Being in Texas I can merely compare it to stations from this region, such as how KVIL in Dallas/Ft. Worth under Ron Chapman. I considered KVIL's appeal beyond the music. I'm not talking the on air talent but the 'feel' the station had that attracted people who felt the music more out of line with their tastes but gave them a feeling of belonging. Chapman looked at the listener as part of a big exclusive club and the station had a feel at one point of allowing you to feel you were living beyond your present financial means (ie: more of what you aspire to).
Cox intrigues me. In Houston they ran an '80s format with seemingly no evolution musically or otherwise over it's entire history. It worked. Their country "93Q" has been "The New 93Q" since it's inception, I think, in 1992. Who can argue with their success? It works.
I have always felt a format of seemingly less depth or seemingly poorly executed meant the thinking of the ownership was a short term life for the format or using the frequency as a strategy to better their group for advertising revenue while lessening the strengths of the other players in the market.
It seems in radio we are always serving two masters: the community and the investors. We cannot loosen our grip on either since both are essential. It is how we make what appears to be two opposites mesh that is the key.
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They're doing basically the same thing in Atlanta with The River. I suspect that between that station and WSB, they've got the older demo covered. I wonder where The River stacks up in billings.
WRAS is now 50,000 watts directional after a move into downtown Atlanta. They still have a licensed backup site which is 100,000 watts but at 400 feet HAAT. That is a HUGH difference from most other C1 facilities in ATL which are at 1000 feet HAAT. Remember...FM is "line of sight" so the higher your transmit antenna is, the further the distance to the radio horizon.
My guess is that if WRAS flipped it would be to 24/7 GPB. I'm surprised that hasn't happened already.
It's why the FMs in NYC are on the Empire State Building, which is 1280 feet.
I agree. Night and Day difference! The old signal, while 100KW, was riddled with multipath in many areas of Atlanta. That was especially true in the intown areas where most of the college/NPR P1s would live. When they screw up and play a well mixed track it sounds very good.
The Empire stations all have between 5-8 KW ERP (effective radiated power) since they are Class B maximums. That power, at 1280 feet, is equivalent to 50,000 watts at 500 feet.
There is a noticeable/measurable difference between 50 KW @ 500 feet versus 50 KW at 1000 feet. Even more noticeable is the difference between 5 KW and 50 KW at 500 feet - mainly building penetration.
WRAS does not radiate 50 KW in all directions. If I remember correctly, they do not do 50 KW in ANY direction due to the performance of the antenna. Due west it's only 2 KW! But 2 KW at 1000 feet still does quite well! To the south and east it throws off 38-45 KW I'm thinking.
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1690 is about to get a translator too. This is a true "hobby" station owned by a guy who inherited about 500 million from his father. He has 25 million in two lame AM stations but hey, what's another couple hundred thou when you have that kind of piggy bank.
It is known mostly because the owner plays bird calls mixed with opera, country, rock, and Yiddish. It's quite esoteric! It never shows in the ratings but has a good bit of local business because the guy who runs the place can sell ice to Eskimos. Probably very similar to WHYP.
I still listen to WSM AM on a regular basis via skywave. That format is totally unworkable on any other station but it consistently pulls a Nashville 2 share. It is truly, "The Legend."
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