Kkht 100.7

[rbrucecarter5]

Great explanation, David.

If I'm in charge of sales for WBAP, I would not stump in Austin or OKC.

As a fan of radio, however, I'm excited about the clear signal I get from KCTA in Boerne or Lake Charles.

You see things differently than I, having a past/present influence in radio.

I did have a stint on KTSW in 2009 that I'm proud to mention. Other than that, I'm simply a fan and do not view radio signals in terms that you do.

I think I heard an occasional Wichita Falls and Waco / Temple ad on WBAP. I agree that Austin or OKC would be a bit far afield and served by local stations probably playing the same shows. And Wichita Falls made sense because at the time 96.7 was re-broadcasting WBAP, and their tower is mid-way between the DFW metroplex and Wichita Falls - so essentially semi-local for both.

 

[davideduardo]

I think I heard an occasional Wichita Falls and Waco / Temple ad on WBAP. I agree that Austin or OKC would be a bit far afield and served by local stations probably playing the same shows. And Wichita Falls made sense because at the time 96.7 was re-broadcasting WBAP, and their tower is mid-way between the DFW metroplex and Wichita Falls - so essentially semi-local for both.

First, many/most of those cases are likely ad placements where dealer names are rotated in the manufacturer's ads. It was, in the past, common to hear names of dealers in areas that whatever the station being used did not cover.

The 54 dbu of 96.7 does not even reach Wichita County.

And again, why would a merchant in a smaller market be paying hundreds of dollars a spot on a distant station that has little local audience to speak of when they could be paying perhaps $20 to $50 a spot in the local market.

Using Wichita falls as an example, the top billing station has revenue just short of $900,000 a year. With a typical spot load, that means the average spot is going for less than $30 on a station with an 11 share of the local audience... while WBAP has less than a 1 share in the market. So the merchant would be paying six times or more the cost to reach less than a tenth of the audience of the leading local station.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

The 54 dbu of 96.7 does not even reach Wichita County.

Doesn't reach parts of the metroplex, either, hence the frequent turnover of formats. Very much the definition of a rim shot.

 

[The Rimshot]

Doesn't reach parts of the metroplex, either, hence the frequent turnover of formats. Very much the definition of a rim shot.

Very true, Bruce.

WBAP-FM puts out more dBu in Ardmore, OK than the actual city of Dallas.

 

[davideduardo]

Doesn't reach parts of the metroplex, either, hence the frequent turnover of formats. Very much the definition of a rim shot.

Dallas is perhaps the rimshot capital of the nation.

Some, by targeting audiences that live within the contours, are quite successful. Others have gone through a variety of formats... but then again, so have some of the full market signals. In many cases, a rimshot that develops a successful format may be "jumped" by a bigger signal. That is the definition of a competitive market.

 

[davideduardo]

Very true, Bruce.

WBAP-FM puts out more dBu in Ardmore, OK than the actual city of Dallas.

But there is far more money to be had from reaching a part of Dallas than all of Ardmore.

There is generally plenty of opportunity to make money with a frugally run station that did not cost anywhere near as much as a full signal by being the "bottom feeder" and selling to local direct accounts that can't afford the bigger stations.

 

[First Fone 65]

So it's not suited for 88.1-91.9FM. Fair enough.

Do you feel like they could bill just as much on an AM station, but with less overhead?

It all depends on the station You are talking about, generally speaking AM has greater over head than FM, but You are comparing apples and oranges and some are larger than others, A am station with one tower Omni directional pattern would generally have the lowest overhead for a AM station, if the am station runs high power and has multiple towers which are required for a directional antenna system the costs could be very high but then again the coverage could be several times what a high power FM station on a 2000 ft tower could cover, and AM stations require large tracks of land for towers and ground system where FM only needs one tower but then the rent for antenna space on a 2000 ft tower doesn't come cheap. and repair on a number of towers, painting, lighting ect is not cheap either.

 

[davideduardo]

A am station with one tower Omni directional pattern would generally have the lowest overhead for a AM station, if the am station runs high power and has multiple towers which are required for a directional antenna system the costs could be very high but then again the coverage could be several times what a high power FM station on a 2000 ft tower could cover,

The problem, if we are talking specifically about Houston, is that there is no AM station that has day and night usable coverage that is as good as the Senior Road tower coverage for a full power FM.

KTRH comes close, but the night signal is deficient in some areas of the market. And it's not for sale.

The remainder of Houston AM stations are not close to the coverage of a full C FM.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

But there is far more money to be had from reaching a part of Dallas than all of Ardmore.

There is generally plenty of opportunity to make money with a frugally run station that did not cost anywhere near as much as a full signal by being the "bottom feeder" and selling to local direct accounts that can't afford the bigger stations.

I think you may have it backward. If a business in Ardmore thinks WBAP is a good match to their customers, they will call WBAP to purchase spots. End of story.

 

[The Rimshot]

The problem, if we are talking specifically about Houston, is that there is no AM station that has day and night usable coverage that is as good as the Senior Road tower coverage for a full power FM.

KTRH comes close, but the night signal is deficient in some areas of the market. And it's not for sale.

The remainder of Houston AM stations are not close to the coverage of a full C FM.

KTRH comes into the northwest side of San Antonio extremely well at night. Booms in like a local.

However, it certainly does not travel as far as WWL, WOAI, KOA, etc.

 

[Kent]

I think you may have it backward. If a business in Ardmore thinks WBAP is a good match to their customers, they will call WBAP to purchase spots. End of story.

The typical business in Ardmore can't afford to pay Dallas rates. I suppose you might occasionally get a car dealership in Ardmore targeting Dallas area customers, though, growing up in Texas and Oklahoma, my experience was always people going south of the Red River, not north, to buy cars. That was why Oklahoma passed that punishing excise tax a few decades ago.

 

[davideduardo]

I think you may have it backward. If a business in Ardmore thinks WBAP is a good match to their customers, they will call WBAP to purchase spots. End of story.

The highly listened to Ardmore stations likely have a per-spot cost that is about 5% of the cost of WBAP.

Based on the billings of the top Ardmore station, and an average "successful station" spot load, the rate on that station likely average under $20 per spot. I am assuming that the ROS rate on WBAP is over $200, and likely nearer $300 in 6 AM to 7 PM dayparts.

The Ardmore station will have many, many times the listening of the Dallas station, meaning that the cost per listener for the advertiser might be 50 to 100 times higher if they use WBAP.

Advertisers who have survived the last 10 years of our economy are not stupid enough to do that.

 

[davideduardo]

KTRH comes into the northwest side of San Antonio extremely well at night. Booms in like a local.

That's skywave. Not part of the sales equation for that station.

 

[Kent]

I'll admit the last time I was back in Dallas was six years ago, but the only Oklahoma business I heard advertising on DFW radio was the WinStar Casino at the 0 mile marker on I-35. The year before, I pulled off the highway there to check it out, and almost every car in the lot had Texas plates.

 

[b-turner]

I have to agree. Businesses do not call radio stations to advertise and if they did, no Dallas/Fort Worth account executive is going to Ardmore to sell them, wasting all that travel time when they could be calling on local accounts and making more money. Anyway, a distant advertiser like that would not have the income to afford WBAP and the station would not have the listeners around Ardmore to produce the results from that advertising. WinStar is agency advertising placed over a wider geography than any retail outlet. In that respect, WinStar is the nearest casino to Dallas/Ft. Worth. Plainly put, not many casinos out there...gotta leave Texas.

 

[davideduardo]

In that respect, WinStar is the nearest casino to Dallas/Ft. Worth. Plainly put, not many casinos out there...gotta leave Texas.

This is no different than the Las Vegas casinos that advertise in the Los Angles market. They are trying to attract people who will drive 5 hours to Vegas to play... and there are apparently about 40,000 every week who do that.

And the nearer casinos in Palm Springs and other out-of-town locations advertise, too. Not for locals, but for those who will take the trip because the Indian Gaming casinos in LA are not as good.

In those cases, they pay LA rates to reach folks in LA who are a big part of their market.

In both instances, to attract locals they advertise on local stations, with very different messages.

 

[The Rimshot]

That's skywave. Not part of the sales equation for that station.

I don't care about sales. I'm not in radio sales. Please don't mention sales to me anymore.

 

[davideduardo]

I don't care about sales. I'm not in radio sales. Please don't mention sales to me anymore.

Sales is the reason commercial radio stations are on the air. Programming decisions and even things like improving the technical facility are all based on sales.

Today, I don't think there is a single AM station that does not wish that signals did not skip via skywave at night. If that did not happen, daytimers could go fulltime, and many directional systems could be eliminated and coverage improved.

 

[The Rimshot]

Sales is the reason commercial radio stations are on the air. Programming decisions and even things like improving the technical facility are all based on sales.

Agreed, but when I post, "Hey, I heard WBZ-AM in Victoria," I don't say it with the intent that WBZ should sell radio spots to Killebrew Dodge. I mention it from a radio hobbyist's standpoint. You can be a buzzkill sometimes.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Agreed, but when I post, "Hey, I heard WBZ-AM in Victoria," I don't say it with the intent that WBZ should sell radio spots to Killebrew Dodge. I mention it from a radio hobbyist's standpoint. You can be a buzzkill sometimes.

The real buzzkill are current radio formats. The only reason I DX'ed in the past was for the music. When AM is piddle, drivel, and swill of conservative / liberal talk, slob sports that talk about nothing of value to western civilization, or are in various foreign languages I don't know - there is little motivation to turn on the radio, let alone DX.

Back to the original subject of this thread, I doubt KKHT will flip. If they do, it is unlikely it will be to a format that I enjoy, so it will probably not make my presets. Popular culture today is cr&p. My hope is ABK. Anything But Kardashian, that is. Or - any disgusting song / songs about buttocks. Even foreign babbling would be better.