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The NBA isn’t surprised its TV ratings are way down. Radical change already was afoot

The way to make this league great again is to encouarage competition. I don't know if they know how to do it.

Not only are there far too many teams that aren't even trying to compete (Baseball has this problem, too.), but the recent concept of "load management," which has star players sitting out games just to rest the body parts that, for players in years past, were good to go for every game on the schedule, hurts the sport as well. It's the basketball equivalent of the pitch count in baseball, except in basketball's case, the perfectly healthy player doesn't come out of the game early; he doesn't play at all. Often, those games are highly anticipated matchups for which fans have paid top ticket prices to attend. That's not the way to juice up competition, attendance, ratings or anything else.

Of course, I'm in the group that believes that games are being manipulated and fixed routinely just to provide exciting entertainment for television, so it's not like I'm an impartial observer.
 
Not only are there far too many teams that aren't even trying to compete (Baseball has this problem, too.), but the recent concept of "load management," which has star players sitting out games just to rest the body parts that, for players in years past, were good to go for every game on the schedule, hurts the sport as well. It's the basketball equivalent of the pitch count in baseball, except in basketball's case, the perfectly healthy player doesn't come out of the game early; he doesn't play at all. Often, those games are highly anticipated matchups for which fans have paid top ticket prices to attend. That's not the way to juice up competition, attendance, ratings or anything else.

Of course, I'm in the group that believes that games are being manipulated and fixed routinely just to provide exciting entertainment for television, so it's not like I'm an impartial observer.

The NBA is considering shortening the season a bit. They should. 82 games plus 4 rounds of playoffs is a lot. The Finals don't end until late June.

The Lakers missed the playoffs with LeBron last year. How did that happen if the league is fixed? The Knicks have been bad for a long time despite being the #1 market. Toronto is the defending champion. Why did the league "let" a Canadian team win? Maybe it's all part of your plot to make it look legitimate.!

Winning teams usually have 1 or 2 great players and a solid supporting cast. The Warriors had a great run. The Spurs did as well. Things are cyclical...
 
The Lakers missed the playoffs with LeBron last year. How did that happen if the league is fixed?

Because Lonzo Ball. No one would ever believe the league was on the up-and-up if Lonzo Ball ever won anything.

Yeah, I know I'm probably all wrong on this. I just can't help thinking about Tim Donaghy -- the crooked ref -- and that improbable streak of home teams winning something like 20 straight Game 7s in the playoffs.
 
Because Lonzo Ball. No one would ever believe the league was on the up-and-up if Lonzo Ball ever won anything.

Yeah, I know I'm probably all wrong on this. I just can't help thinking about Tim Donaghy -- the crooked ref -- and that improbable streak of home teams winning something like 20 straight Game 7s in the playoffs.

Cleveland won a game 7 at Golden State a few years back. Usually, home court is worth 7-10 points. Teams tend to get more calls at home. Star players usually get more (home or road). It's impossible to totally fix games, but point shaving is possible. Players could deliberately miss free throws.

The New Orleans Saints were victims of one of the worst non calls in history. The NFL even changed the rule to allow coaches challenges on pass interference. That's been a joke. Bad and inconsistent officiating is rampant everywhere. Fans argue about it, but they keep watching...
 
The NBA is considering shortening the season a bit. They should. 82 games plus 4 rounds of playoffs is a lot. The Finals don't end until late June.

It's an indoor sport so the season could begin and end at any time. The NBA just doesn't want competition from other sports.

And the poor, poor players. The NHL has an equal length season but hockey is a hell of a lot more physical than basketball. I really feel for these 6'6" giants who can't take the work. Maybe if the NBA put a 6'2" cap on all players their shooting would improve, we wouldn't have to watch those ridiculous "dumps" and their stamina could outlast an 80-game season.

Why did the league "let" a Canadian team win?

How many "Canadian" players did Toronto have in their championship season?
 
It's an indoor sport so the season could begin and end at any time. The NBA just doesn't want competition from other sports.

No competition? By the time the NBA has its first real showcase of the season, on Christmas Day, their season is about 40% over. The NHL season is already close to half over.

And the poor, poor players. The NHL has an equal length season but hockey is a hell of a lot more physical than basketball. I really feel for these 6'6" giants who can't take the work. Maybe if the NBA put a 6'2" cap on all players their shooting would improve, we wouldn't have to watch those ridiculous "dumps" and their stamina could outlast an 80-game season.

I've said for years that if it were possible to send the entire current NBA roster back 30 years, maybe 1/3 of them would earn a roster spot anywhere in the league. the post-2000 NBA isn't exactly its Golden Age, unlike the 1980s and '90s.
 
This thread brought up something that would be an interesting tangent: the relative interest in a given sport aside, how do TV viewing habits (and in that I'm including streaming, including recent releases) vary between Thanksgiving and Christmas? How much of an apples-to-oranges element comes into play on Thanksgiving night vs. Christmas night? And how has that changed over the long haul?

I'm not saying there aren't clear differences between the NBA and NFL in terms of fan engagement, but I do find it interesting to look at how multiple behavioral and demographic trends impact something like this over time.
 
It's an indoor sport so the season could begin and end at any time. The NBA just doesn't want competition from other sports.

And the poor, poor players. The NHL has an equal length season but hockey is a hell of a lot more physical than basketball. I really feel for these 6'6" giants who can't take the work. Maybe if the NBA put a 6'2" cap on all players their shooting would improve, we wouldn't have to watch those ridiculous "dumps" and their stamina could outlast an 80-game season.



How many "Canadian" players did Toronto have in their championship season?

You obviously don't like basketball. The NBA has a lot of talent including European players. You haven't watched much based on your ignorance of the sport. Toronto is a Canadian city and doesn't count in American Nielsen ratings. That was the point, which you missed. How many NFL players play in their hometown? It's irrelevant.

Hockey plays 82 games and 16 teams make the playoffs. That's also ridiculous. The ratings for hockey are miniscule outside of very few markets. The NBA ratings may be down compared to last year, but the league is not struggling...
 
Hockey plays 82 games and 16 teams make the playoffs. That's also ridiculous.

Which is the exact same playoff format the NBA uses. And yes, it is ridiculous.
 
I've said for years that if it were possible to send the entire current NBA roster back 30 years, maybe 1/3 of them would earn a roster spot anywhere in the league. the post-2000 NBA isn't exactly its Golden Age, unlike the 1980s and '90s.[/QUOTE]

It's impossible to compare different eras. There were fewer teams back then. The Celtics dominated the league in the 60s. The collapse of the ABA brought in new players to the NBA in the 70s. The Celtics and Lakers in the 80s (with Bird and Magic) helped the league grow. I remember NBA Finals games being broadcast on tape delay at 1130pm on the West Coast in the early 80s. Think about that! No live prime time coverage for the Finals.

The Golden Age you speak of had a few dominant teams and a lot of also rans. Boston, LA, Chicago and Houston won most of the titles in the 80s and 90s. Again, it's not possible to compare eras...
 
No competition? By the time the NBA has its first real showcase of the season, on Christmas Day, their season is about 40% over. The NHL season is already close to half over.

Those numbers are not that far apart but what I was alluding to was football, both pro and college. Hockey doesn't have the same audience as the NBA.
 
You obviously don't like basketball.

Not true. I played as a kid. My high school is known for its excellent, competitive basketball teams. I played in the Navy. Of course, that's before rules like traveling, "big man" brutality and ridiculous officiating took over. That is also before it took little skill for a exceedingly tall player to dunk into a 10' basket. It is true I do not like the product today, both college and NBA. What once was a game of grace and skill has been transformed into a WWE-like contest that is much more buffoonery than a bonafide sport.

The NBA has a lot of talent including European players.

Just like the NHL.

You haven't watched much based on your ignorance of the sport. Toronto is a Canadian city and doesn't count in American Nielsen ratings. That was the point, which you missed. How many NFL players play in their hometown? It's irrelevant.

I don't watch at all any longer but I am not ignorant of the sport. I am old enough to remember when it was both entertaining to play and to watch. And, you must have missed it, but my post was not related to Nielsen ratings. I was addressing the sport itself. My comment about Toronto is that virtually all their players are American. In the same way several decades past that 99.9% of NHL players were Canadian, not American. Nevertheless, fans considered their home teams American or Canadian based upon their city of play and not the nationality of their players.

Hockey plays 82 games and 16 teams make the playoffs. That's also ridiculous.

I agree with that. In addition, the best of 7 in the preliminary rounds injure too many good players. If the current playoff system is going to be retained in hockey the prelim's should be best of 3 or best of 5 at most.

The ratings for hockey are miniscule outside of very few markets. The NBA ratings may be down compared to last year, but the league is not struggling...

I believe the OP was comparing current ratings to those of yesteryear. "Struggling" may not be the ideal description but that does not take away from the fact that it isn't the game it once was. And comparing it to hockey, or even baseball or football is apples and oranges. Basketball is the second cheapest sport to play needing only a ball and a basket. Only soccer is cheaper (needing only a ball). Hockey and football are very expensive sports to play and will always trail in the number of people who played as kids and become adult fans.
 
I believe the OP was comparing current ratings to those of yesteryear.

What's interesting is when you compare today with the 90s. Once we move into the 2000s, TV ratings for the NBA were cut in half. A lot of that was the movement of the NBA to cable. NBC lost the NBA contract around 2002. Viewership has never returned to that level. Even on Christmas when the games are on ABC. But there's also expansion, rule changes, and the ill-fated lockout.
 
What's interesting is when you compare today with the 90s. Once we move into the 2000s, TV ratings for the NBA were cut in half. A lot of that was the movement of the NBA to cable. NBC lost the NBA contract around 2002. Viewership has never returned to that level. Even on Christmas when the games are on ABC.
Michael Jordan retired around then too.
 
Michael Jordan retired around then too.

That gets back to my earlier point about stars. Sure there are well known players such as LeBron and Westbrook. But could you name a dozen? Are any of them as famous as Jordan? He was a rock star. He was bigger than basketball. There's nobody, even LeBron, who compares.
 
That gets back to my earlier point about stars. Sure there are well known players such as LeBron and Westbrook. But could you name a dozen? Are any of them as famous as Jordan? He was a rock star. He was bigger than basketball. There's nobody, even LeBron, who compares.
The Bulls owned the league in the 90's. You don't have one big powerhouse team like that. Sure Golden State, but they didn't come close to what Jordan and the Bulls had.
 
The Bulls owned the league in the 90's. You don't have one big powerhouse team like that. Sure Golden State, but they didn't come close to what Jordan and the Bulls had.

The 80s had Bird and Magic. The 90s had Jordan, Clyde Drexler, Hakeem, Shaq, etc.. There are plenty of great players today. Kawhi Leonard, James Harden, Curry, Kevin Durant, etc.. Injuries have taken out some.

The Warriors have come close to dominating like The Bulls did, but not surpassing it. What does it matter? People who aren't Patriots fans bitch about New England winning too much. People want greatness and winners, but then complain when one team dominates...
 
The 80s had Bird and Magic. The 90s had Jordan, Clyde Drexler, Hakeem, Shaq, etc.. There are plenty of great players today. Kawhi Leonard, James Harden, Curry, Kevin Durant, etc.. Injuries have taken out some.

The Warriors have come close to dominating like The Bulls did, but not surpassing it. What does it matter? People who aren't Patriots fans bitch about New England winning too much. People want greatness and winners, but then complain when one team dominates...

It's a different league today. The 70-90's were more aggressive. You had players you had a real personality. Don't forget how bad the Knicks have been, losing the New York market has to hurt. Yes the garden is always full but it's not to watch the team.
 
It's a different league today. The 70-90's were more aggressive. You had players you had a real personality. Don't forget how bad the Knicks have been, losing the New York market has to hurt. Yes the garden is always full but it's not to watch the team.

When you say aggressive, do you mean Thugs? Hard fouls were plentiful back then. Detroit had the "Bad Boys" and instigator Bill Laimbeer. Even the most stoic player like Robert Parish of the Celtics finally had enough of punk Laimbeer and felled him with a barrage of punches.
(A playoff classic).

The 70s were marred by the cocaine scandals. Bird and Magic helped bring the league back to bigger audiences.

The game has evolved. The center position is extinct. Big men can shoot threes like guards. It's a different style and different era...
 
Bad Boy Pistons couldn't play in this era like the '70s or 80's team those were major hard foul days and fights as well. I was a big Pistons fan still am to this day as well the NBA is fine even with ratings being down was kinda surprised that the lockout in 2011 didn't hurt the NBA ratings. Seems like a lot of the top talent is hurt or on the injury list as well no Curry, KD etc.
 
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