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News/Talk ratings skyrocket; Sports, CHR, Hot AC and AC tumble

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wastedtalent23

Most of the News/Talk stations around the country are doing extremely well as of late, which is obviously a direct result of the COVID-19 pandemic. Although interesting, I am not surprised by this as large amounts of people are staying home. But is this profitable? Can News/Talk stations capitalize on a trend that will likely only last a couple more months or so? When society gets back to "normal" would you look back and call it a fluke?

Understandably, Sports talk stations are likely struggling to create compelling discussion topics, as there are very few sporting events happening right now.

As for contemporary music formats such as CHR, Hot AC and AC, they are losing the at work listeners, as well as the drive to and from work listeners. Then again, I'm not seeing any drastic changes as far as Classic Hits or Classic Rock stations, which people listen to at work as well.

IMHO, there's not enough live and local talent on music stations to give information that people want during these times, due to all of the consolidation and downsizing that has taken place over the last 20 years.

Do the ratings have as much credibility as they did before the pandemic? If you were an advertiser, would you change the way you buy?
 
wastedtalent23 said:
If you were an advertiser, would you change the way you buy?
Click to expand...

I sense advertisers have more important considerations now. They have to stay in business first.

Regarding music formats, there's not much happening in currents-based music right now. The musicians can't make news music, they're home staying safe, so the new music formats aren't really moving. Not much motivation to listen if there's nothing new to hear.
 
wastedtalent23 said:
Most of the News/Talk stations around the country are doing extremely well as of late, which is obviously a direct result of the COVID-19 pandemic. Although interesting, I am not surprised by this as large amounts of people are staying home. But is this profitable? Can News/Talk stations capitalize on a trend that will likely only last a couple more months or so? When society gets back to "normal" would you look back and call it a fluke?

Understandably, Sports talk stations are likely struggling to create compelling discussion topics, as there are very few sporting events happening right now.

As for contemporary music formats such as CHR, Hot AC and AC, they are losing the at work listeners, as well as the drive to and from work listeners. Then again, I'm not seeing any drastic changes as far as Classic Hits or Classic Rock stations, which people listen to at work as well.

IMHO, there's not enough live and local talent on music stations to give information that people want during these times, due to all of the consolidation and downsizing that has taken place over the last 20 years.

Do the ratings have as much credibility as they did before the pandemic? If you were an advertiser, would you change the way you buy?
Click to expand...

News/Talk and All-News radio will continue to do well all through 2020 given that the 2020 elections are coming in close to 5 months though. For other formats thats uncertain though.
 
wastedtalent23 said:
Most of the News/Talk stations around the country are doing extremely well as of late, which is obviously a direct result of the COVID-19 pandemic.
Click to expand...

Not really. With a few exceptions they have lower cume, lower ratings and lower AQH persons than January and February. They just have a bigger piece of a much smaller universe.
 
wastedtalent23 said:
IMHO, there's not enough live and local talent on music stations to give information that people want during these times, due to all of the consolidation and downsizing that has taken place over the last 20 years.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is it.
There's nothing changing minute-by-minute like there might be in an earthquake, hurricane, or other natural disaster. Ergo there's no reason for music stations to change their programming strategy to include news updates.

My personal preference: if I've settled in to listen to Adele and Nickleback on my local AC station, I have no interest in hearing about the pandemic, or the recession, and especially not the tweets of world leaders. Doing so will chase me off to another station or a web platform.

Anyway, to the thesis that news/talk is doing well, I don't necessarily see that. In markets where all-news exists, it is doing well, probably to the detriment of the news/talk format in those markets.
In New York, WINS, WNYC and WCBS are up, but WABC and WOR are flat.
In Chicago, WBBM, WGN and WBEZ are up, and WLS is flat.
In SF, KCBS and KQED are up, while talkers KSFO and KGO are down.

Of the markets that were released yesterday, only LA's KFI and Atlanta's WSB are news/talk statins that made share gains amid the pandemic.

And none of this really matters if buyers don't use these books, or if they stay away from radio over a longer term.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Not really. With a few exceptions they have lower cume, lower ratings and lower AQH persons than January and February. They just have a bigger piece of a much smaller universe.
Click to expand...

Based on what stats, David?

Detroit, WWJ
Share Jan:4.3
Share Mar: 5.8

Chicago, WBBM
Share Jan:5.4
Share Apr: 8.4

New York, WINS
Share Jan:3.5
Share Apr: 5.7

As reports have indicated that listening is on the rise, why would a higher share not mean higher cume? Certainly the stations may have issues monetizing this higher listening, but the data seems to indicate that the cume is higher. What data are you working from? I'm using the data from https://ratings.****************
 
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PTBoardOp94 said:
That data is share, not cume.
Click to expand...

True, which is why I asked what the source was. I don't have access to the paid data, but media reports like the following:

https://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insig...dia-consumption-rises-amid-covid-19-pandemic/

indicate that listening is on the rise therefore leading to a reasonable conclusion that a higher share means higher cume. I'll correct my post, but this is why I asked David the source of the date for his assertion that cume was declining.

If this information, from Neilsen, https://www.westwoodone.com/2020/04/14/am-fm-radio-exceeds-expectations-what-you-need-to-know-about-nielsens-march-2020-portable-people-meter-audience-data/

is any indication, overall cume would seem to have fallen a bit, but with the higher shares of News/Talk, they would seem to have more. I'm aware these results aren't uniform and since a lot of people aren't commuting, where most radio listening is done, there is bound to be an impact. Specifically, however, with News/Talk's higher share there at least is an indication that their cume may be higher.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Not really. With a few exceptions they have lower cume, lower ratings and lower AQH persons than January and February. They just have a bigger piece of a much smaller universe.
Click to expand...

Very true. Even still, I suspect that many big broadcasters will fail to realize any potential. Building a news-oriented product on radio takes people and time, which is to say it costs money. They weren't spending on developing this kind of programming before COVID-19. With diminished revenues now, they most certainly won't going forward.
 
NewsStud said:
Very true. Even still, I suspect that many big broadcasters will fail to realize any potential. Building a news-oriented product on radio takes people and time, which is to say it costs money. They weren't spending on developing this kind of programming before COVID-19. With diminished revenues now, they most certainly won't going forward.
Click to expand...

Especially since interest in such programming would drop sharply if this situation somehow is resolved -- cure? vaccine (although knuckle-dragging anti-vaxers and other allegedly human wearers of tin-foil headgear may torpedo this through outright refusal, believing that Bill Gates or Barack Obama or George Soros is somehow dropping microchips into the concoction)? herd immunity? -- and everyone goes back to driving to work, going to concerts and such.
 
NewsStud said:
Building a news-oriented product on radio takes people and time, which is to say it costs money. They weren't spending on developing this kind of programming before COVID-19. With diminished revenues now, they most certainly won't going forward.
Click to expand...

Primarily because the audience for news programming is older than what's typically desired by major national advertisers. They'd gladly spend money if it would make it, but news programming isn't an attractive format for advertisers. Therefore it's a better format for public, non-commercial broadcasters.
 
umfan said:
Based on what stats, David?

Detroit, WWJ
Share Jan:4.3
Share Mar: 5.8

Chicago, WBBM
Share Jan:5.4
Share Apr: 8.4

New York, WINS
Share Jan:3.5
Share Apr: 5.7

As reports have indicated that listening is on the rise, why would a higher share not mean higher cume? Certainly the stations may have issues monetizing this higher listening, but the data seems to indicate that the cume is higher. What data are you working from? I'm using the data from https://ratings.****************
Click to expand...

If the size of the pie has decreased, the share might stay the same but the rating would go down.
 
umfan said:
Based on what stats, David?

Detroit, WWJ
Share Jan:4.3
Share Mar: 5.8

Chicago, WBBM
Share Jan:5.4
Share Apr: 8.4

New York, WINS
Share Jan:3.5
Share Apr: 5.7

As reports have indicated that listening is on the rise, why would a higher share not mean higher cume? Certainly the stations may have issues monetizing this higher listening, but the data seems to indicate that the cume is higher. What data are you working from? I'm using the data from https://ratings.****************
Click to expand...

"Share" is a percentage of those listening to radio. "Rating" is the percentages of all people, listening and not listening.

(Subscribers get all the data for all age groups and even for custom age groups.)

When radio listening is off by a third or more, then "share" is irrelevant because it is a percentage of a much smaller universe... the much smaller number of people listening to radio now than prior to the virus period.

So, your statement of "listening is on the rise" is inaccurate. Listening dropped off a cliff. A station that went from a 2 to a 3 share has, in most markets, fewer listeners than before.

"Rating" and not "share" have to be looked at. Or better, AQH persons.

WINS in New York City actually had fewer AQH listeners in 25-54 in April than they did in the same month last year. In essence, the interest in news made them stay flat, while music stations were off by a third to almost two-thirds in actual listeners.

Share comparisons during this crisis are deceiving and irrelevant as the baseline has changed.
 
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umfan said:
indicate that listening is on the rise therefore leading to a reasonable conclusion that a higher share means higher cume. I'll correct my post, but this is why I asked David the source of the date for his assertion that cume was declining.
is any indication, overall cume would seem to have fallen a bit, but with the higher shares of News/Talk, they would seem to have more. I'm aware these results aren't uniform and since a lot of people aren't commuting, where most radio listening is done, there is bound to be an impact. Specifically, however, with News/Talk's higher share there at least is an indication that their cume may be higher.
Click to expand...

Overall cume of radio is off by about a third across the PPM markets.

Music stations have lost between 30% and up to about 60% of their AQH persons listening. Some news or news talks are at the same listening levels as "before" and others are off. The result for news stations is a big increase in share, but that represents fewer people.

About half of radio listening now is done in the car. But another large percentage is "at work" and with about a third of the workforce not working or not commuting, the effect on both cume and AQH persons is dramatic and lower.

Again, when the basis has changed "share" is irrelevant. Cume and rating are the only relevant things that can be analyzed.
 
So, David, do you have hard data on the cume to support your contention that cume is down for News/Talk despite their higher share or not? Yes, overall cume may be down, but I've seen nothing to support that cume is down for News/Talk. What data supports that cume is down by a third when Nielsen says it's down about 5-6%?
 
umfan said:
So, David, do you have hard data on the cume to support your contention that cume is down for News/Talk despite their higher share or not? Yes, overall cume may be down, but I've seen nothing to support that cume is down for News/Talk. What data supports that cume is down by a third when Nielsen says it's down about 5-6%?
Click to expand...

Here are a couple of markets on 25-54 vs. February numbers:

NYC
WABC off 25%
WOR off 30%
WNYC AM off 35%
WNYC FM off 33%

LA
KABC off 10% (number too low to be at a confidence level)
KFI off 20%
KRLA off 33%
KEIB off 45%
 
Newstalk sweep in Washington DC where WMAL, WAMU and WTOP are tops (beauty contest numbers of course). I'm sure WTOP kills it with cume whereas WMAL bumps ahead factoring TSL.

I've always wondered where WCSP ranked among DC ratings? I know they don't really care, and I doubt it's high, but I'm sure some low level ratings considering the market.
 
DXingRadio said:
Newstalk sweep in Washington DC where WMAL, WAMU and WTOP are tops (beauty contest numbers of course). I'm sure WTOP kills it with cume whereas WMAL bumps ahead factoring TSL.
Click to expand...

Remember, to even stay equal in rating, the share has to double in April.
 
installLSC said:
What ratings are advertisers using when making radio buys, the most recent ratings or the pre-shutdown numbers?
Click to expand...

Probably Sept, Oct, Nov, Jan, Feb average. Many ratings-based buyers use a 3 to 6 month average, and they skip December and Holiday. Now, they will skip the months from March onward until we have anew normal established.

Nielsen sent a clients-only memo on Monday suggesting that March and April not be used as a basis for advertising buys as the numbers are not typical and will not represent normal listening levels.
 
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