Why do certain radio stations air their legal ID in the middle of the hour?

[CTListener]

A "natural break" is any point where, in the reasoned opinion of the licensee, the ID does not interrupt the flow of the station's programming. One can, and it has long been accepted, not ID between movements of a symphony despite the thinking of some that "they are separate cuts on the album". To a classical programmer, the movements are intended to be heard sequentially, without anything else between them.

Not long ago, I heard one of the hosts at WMNR Monroe, CT, remark on the length of Mahler's Ninth, which he had just played in full, all 90 minutes of it. Unfortunately I only caught the end of the piece and wasn't listening at the top of the hour. I can't see any way he could have avoided having to slip a legal ID in somewhere, no matter where on the clock the piece started, do you?

I've also heard the Mahler piece on Sirius XM, but, of course, satellite radio isn't bound by the FCC voice ID rules, and its individual channels don't have call letters anyway.

WMNR is a community station and its hosts are all volunteers, but it does have a recorded fully legal ID that it plays within 5 minutes of the top of the hour, normally. I often wonder what happens, if anything, to similar stations who allow their non-professional specialty show hosts to vary from the formula. WPPB Southampton, NY, and WPKN, Bridgeport, CT, have several who go call letters-frequency-city, or call letters-"right here in"-city, or something similar, and I still recall with a smile to this day hearing the jock on a weekend soul request show on MIT's old WTBS Cambridge, in the '70s, smoothly recite "You got WTBS, 88.1 on the FM side of yo' radio slide, in Cambridge!" I'd hate to think he cost the station money by doing that.

 

[davideduardo]

WMNR is a community station and its hosts are all volunteers, but it does have a recorded fully legal ID that it plays within 5 minutes of the top of the hour, normally. I often wonder what happens, if anything, to similar stations who allow their non-professional specialty show hosts to vary from the formula. WPPB Southampton, NY, and WPKN, Bridgeport, CT, have several who go call letters-frequency-city, or call letters-"right here in"-city, or something similar, and I still recall with a smile to this day hearing the jock on a weekend soul request show on MIT's old WTBS Cambridge, in the '70s, smoothly recite "You got WTBS, 88.1 on the FM side of yo' radio slide, in Cambridge!" I'd hate to think he cost the station money by doing that.

You can put certain things between calls and COL: The transmitting station may insert between its call letters and its community of license the following information: the frequency of the transmitting station, the channel number of the transmitting station, the name of the licensee of the transmitting station and the licensee providing the programming, and/or the name of the network of either station.

 

[b-turner]

As far as a classical work goes, if it clocks in at 90 minutes, you can ID both sides of the work. I recall asking about a lengthy piece that ran about 2 hours and 4 minutes. The piece was subtitled "Musical Calendar" and the PD felt a natural break was at the end of a season (The piece was grouped by month and by season). The FCC made clear they believe the conclusion of an act as a natural break in programming for an opera. That begs the question if an act in a ballet is a natural break.

 

[davideduardo]

As far as a classical work goes, if it clocks in at 90 minutes, you can ID both sides of the work. I recall asking about a lengthy piece that ran about 2 hours and 4 minutes. The piece was subtitled "Musical Calendar" and the PD felt a natural break was at the end of a season (The piece was grouped by month and by season). The FCC made clear they believe the conclusion of an act as a natural break in programming for an opera. That begs the question if an act in a ballet is a natural break.

The FCC gave wide discretionary powers to stations programming classical, including opera.

When performed live, Opera almost always has an intermission. That would indicate that there are natural breaks, even if sometimes those are due to issues such as changes in the stage and other logistics.

A classical music symphony is intended... and was written... to be performed without interruption. Any pauses are for dramatic effect, not "natural breaks" that can be interrupted. So going 90 minutes with no ID was not an infraction for such formatted stations, ever.

Of course, light classics and Boston Pops type material often consists of single movements or fragments of a symphony, played alone as if it were intended to stand alone. Purists have long rejected this a "trying to eat with one tooth".

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

Since there is no evidence of FCC violation notices related to this over the last 30 years, we can assume that those IDs at the end of a stopset or even buried inside the stopset are considered to be a proper fulfillment of the legal requirement.

You’ll want to rethink that one. Entercom’s Sacramento station KZBC (now KUDL) was cited in 2010 for burying the legal ID at :50 when they were running a liner at the top of the hour.

And since Congress apparently expects the FCC to become self-sustaining by constantly cutting its budget, there may come a time when they decide to start enforcing this rule. Judging by the number of stations I hear which violate this rule, they’ll have no trouble making their budget and then some.

 

[TheBigA]

And since Congress apparently expects the FCC to become self-sustaining by constantly cutting its budget, there may come a time when they decide to start enforcing this rule. Judging by the number of stations I hear which violate this rule, they’ll have no trouble making their budget and then some.

Then again, in order to enforce this rule they either need to increase their own staff to monitor stations, or they need to compensate the public to become tattle tales. Last time I checked, Congress was telling them to close down their remote offices around the country.

 

[davideduardo]

You’ll want to rethink that one. Entercom’s Sacramento station KZBC (now KUDL) was cited in 2010 for burying the legal ID at :50 when they were running a liner at the top of the hour.

I can find no reference to this in the station's FCC files, its public file or in any industry publication. Do you have citation?

There are thousands of music FM's that ID at the beginning or end of a music sweep. The FCC has never, in my experience, objected as long as the ID includes calls and COL with only the permitted items in between and is "as close to the top of the hour as possible in a natural program break".

A liner enhances music flow. An ID is a distraction and is disruptive. Thus, we can say that between songs is not a natural break.

 

[davideduardo]

Then again, in order to enforce this rule they either need to increase their own staff to monitor stations, or they need to compensate the public to become tattle tales. Last time I checked, Congress was telling them to close down their remote offices around the country.

And they are actually sensible enough to know that call letter IDs are an anachronism and aggressive enforcement of the ID rule would distract from matters of true importance.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

When I worked for a country station in Pennsylvania, this is how we did the legal id during hours when we didnt have any news or weather at top of hour

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WEkxBq0kYHDukkSVMjFGSlQcnzpweWvo/view?usp=sharing

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

Do you have citation?

File No. EB-09-SF-0061
NOV No. V201032960002

NOV issued March 5, 2010. I can’t see any evidence of an NALF, so I’d guess Entercom’s reply put the issue to rest. But the FCC is apparently not ignoring the issue either.

 

[Don CT]

I thought by rule the legal ID has to be within 5 minutes of the top of the hour.

 

[b-turner]

There has never been such a rule mentioning 5 minutes either side from the FCC since I entered radio in 1975. It was always at a natural break in programming as close to the top of the hour as feasible. Many owners, managers and program directors set 'time' restraints to encourage jocks to do legal IDs.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

There has never been such a rule mentioning 5 minutes either side from the FCC since I entered radio in 1975. It was always at a natural break in programming as close to the top of the hour as feasible. Many owners, managers and program directors set 'time' restraints to encourage jocks to do legal IDs.

The rule when I started (1969) was plus or minus two minutes on the hour and half-hour. However, the exception for lengthy musical works which would run past those windows of time was already in place then. After that, the half-hour ID was dropped, followed by the two-minute window.

 

[davideduardo]

There has never been such a rule mentioning 5 minutes either side from the FCC since I entered radio in 1975. It was always at a natural break in programming as close to the top of the hour as feasible. Many owners, managers and program directors set 'time' restraints to encourage jocks to do legal IDs.

I've looked through the FCC rules from a number of years between the +/- 2 minute rule in effect when I first managed a US station in 1970 through the time when the "natural break" rule came into effect and find no 5-minute rule.

I agree with you: that sounds like an internal rule set by a station for the staff.

 

[bobdavcav]

I personally don't mind legals that play coming out of stopsets, as long as those stopsets are themselves timed to end at the top of the hour or close to it. The ones I don't understand are stations that do this with stopsets ending at 40 or 50.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

I personally don't mind legals that play coming out of stopsets, as long as those stopsets are themselves timed to end at the top of the hour or close to it. The ones I don't understand are stations that do this with stopsets ending at 40 or 50.

who cares? only radio geeks. so what if the station i work at ran a 50 after stop set and then said a quick "klmi rock river, laramie" into a song at 52 after? listeners dont even notice or give a rats carcass

 

[bobdavcav]

Valid point, but the reason this thread is already four pages long is because there re many folks on this board who do care. My question to you is do your listeners really care whether your breaks end at :52 or :00? It's been my experience that they don't, as I've been in cars with plenty of people who flip from one station to another at a commercial break, when I know the station they've flipped to is also in commercial.

 

[davideduardo]

Valid point, but the reason this thread is already four pages long is because there re many folks on this board who do care. My question to you is do your listeners really care whether your breaks end at :52 or :00? It's been my experience that they don't, as I've been in cars with plenty of people who flip from one station to another at a commercial break, when I know the station they've flipped to is also in commercial.

The reason for the break placement in the top 48 PPM markets is to try to get as many minutes worth of credit in the quarter hour. With 5 consecutive or scattered minutes, you get a credit for one quarter hour. The idea is if the break is in the middle, you can get the beginning credit even if there is tune out.

 

[davideduardo]

I personally don't mind legals that play coming out of stopsets, as long as those stopsets are themselves timed to end at the top of the hour or close to it. The ones I don't understand are stations that do this with stopsets ending at 40 or 50.

The ID is an anachronism. It is no longer necessary. Stations, in the vast, immense majority, ID by a name, not the call letters.

But the FCC does not get this. As they fail to get so many things.

So we put the ID, in compliance with the rules, in a "natural break" in the programming. That is often right at the start or end of a commercial break.

 

[CTListener]

The ID is an anachronism. It is no longer necessary. Stations, in the vast, immense majority, ID by a name, not the call letters.

Although listeners to Top 40 radio from the '60s well into the '80s will remember the big production numbers that those stations' top-of-the-hour IDs were. Drum roll, big-voiced announcer proclaiming, "And now, ladies and gentlemen, Johnny Dark, on WRKO Boston!," upbeat jingle "68 RKO!," then, always, an uptempo song with a punchy intro: "Gimme Some Lovin'," "Taking Care of Business," "Don't Pull Your Love." Never would you hear "Tell It Like It Is" or "Colour My World" at the top of the hour.

Now, I suppose, it doesn't matter what gets played after the legal ID. Besides, since rhythmic now rules, everything CHR plays is uptempo anyway.