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K18AA Salina translator of KCKT (now KSNC), Great Bend

Anyone remember K18AA Salina?
I remember the station ID from the Great Bend NBC affiliate, channel 2.
Imagine 2's signal didn't make it well into Salina, nor did KARD's (now KSNW), the NBC affiliate out of Wichita.
I see KAKE, the ABC affiliate in Wichita, had a translator in Salina.
I don't think KSNW or KAKE's signal made it to Salina, as TV signals don't go much farther than 60-70 miles, due to the earth's curvature, despite Kansas' relatively level geography.

Here are the Wichita translator stations from the 1985 TV Guide:

Satellites - For programs on 18 Salina, see 2; on 10 Goodland (KLOE-TV), see 7; on 64 Concordia, 66 Phillipsburg, 69 Hoxie, see 9; on 34 Salina, 70 Hays/Manhattan, 71 Great Bend/Herington, 75 Russell/Junction City, see 10.
 
I think this translator later became KSAS satellite KAAS. I can imagine KSN's over-the-air audience on ch 18 started to dwindle as cable became more readily available. I'm looking at some microfilm now of the Salina Journal on newspapers.com. By 1990 they had a 35-channel cable system that included both KWCH and WIBW for CBS, KAKE (ABC), KSNW (NBC), KSAS (FOX), KOOD (PBS) and three Kansas City stations - WDAF, KMBC and KSHB. I suppose the former two were blacked out a lot after SyndEx went into effect. Not to mention a variety of cable networks plus WGN. Meanwhile, they also listed MANY other ABC, NBC and CBS affiliates all over NE and KS. Some as far as KPNE-9 North Platte (PBS) and KBSL-10 Goodland (CBS).
 
KTVH (now KWCH), 12, in Hutchinson, once had a translator in Arkansas City.
It was shut down a long time ago.
Imagine 12's signal, being east of Hutch, didn't reach into Ark City, unlike 3 and 10, which barely covered that area, according to signal maps.
 
Anyone remember K18AA Salina?
I remember the station ID from the Great Bend NBC affiliate, channel 2.
Imagine 2's signal didn't make it well into Salina, nor did KARD's (now KSNW), the NBC affiliate out of Wichita.
I see KAKE, the ABC affiliate in Wichita, had a translator in Salina.
I don't think KSNW or KAKE's signal made it to Salina, as TV signals don't go much farther than 60-70 miles, due to the earth's curvature, despite Kansas' relatively level geography.

Here are the Wichita translator stations from the 1985 TV Guide:

Satellites - For programs on 18 Salina, see 2; on 10 Goodland (KLOE-TV), see 7; on 64 Concordia, 66 Phillipsburg, 69 Hoxie, see 9; on 34 Salina, 70 Hays/Manhattan, 71 Great Bend/Herington, 75 Russell/Junction City, see 10.
I do remember getting K18AA. It filled in a gap of NBC coverage when I would make the trip from Denver to KC (or vice versa) back in the early '80s. I had a 5" color TV in my van with a decent omnidirectional antenna mounted on the roof

KTSB 27 (Topeka) would carry almost to Junction City, then I had nothing until just west of Abilene, when I would get K18AA. That lasted until about 5 miles east of the KS 156 junction on I-70, then I could start getting a spotty KCKT 2 (Great Bend) which lasted until around Hays. No NBC then until around Grainfield when KOMC 8 (Oberlin) would start coming in which lasted until around Goodland. Then another NBC "desert" until Byers, CO when KOA 4 (Denver) would start coming in
 
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And I assume KOA 4 was via UHF translators all over eastern CO. They had (or still have) a bunch as KCNC.
 
And I assume KOA 4 was via UHF translators all over eastern CO. They had (or still have) a bunch as KCNC.
Now that you mention it, there was indeed a translator in Flagler for the Denver channels. Low power and the channel numbers were in the 70s - only good for about 10 miles, if that
 
Anyone remember K18AA Salina?
I remember the station ID from the Great Bend NBC affiliate, channel 2.
Imagine 2's signal didn't make it well into Salina, nor did KARD's (now KSNW), the NBC affiliate out of Wichita.
I see KAKE, the ABC affiliate in Wichita, had a translator in Salina.
I don't think KSNW or KAKE's signal made it to Salina, as TV signals don't go much farther than 60-70 miles, due to the earth's curvature, despite Kansas' relatively level geography.

Here are the Wichita translator stations from the 1985 TV Guide:

Satellites - For programs on 18 Salina, see 2; on 10 Goodland (KLOE-TV), see 7; on 64 Concordia, 66 Phillipsburg, 69 Hoxie, see 9; on 34 Salina, 70 Hays/Manhattan, 71 Great Bend/Herington, 75 Russell/Junction City, see 10.

K18AA is now KSNL-LD, having moved to channel 6 when channel 18 started up. It didn't become KSAS but it was displaced by it (as a translator operating on a channel with a full-power allocation to the same community).

KSN had been in Salina since 1964. The original translator was on channel 74 for a couple years before relocating to 18. KSN's translator initially competed with Salina's original TV station, KSLN-TV 34, which to be quite honest was one weird facility: a "glorified translator" with an ERP of 724 watts. KSLN tried operating twice with two owners, who both lost a lot of money in the attempt; the second time, they went off and jumped into a futile attempt to try and move to the VHF band.

With the translators that KSN and KAKE still have, the histories are pretty much straight lines from the original facilities above channel 70 to today, though the Manhattan, Herington and Junction City translators of KAKE were abandoned before being moved down. KAKE shuttered its Manhattan translator at the end of 1985 and donated the tower site.
 
Now that you mention it, there was indeed a translator in Flagler for the Denver channels. Low power and the channel numbers were in the 70s - only good for about 10 miles, if that
The good ole' days of UHF translators in the cell phone band. At one point, we had three in Ellensburg, all relaying Yakima TV. The highest was channel 81 with KAPP/ABC in the early '80s. After about 1985-86, they all went down below ch 70.
 
The good ole' days of UHF translators in the cell phone band. At one point, we had three in Ellensburg, all relaying Yakima TV. The highest was channel 81 with KAPP/ABC in the early '80s. After about 1985-86, they all went down below ch 70.
Hard to think today that UHF channels were that high! Channel 83 (884 to 890 MHz) - was it ever actually used?
 
Yup, Channel 83 was used by UHF translators. KHQ in Spokane maintained K83AJ in Quincy for many years, before it went down to channel 48. There were about 15 others in the western U.S. and Midwest.
 
It's a shame that they have peeled off so much of the UHF band. If we still had UHF channels 14 through 83, that would be a staggering amount of possibilities for digital subchannels. This cramdown of all UHF into channels 14-36 doesn't leave a lot of room for error in channel allocations and short-spacing.
 
It's a shame that they have peeled off so much of the UHF band. If we still had UHF channels 14 through 83, that would be a staggering amount of possibilities for digital subchannels. This cramdown of all UHF into channels 14-36 doesn't leave a lot of room for error in channel allocations and short-spacing.
With the possibility of assigning adjacent digital RF channels (instead of spacing them 6 channels apart like in the analog days), there's as much room on Channels 14-36 as there was on 14-69 in the analog days. The days of translators on Channels 70-83 came and went fairly quickly, and there were never many full-powered stations in that segment, even in the 1950s.
 
Advancements in cable, too. When the channel 70-83 translators were popping up in the '60s, cable was not readily available to rural viewers. Long-time Ellensburg residents remember having to watch spotty Yakima signals on a high UHF translator. KIMA (29) was on 71 until 1985 when it moved to 51. KAPP and KNDO also had UHF translators above channel 69 prior to the mid-'80s.
For those that were very rural (the nearest TV was 40-80 miles away), translators were what everyone watched...if they could. Back then they had to go through daisy chains of translator to translator to translator in some places. I bought a bunch of pre-recorded blank VHS tapes from eBay a couple of years back that came from McGill, NV, near Ely. SLC stations maintained translators out there, 175 miles away. I found a recording of some movie taped off KSL that was in terrible quality, multi pathed (but color), and the audio was very weak. I'm sure the signal was strong, but the originating signal that was being brought to Ely was not. It had to have been brought by another translator and the Ely translator antenna pointed towards the next one down the line.

Those farmers and rural residents that were rich could afford C-Band and bypass the translators. But that wasn't until the early to middle 1980s. Still, there was not a broadcast TV station of ABC, NBC, or CBS relayed to C-Band until about 1988, when Primetime 24 came around and started carrying WRAL, WXIA, and WABC for the east, and Denver stations for the west and Intermountain region. Anyone who wanted to watch a CBS program and had a C-Band dish (prior to 1987 or 1988) had to tune to Telstar 301/302 and watch the raw feed with black screen in the local breaks.
 
With the possibility of assigning adjacent digital RF channels (instead of spacing them 6 channels apart like in the analog days), there's as much room on Channels 14-36 as there was on 14-69 in the analog days. The days of translators on Channels 70-83 came and went fairly quickly, and there were never many full-powered stations in that segment, even in the 1950s.
Back in the earliest days of TV, if UHF had possessed tuning parity with VHF, it's hard telling how many TV markets would have sprung up, in fact, if I'm understanding the situation correctly, the expectation was that many smaller communities would also have TV stations, and I'm not sure anyone sat down and thought of, for instance (using South Carolina as an example), a Columbia market, a Camden-Sumter market, a Myrtle Beach-Georgetown market, a Florence market, and so on. Except in the larger cities, I'm not sure that network affiliations were a well-thought-out thing either. The more "democratic" --- for lack of a better word --- approach would have been to do away with VHF TV all together, reassign those frequencies to an expanded FM radio band, public safety, utilities, and so on, and make all TV UHF in a 70-channel universe. Even 70 channels would have been oceans of spectrum, and making TV UHF-only might have acted as a driver to develop detent tuners and suitable antennas sooner than they were. With the advent of digital, and more efficient use of spectrum for subchannels, then, as you point out, reducing the number of channels might have been entirely feasible. What concerns me nowadays is all of the short-spacing, and creating reception problems that would be obviated even if the UHF band went from channels 14 through 51, let alone 69 or even 83. I have one station here in Columbia (WZRB-47) that is very difficult to get --- I have to position my antenna just-so --- because it shares OTA channel 25 with stations in Charlotte and Charleston. I have a pet theory that the short-spacing is going to make getting TV from distant markets much more difficult than it otherwise would be --- two equidistant, or nearly enough so, stations playing thumb-war with one another ends up cancelling out both. I even have to wonder if this is partially by design, to force viewers to watch one market and one market only, something that definitely serves the interests of local broadcasters. Local advertisers want you watching their ads, not the ads for the next market over, someplace you might either never go for shopping, etc., or on the other hand, someplace you might come to prefer going to, instead of keeping your business local. There are far more products and services available in Charlotte than there are in Florence or even Columbia. People in someplace such as Portsmouth, Ohio, can get to Columbus about as easily as they can get to Charleston, West Virginia, with the added fillip of its being a much larger city, more interesting place to shop, visit, dine, and so on, and being in the same state on top of that. Charleston might as well be in a foreign country to viewers in Portsmouth, or even Ashland or Ironton for that matter.
 
Advancements in cable, too. When the channel 70-83 translators were popping up in the '60s, cable was not readily available to rural viewers. Long-time Ellensburg residents remember having to watch spotty Yakima signals on a high UHF translator. KIMA (29) was on 71 until 1985 when it moved to 51. KAPP and KNDO also had UHF translators above channel 69 prior to the mid-'80s.
For those that were very rural (the nearest TV was 40-80 miles away), translators were what everyone watched...if they could. Back then they had to go through daisy chains of translator to translator to translator in some places. I bought a bunch of pre-recorded blank VHS tapes from eBay a couple of years back that came from McGill, NV, near Ely. SLC stations maintained translators out there, 175 miles away. I found a recording of some movie taped off KSL that was in terrible quality, multi pathed (but color), and the audio was very weak. I'm sure the signal was strong, but the originating signal that was being brought to Ely was not. It had to have been brought by another translator and the Ely translator antenna pointed towards the next one down the line.

Those farmers and rural residents that were rich could afford C-Band and bypass the translators. But that wasn't until the early to middle 1980s. Still, there was not a broadcast TV station of ABC, NBC, or CBS relayed to C-Band until about 1988, when Primetime 24 came around and started carrying WRAL, WXIA, and WABC for the east, and Denver stations for the west and Intermountain region. Anyone who wanted to watch a CBS program and had a C-Band dish (prior to 1987 or 1988) had to tune to Telstar 301/302 and watch the raw feed with black screen in the local breaks.

I remember the SLC translator relays delivering a poor-quality signal as well. When I was in Green River in 1985, I noted that SLC stations on cable were almost unwatchable, and I was not aware of the "daisy chain" translator and microwave networks at that time, so I just assumed they found some way to get the signal straight from SLC to Green River OTA (and they may well have in that instance). I do know that when you send a signal over enough microwave hops, there is a certain degradation factor that I could only compare to watching the signal through waxed paper. Has anyone else noticed this?
 
Local advertisers want you watching their ads, not the ads for the next market over, someplace you might either never go for shopping, etc., or on the other hand, someplace you might come to prefer going to, instead of keeping your business local.
When SyndEx was passed into law, many Ellensburg residents were pi$$ed. They preferred the higher-quality images that came out of KOMO, KING, or KIRO in Seattle, compared to the small-town quality of the Yakima stations. Even with blackouts, KOMO and KING are still carried for news and certain syndicated programs BECAUSE of the locals' opinions. We have a lot of Ellensburg residents now who are originally from western Washington. Some who watch Yakima news find it laughable - and likely for good reason. At least two Seattle TV stations were on Ellensburg cable in the early to mid-1960s, so it's not like they were recently added (in the '80s).

Did Green River offer KTWO for a cleaner NBC feed? Of course, they've had a local CBS since the 1970s. In 1985, the calls were KWWY, channel 13, now it's KGWR.
 
When SyndEx was passed into law, many Ellensburg residents were pi$$ed. They preferred the higher-quality images that came out of KOMO, KING, or KIRO in Seattle, compared to the small-town quality of the Yakima stations. Even with blackouts, KOMO and KING are still carried for news and certain syndicated programs BECAUSE of the locals' opinions. We have a lot of Ellensburg residents now who are originally from western Washington. Some who watch Yakima news find it laughable - and likely for good reason. At least two Seattle TV stations were on Ellensburg cable in the early to mid-1960s, so it's not like they were recently added (in the '80s).

Did Green River offer KTWO for a cleaner NBC feed? Of course, they've had a local CBS since the 1970s. In 1985, the calls were KWWY, channel 13, now it's KGWR.
I'm referring to Green River, Utah. The stations in Grand Junction, Colorado are a bit closer, but for many reasons, including cultural (most of all the influence of the LDS church), people throughout Utah prefer to watch SLC stations. Utah basically revolves around SLC and Provo. St George and Cedar City would make sense as a free-standing market, but it's never rattled out that way --- that would be one very small market.

I think people tend to prefer, all other things held equal, stations from larger cities and/or within their own state. I can't help but think of smaller markets that have managed to get all (or almost all) of the major networks on subchannels or LPTVs within their own markets, and how this has effectively cut them off, in some cases, from the crisper, more professional big-city newscasts and advertising of a greater range of products and services, as network exclusivity drives competition off cable or dish in favor of local broadcasters. There is the potential for viewers in places such as Lima (OH) and Harrisonburg (VA) to be "stuck" with what is basically a single news operation, when many of them would prefer to watch Toledo or Washington, at least as a supplemental news source for state or regional news, with well-known and highly professional anchors. And let's face it, small-market stations end up weighted heavily towards younger, recently-graduated news talent that are just passing through on their way to something bigger and better.
 
I remember reading in some old Broadcasting Yearbooks from the late 1980's to early 1990's that the Kansas City, MO TV stations used to have translators on Ch. 70-83 in North central Missouri. I don't know when they were gotten rid of & I don't think they were mentioned in any station id's.
 
I remember reading in some old Broadcasting Yearbooks from the late 1980's to early 1990's that the Kansas City, MO TV stations used to have translators on Ch. 70-83 in North central Missouri. I don't know when they were gotten rid of & I don't think they were mentioned in any station id's.
I don't think there was anything inherently "wrong" with those frequencies, true, the antennas get smaller and smaller as you go up the band, but their downfall may have been being way, way up on the dial, this and the continuous tuners that were more like radio dials. The refinement of UHF detent tuners, if implemented early enough, might have saved high-channel UHF, and with digital tuners, it wouldn't even be an issue aside from forcing people to select a high channel number. That is something people have pretty much gotten totally used to, with the advent of dedicated cable boxes and converters.
 
And let's face it, small-market stations end up weighted heavily towards younger, recently-graduated news talent that are just passing through on their way to something bigger and better.
That's not surprising as many of those stations pay barely anything at all.
It's difficult to remain at a station when it's hard to pay for your meals and apartment.
 
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