Entercom's alternative experiment not a success?

[TheBigA]

I wonder how many independent listener supported full signal (an A, B or C class) FMs have converted to listener support in the last decade that are not affiliated with NPR or a religious group´.

My point is it's easy to complain about big corporate radio. Much harder to present an alternative.

And as big as corporate radio is, the companies are smaller and poorer than Sirius, Spotify, and Apple.

 

[tall_guy1]

KRBZ in kc was "true" alternative before the cbs merger in 2017. They would rarely play songs that were "crossovers" and most of the songs were unknown currents, like weqx. Cbs slowly chipped away at that, added more mainstream alt-pop to their playlist, which drove audiences away. In 2016, playing true alternative, the buzz was up to a 7.2 rating in the 6+. It can be done.

 

[tall_guy1]

If entercom really wanted to go this route, they could revive the modern ac fotmat on these stations and add in artists like maroon 5 to their playlist if they are bent on this slant.

 

[macattack]

KRBZ in kc was "true" alternative before the cbs merger in 2017. They would rarely play songs that were "crossovers" and most of the songs were unknown currents, like weqx. Cbs slowly chipped away at that, added more mainstream alt-pop to their playlist, which drove audiences away. In 2016, playing true alternative, the buzz was up to a 7.2 rating in the 6+. It can be done.

KPNT is 8.3 in St. Louis in the most recent 6+ book. Living proof it can still be done.

(and perhaps a sign that Alt audiences are ready for guitars to come back)

 

[davideduardo]

If entercom really wanted to go this route, they could revive the modern ac fotmat on these stations and add in artists like maroon 5 to their playlist if they are bent on this slant.

It would be hard to believe that they have not already researched this option and discarded it.

 

[tall_guy1]

Not quite. They're trying this current thing out in an attempt to try something new to get the tiktok audience, but I'm guessing a modern ac format is a more tried-and-true (at least in the past) model that would probably work better than what they're attempting today, if they're not going to try to be actually alternative anymore.

 

[TheBigA]

Not quite. They're trying this current thing out in an attempt to try something new to get the tiktok audience,

Hmm, have you looked at the TikTok Top 100? Alt seems a bit old for them. And a bit too conservative.

 

[landtuna]

I didn't know Tik Tok had a Top 100 playlist. Just looked at it. UGH! What a steaming pile of .......you know.

Glad I am not a teenager these days.

 

[davideduardo]

Glad I am not a teenager these days.

I'll bet the teens are, too.

"Generation Gaps" are nothing new... they just seem to occur at shorter intervals than in the past. Most people... and this explains the core of radio formats... tend to stick with what they were attached to when they reached puberty. Some may broaden their horizons, some may find each new "wave" to be fun and exciting, but the majority stick with the familiar and comfortable styles of music.

 

[TheBigA]

that would probably work better than what they're attempting today, if they're not going to try to be actually alternative anymore.

Here's what I see in looking at the Audacy station playlists, including Kansas City: If you're a heritage alt band such as the Foo Fighters, they'd rather play your established hits than your new stuff. If you're a recent band such as Cage The Elephant or Imagine Dragons, they'll play your current stuff. But beyond that, they're looking to play new stuff by new artists who are connecting with the audience in social media and streaming sites, such as The Kid Laroi. That's how it looks to me.

 

[BeachBaby]

It's a great example. Not every radio station in the country has to be part of a megamillion dollar corporation to be successful. In fact, I'll bet the owner of WEQX isn't millions of dollars in debt, unlike most of the corporations you admire.

I'm pretty sure the bank note was paid off two decades ago, or close to it. Unless the controlling owner has used it for collateral, as long as they are running in the black, they're fine and have the ability to pivot and flex as times change.

Albany is a heritage market for commercial alternative, from 1982 on, and also had a thriving college radio scene. At one point Albany had something like a 5-way battle going on with alternative and AAA with a public radio station in the mix, too. EQX has gone through a number of variations in its format presentation over the years, and current PD Jeff Mo'rad does a fantastic job. I just worry that his decision to stay put in the area is making it more difficult for a younger generation to build and launch their own careers. But then, maybe radio is over for career choices anyway.

Maybe the owner likes being the GM, GSM and Traffic Manager, and doesn't have to worry if they'll have a still job next quarter.

Maybe the owner is thrilled with that kind of income, loves living in a beautiful town in Vermont and has no interest in living in the city and working for someone else in Albany.

Maybe the owner is proud to have a radio station that's known well beyond its local coverage area, and has received repeated accolades from local and national media.

Success isn't just measured by how much growth you can get quarter after quarter after quarter. That's the measure of success on Wall Street, not Main Street, and it's never enough for them anyway.

WEQX stands as a model of what radio can and should be in America. The proverbial "mom and pop" station that we're all told no longer fits in a corporate radio landscape. But thankfully it does.

 

[tall_guy1]

Imo, I would have gone the other way and removed eilish, ajr, ect. from the playlists and focused just on broad-based indie and alternative rock and let pop have all the alt-pop acts. People still visit sites like pitchfork, and indie rock is still being released, so I'd focus my efforts on making it work like it did in 2013.

 

[TheBigA]

People still visit sites like pitchfork, and indie rock is still being released, so I'd focus my efforts on making it work like it did in 2013.

What kind of numbers do you see with indie rock vs Eilish and the others? It's not bout personal taste, but numbers.

 

[davideduardo]

KRBZ in kc was "true" alternative before the cbs merger in 2017. They would rarely play songs that were "crossovers" and most of the songs were unknown currents, like weqx. Cbs slowly chipped away at that, added more mainstream alt-pop to their playlist, which drove audiences away. In 2016, playing true alternative, the buzz was up to a 7.2 rating in the 6+. It can be done.

That's not quite accurate.

The highest Spring (Apr-May-Jun) or Fall (Oct-Nov-Dec) PPM averages I can find are an abnormal 6.6 in Fall of '16. Spring of 2016 was a 4.9 and Spring of ´17 was a 4.5. From then on, it went to a 3.8, a 3.4 and after Spring of 2018 never got into the 3's again.

Entercom bought KRBZ from Sinclair in 1999, so they seem to have done well with it for the first 15 to 16 years, and then it disintegrated. Since Entercom got rid of most of the CBS staff that was "too expensive" I would look elsewhere for the reasons why from 2016 on it started decaying bit by bit.

Entercom did not "merge" with CBS. The sale was done by a Reverse Morris Trust where CBS shareholders, not the company, got a percentage of Entercom's shares. CBS, the corporation, was left with no part of Entercom and most of its top radio executives left or were "downsized" soon after.

 

[davideduardo]

I'm pretty sure the bank note was paid off two decades ago, or close to it. Unless the controlling owner has used it for collateral, as long as they are running in the black, they're fine and have the ability to pivot and flex as times change.

They don't bill enough to either pivot or flex. That has to be a very frugal operation, and the owner likely does not make very much even in a good year. I'll bet they lost considerable revenue in 2020.

EQX has gone through a number of variations in its format presentation over the years, and current PD Jeff Mo'rad does a fantastic job. I just worry that his decision to stay put in the area is making it more difficult for a younger generation to build and launch their own careers. But then, maybe radio is over for career choices anyway.

Why would a person who is likely making a mediocre salary at a lower revenue station decide to retire and make way for a younger person? What person who works for a company that has no full retirement plan other than, maybe, a 401-k, is going to leave a job that perhaps they like a lot to enable a younger person to take the position? That sounds like a movie on the Hallmark Channel.

 

[tall_guy1]

TikTok is a great way to see what a younger audience likes to listen to, and it should have some impact in what plays on the radio IF it fits format. And if you look at what songs are going viral because of TikTok, you can see that alternative rock still has a place in Gen Z’s playlists. “Cloud 9” by Beach Bunny, “Space Girl” by Frances Forever, and “Jealous” by Eyedress are all notable currents that are first and foremost alternative music. All are absent from the radio stations unofficially known as “The home of TikTok’s greatest hits!”, but I’ll give leeway on “Cloud 9” because it only went viral recently. TL;DR TikTok is a great tool. Don’t underestimate its ability to find format-friendly music.

And an easy way to track that is look at www.tiktok-charts.com

Yes, it lists the Top 100 songs on TikTok.

It would be hard to believe that they have not already researched this option and discarded it.

What kind of numbers do you see with indie rock vs Eilish and the others? It's not bout personal taste, but numbers.

I think it's a situation where even if people "tune in" to those songs, it hurts their bottom line to have them on the playlist because of the way they are perceived by alternative listeners (look at their social media comments on several of the stations, including 94.7 in portland to see.)

 

[TheBigA]

I think it's a situation where even if people "tune in" to those songs, it hurts their bottom line to have them on the playlist because of the way they are perceived by alternative listeners (look at their social media comments on several of the stations, including 94.7 in portland to see.)

Once again, we need real numbers. Comments don't count. For all we know those comments could come from non-listeners.

We've seen this with country fans time and again. You have fans of one style of country music claim that what's being played isn't really country. That's their opinion.

 

[tall_guy1]

Once again, we need real numbers. Comments don't count. For all we know those comments could come from non-listeners.

We've seen this with country fans time and again. You have fans of one style of country music claim that what's being played isn't really country. That's their opinion.

Yeah, but entercom/audacy already ignores big charting songs like foo fighters, kings of leon and weezer which are in the top 10, so I think doing things a different way would be to their advantage... I don't have numbers, but I'm a listener and know several pitchfork readers who wouldn't be able to stand what they currently play (they're in different cities now.)

 

[TheBigA]

Yeah, but entercom/audacy already ignores big charting songs like foo fighters, kings of leon and weezer which are in the top 10, so I think doing things a different way would be to their advantage.

They're aiming for a different listener. Five years ago, those three would be in heavy. Now they don't get a spin. Using the country music analogy, five years ago George Strait got 60 #1s. Now he can't get a single spin. It's going to take time to build from scratch. It's a different format with an old name. At some point, they have to make a decision: Are they a classic hits station or a current hits station? It looks like they've made a decision.

The fact that Foo Fighters, Kings of Leon, and Weezer are still in the airplay Top 10 without any spins on Audacy stations says a lot about what's happening in the format.

 

[narp]

They're aiming for a different listener. Five years ago, those three would be in heavy. Now they don't get a spin. Using the country music analogy, five years ago George Strait got 60 #1s. Now he can't get a single spin. It's going to take time to build from scratch. It's a different format with an old name. At some point, they have to make a decision: Are they a classic hits station or a current hits station? It looks like they've made a decision.

The fact that Foo Fighters, Kings of Leon, and Weezer are still in the airplay Top 10 without any spins on Audacy stations says a lot about what's happening in the format.

If anything, it shows how out of touch Audacy is and that their goals are unobtainable in most markets with the way things are being run. I agree that an Audacy “alt” (as in not alt formally but plays a few alt currents) format could be successful, but the ship has already sailed since Kaplan keeps insisting on running things the way he does. Drastic programming changes while still using branding for an alternative station is killing any momentum they could have.