939 MIA flips to Totally 939 All 90’s all the time!

[johntherogger]

Ad rates are based on actual listening levels. A station in Camden, AR, might cover 50,000 people while one in Miami might cover 5,000,000 people. So the Arkansas station might cume 5,000 in the annual county by county Nielsen survey, the one in Miami cumes a half a million or more.

I'll betcha' that the local newspaper... I find one that is a daily in Camdenton... does not charge as much for its 5,000 circulation as the 100,000 that the Miami Herald has, either.

The fact is that in large metro areas, single location businesses are pretty much unable to use mass media like radio, TV and daily papers because their customer base is a tiny part of the metro area but the ad media charge for full market coverage.

I doubt the Lake of the Ozarks region saw that many visitors this year... not tourist based area has done well for the last eight months.

Oh, and in tiny markets like that where stations are owner operated, many of the restaurant ads are trade for the owner to use, not cash deals. Many, many small owner operated stations appear to be unprofitable. But the owner takes a salary and trades everything from their heater/AC unit to their car and their home maintenance. But the business model changes in larger markets where businessmen are more sophisticated and analytical and in many cases use local ad agencies for their campaigns.

And one of my first jobs was summers at WCCW in Traverse City, MI... another tourist based economy. There was very little advertising from tourist attractions because merchants knew... and that was 60 years ago so it is not new news... that tourists did not spend a lot of time listening to local radio stations while on vacation.

Well you and I have very different realities. Nearly every business in the Lake community advertises, especially in the Summer season because in Winter it goes to near dead zero. And we have competing stations doing High school football, the same high school...because there are that many businesses wanting to support it. All the tourists that come here blast our FM on their boat. It's played at nearly every waterfront bar. Hell I see posts on the Facebook groups all the time...."What's the best music station at the lake?" constantly.

And I can assure you those numbers are quite accurate. Look it up...Lake Ozark...the Mayor is all over national media because the entire region has been mask free. They only shut down for 1 month. TMZ did three stories on the area because they were having HUGE events and were not canceling it. The real estate market went so fast that they couldn't keep houses on the market. Places to rent are non-existent. In prior years, we did anywhere from 250,000 to 500,000 tourists per weekend....this year has been off the charts.

And I know all about the owner situation. I helped run the place I work for...I've managed traffic and billing, did sales, on air, news, remotes, board ops, concerts, events....we even produced television shows for 2 major powerboat racing events...us the little radio station, put a TV group together and sold national time.

Maybe we're just different...or maybe it's just a Mid-west thing...but I don't see that kind of stuff happening here. The closest thing to that here is what WAFC does in Clewiston.

 

[MarkW]

Re:

93.9's ratings are sagging already; is anyone surprised? I'm not! (See my July 23 post).

Dang - look at Power 96. Is the current survey Power 96's worst ratings performance ever?

I'd be curious to know how much cross-cume activity is occurring between Power 96 and 93.9. Might 93.9 be largely responsible for Power 96's struggles of late?

Finally, why is 104.3 The Flounder even still on the air? You mean to tell me some flavor of rock or even adult contemporary wouldn't earn better numbers? Hats off to those calling the programming shots on their 24th place finish! A dog passing gas into the microphone would generate stronger numbers.

 

[Groove1670]

93.9's ratings are sagging already; is anyone surprised? I'm not! (See my July 23 post).

Dang - look at Power 96. Is the current survey Power 96's worst ratings performance ever?

I'd be curious to know how much cross-cume activity is occurring between Power 96 and 93.9. Might 93.9 be largely responsible for Power 96's struggles of late?

Finally, why is 104.3 The Flounder even still on the air? You mean to tell me some flavor of rock or even adult contemporary wouldn't earn better numbers? Hats off to those calling the programming shots on their 24th place finish! A dog passing gas into the microphone would generate stronger numbers.

Power 96 programmed several titles prior to the sale that I guess did well in the Miami Market. After the latest sale, the playlist changed. 93.9 is programmed from the mothership. Miami is whole different audience. Some songs work, some don't, and Miami is not the exception. Cox knows the market and in turn adjusts to the market. Just a slight variation of music selection can make a difference.

I would like to know where WSFS is doing well?

 

[MarkW]

Last three surveys for 93.9:
1.6...1.5...1.4.

iHM and most other major broadcasters cannot conduct research worth squat these days. I said last summer once the air escapes the balloon (which wouldn't take long), this station's numbers would fade fast.

Time to blow up this turkey and give 610 WIOD a full power home on the FM dial.

 

[MarkW]

The ratings keep sinking...down to a 1.2 share.

93.9 = proof positive that "big radio's" research and analytics capabilities with regard to listener preferences are flawed at best.

Y100 appears to have opened up a nice lead over Hits 97.3. The "New Hit Music" tagline fails or has failed in so many markets large & small across the Country. Perhaps Cox would've done better in hiring a PD who didn't come from a failed station in Detroit.

 

[davideduardo]

The ratings keep sinking...down to a 1.2 share.

93.9 = proof positive that "big radio's" research and analytics capabilities with regard to listener preferences are flawed at best.

Y100 appears to have opened up a nice lead over Hits 97.3. The "New Hit Music" tagline fails or has failed in so many markets large & small across the Country. Perhaps Cox would've done better in hiring a PD who didn't come from a failed station in Detroit.

Miami is a rather unique situation. Since the groups are using research in one market for application in many, they miss the fact that Miami is really not part of the USA in music tastes. It is a separate, very different atmosphere.

Back in the mid-70's Bill Tanner figured this out quickly and took Y-100 to #1, and proceeded to do the same with two other English formats and then with several in the Spanish language. He got the flavor. Nobody else, particularly Entercom, seems to get this.

Obviously, the excuse is that there is not enough money during the last 12 months of the plague to do research in every city. Unfortunately, there are a couple of big metros in the US that don't behave like the rest of the nation, and we can see how the effects of cutting local research have been very detrimental.

 

[MarkW]

Yet another HORRENDOUS book for the new 93.9. I told all of you guys this station would be a failure after an initial "surge" of decent ratings from curiosity listening.

iHM needs to dump this turkey of a format.

 

[davideduardo]

Re:

I'd be curious to know how much cross-cume activity is occurring between Power 96 and 93.9. Might 93.9 be largely responsible for Power 96's struggles of late?

A big part of the problem with Power 96 is the defection of many bilingual Hispanics to the reggaetón based alternatives in Spanish in Miami. While not just a "Spanish translation" of hip hop, reggaetón is now the dominant Spanish language music form among teens and younger adults across Latin America. In the US, the effect of all rhythmic / reggaetón stations on general market rhythmic stations has been extreme. Look at the huge decline in Power 106 in LA as an example.

 

[MarkW]

Great point; one I admittedly failed to consider!

 

[BocaWayne]

Miami is a rather unique situation. Since the groups are using research in one market for application in many, they miss the fact that Miami is really not part of the USA in music tastes. It is a separate, very different atmosphere.

Back in the mid-70's Bill Tanner figured this out quickly and took Y-100 to #1, and proceeded to do the same with two other English formats and then with several in the Spanish language. He got the flavor. Nobody else, particularly Entercom, seems to get this.

Obviously, the excuse is that there is not enough money during the last 12 months of the plague to do research in every city. Unfortunately, there are a couple of big metros in the US that don't behave like the rest of the nation, and we can see how the effects of cutting local research have been very detrimental.

Would bringing back the old Love 94 really be the worst move at this point? Asking for a friend.

 

[BocaWayne]

Nearly every word in Spanish is either male or female gendered; there are very few gender neutral words and those are "imports" from non-Latin based tongues. In plural, when mixed, it generally defaults to male. Latinos and Latinas together are "Latinos".

Here is a very good and succinct explanation of gender rules in Spanish if anyone wants to dig deeper.

Latino, Latinx, Latine

The "x" suffix is an attempt to make a language that is gender-based into a gender neutral one. Among people I known, nearly nobody over about 30 uses that construct. And among younger Hispanics (a term not everybody likes, either) it seems that the English dominant people like the "X" thing, and the Spanish dominant ones do not.

Or, as a relative from PR said, "we are not Latinos, Latinas, LatinX. We are Puerto Rican."

I don't use Latinx either. Latinx sounds like either the name of a Mexico City dominatrix, a Transformers character or a wild cat species.

 

[davideduardo]

Would bringing back the old Love 94 really be the worst move at this point? Asking for a friend.

That was a format that worked in the diary ratings, with high TSL and lower cume. That just does not work in the PPM.

 

[davideduardo]

I don't use Latinx either. Latinx sounds like either the name of a Mexico City dominatrix, a Transformers character or a wild cat species.

While I am acquainted with some woke Latinx proponents, they are all in their younger 20's. I don't know any Hispanic over that age that likes the term and most find it unpleasant. As I've mentioned, most of my friends and nearly all of my family is Hispanic.

Of course, in my family, the term Hispanic is not well received either. My daughter in Quito, where the term is not used at all, simply thinks it's amusingly vague. Another of my daughters has a well-worn T-shirt that says, "I am not Latina. I am Not Hispanic. I am Puerto Rican".

All of us are thoroughly tired of having to put hyphenated labels on everyone.

 

[Kent]

Well you and I have very different realities. Nearly every business in the Lake community advertises, especially in the Summer season because in Winter it goes to near dead zero. And we have competing stations doing High school football, the same high school...because there are that many businesses wanting to support it. All the tourists that come here blast our FM on their boat. It's played at nearly every waterfront bar. Hell I see posts on the Facebook groups all the time...."What's the best music station at the lake?" constantly.

I realize I'm a tad late to the discussion, but I worked in the lake area for about four years. It's essentially a single street and not a lot of national businesses, though some of the big national brands have finally taken notice of the area and moved in. I seem to remember we got a little bit of agency business when Hy-Vee came to the market, and car dealerships in the area still tended to participate in agency buys. I remember us getting a few spots from Zimmer Creative out of Columbia/Jefferson City, and KTTS sent us a few as well. Otherwise, all buys were local direct and all spots were produced in house.

Growing up in Texas and Oklahoma, the Lake of the Ozarks is a lot different from Dallas/Ft. Worth, OKC, Tulsa, or Austin. You've got to get all the restaurants and bars to buy you during the summer because that's about all the business there is. I know we were routinely sold out on holiday weekends, and our spot load used to shoot up just before Memorial Day Weekend and didn't go down until mid-to-late September. It was the most commercials I'd ever played. As I mentioned above, aside from the occasional McDonalds, cell phone, and car dealer spot, entertainment venues and boat sales were about all we had. As David mentions, that's not all that viable of a model in a major market. Loading up with spots causes instant tune out, and the price of spots on a major market station is a lot higher than what it is on the stations in the lake area. From a sales standpoint, Miami is a lot closer to DFW than it is to the Lake.

I'll also add that, during the time I was at the Lake, I could list a ton of business that closed. I'm guessing that number has gone up since the bypass was added in late 2012. Not that I wouldn't like to, but I rarely stop there anymore other than the occasional lunch or dinner at Shorty Pants when passing through. I've only spent two nights there since my dad unexpectedly passed in '09. He was the one who liked to go there, and it's too far for my mother to drive for a weekend. I still live a couple hours from that area and drive through it when I go to Tulsa to visit my mother. I noticed the for sale sign has been up at Mexicali Blues for awhile now. That was another client we had, and it's now another client gone.

 

[davideduardo]

Yet another HORRENDOUS book for the new 93.9. I told all of you guys this station would be a failure after an initial "surge" of decent ratings from curiosity listening.

The issue is that there are not a wealth of non-Urban English language formats that are not already deeply covered and which would work in the Republic of South Florida.

Both country and rock are fading in this market, and there are only so many versions of CHR and AC that will have enough Hispanic appeal to work there; the market is now less than 25% non-Hispanic white.

 

[qwertyuiop56]

Definitely heard and recorded this MIA station on 93.9 all the way in central CT during E-skip of the summer of 2018 along with a few other FL stations. Used to be Hot AC format when I caught such unexpected reception ~1,000 miles away.

 

[johntherogger]

I realize I'm a tad late to the discussion, but I worked in the lake area for about four years. It's essentially a single street and not a lot of national businesses, though some of the big national brands have finally taken notice of the area and moved in. I seem to remember we got a little bit of agency business when Hy-Vee came to the market, and car dealerships in the area still tended to participate in agency buys. I remember us getting a few spots from Zimmer Creative out of Columbia/Jefferson City, and KTTS sent us a few as well. Otherwise, all buys were local direct and all spots were produced in house.

Growing up in Texas and Oklahoma, the Lake of the Ozarks is a lot different from Dallas/Ft. Worth, OKC, Tulsa, or Austin. You've got to get all the restaurants and bars to buy you during the summer because that's about all the business there is. I know we were routinely sold out on holiday weekends, and our spot load used to shoot up just before Memorial Day Weekend and didn't go down until mid-to-late September. It was the most commercials I'd ever played. As I mentioned above, aside from the occasional McDonalds, cell phone, and car dealer spot, entertainment venues and boat sales were about all we had. As David mentions, that's not all that viable of a model in a major market. Loading up with spots causes instant tune out, and the price of spots on a major market station is a lot higher than what it is on the stations in the lake area. From a sales standpoint, Miami is a lot closer to DFW than it is to the Lake.

I'll also add that, during the time I was at the Lake, I could list a ton of business that closed. I'm guessing that number has gone up since the bypass was added in late 2012. Not that I wouldn't like to, but I rarely stop there anymore other than the occasional lunch or dinner at Shorty Pants when passing through. I've only spent two nights there since my dad unexpectedly passed in '09. He was the one who liked to go there, and it's too far for my mother to drive for a weekend. I still live a couple hours from that area and drive through it when I go to Tulsa to visit my mother. I noticed the for sale sign has been up at Mexicali Blues for awhile now. That was another client we had, and it's now another client gone.

That pretty much sums up the Lake in the mid 2000's to 2015....Now it's really big because the pandemic put them way higher than ever before. All those small bars have totally rebuilt, they have massive concert stages and big swimming pools. Boats have sold out and most are on back order for months now. The further from the bigger towns, the more some smaller places did struggle....but the majority have outlasted and reports showed that we had 50% growth in the winter, with even traffic jams in January.

It's shocking...advertising is fairly stable too. Sounds like you were there when I was on air full time at KRMS....I'm still there now, just virtually.

I just don't grasp the Major/Minor market concept. I mean I get it 20 or 30 years ago, that wasn't an option, but today when radio isn't everyone's first thought....small to mid-level stations could make a killing off that concept. Maybe iHeart doesn't care, but a small AM or one of the smaller FM's like 92.3 could easily sell to dozens of local restaurants....and if the cost is too high, lower it.

The only issue is what you said, loading up breaks. I feel if you even it out, make more sponsorships of things like "stream" "top of the hour" or "studios" and "hour of music" plus the spots, you could really make it a viable business model.

I guess we won't know until someone tries it. We could sit here all day and say "nope, won't work" but when someone tries it and it works then we'll all have to say "oh wow, didn't see that coming."

 

[MarkW]

Both country and rock are fading in this market, and there are only so many versions of CHR and AC that will have enough Hispanic appeal to work there; the market is now less than 25% non-Hispanic white.

Kiss Country just posted two of its stronger survey periods of the PPM era (at least in 6+), and Big 106 has performed quite well since the playlist expansion.

That said, there definitely is not room for two country stations in Miami - Ft. Lauderdale, and of course, iHM certainly won't be adding a second rock signal.

Rhythmic AC in my estimation was the best format for 93.9 FM. I'm not sure why iHM pivoted away from it in favor of a boring Hot AC that preceded the all-90's dumpster fire now found at that frequency.

 

[strangelove]

The issue is that there are not a wealth of non-Urban English language formats that are not already deeply covered and which would work in the Republic of South Florida.

Both country and rock are fading in this market, and there are only so many versions of CHR and AC that will have enough Hispanic appeal to work there; the market is now less than 25% non-Hispanic white.

I guess it begs the question: what might a viable format look like for stations like 93.9 and 104.3?

 

[MarkW]

Audacy does a good job with its Variety Hits formatted stations; that's the direction I would take 104.3.

Other options for 104.3:
- Spanish language format of some sort
- Return it to All Sports
- Mainstream Rock with an active lean (similar to WMMR Philadelphia - owned by Beasley)

For 93.9, I would advocate for either a return to Rhythmic AC, a shift to a Spanish-language music format of some sort, a simulcast of WIOD, launch of an FM lifestyle talk format (similar to Real Radio in Orlando), or Adult Contemporary.