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Local AM "Translator(s)" for a Local FM Station

kfbkfb

kfbkfb

In some urban canyons (sometimes also called cities), FM reception isn't very good, maybe use one (or more) local AM stations to retransmit a local FM station.

It would help with reception problems and give new life to poorly rated local AM stations (of course, AM stereo tech could be used, and if the FM station is broadcasting matrix quadraphonic/surround sound, that would carry over to the AM stereo broadcast as well).


Kirk Bayne
 
kfbkfb said:
I actually mean this, a possible use for AM in large metro areas.
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In the industry this is known as a 'simulcast'. Considering how expensive it is to operate and maintain an AM station in a large metro, just carrying another station would be a complete waste of money.
 
Kelly A said:
In the industry this is known as a 'simulcast'. Considering how expensive it is to operate and maintain an AM station in a large metro, just carrying another station would be a complete waste of money.
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And I don't believe it's permitted under the current FCC Rules.
 
Should have checked before answering:
"At its meeting last week, the FCC adopted an order that eliminated its rule that prohibits radio stations in the same service (AM or FM) that have over 50% overlap of their principal community contours (the 70 dBu for FM stations and the 5 mV/m contour for AM stations) from duplicating more than 25 per cent of the ...Aug 10, 2020"
https://www.broadcastlawblog.com/20...ram-duplication-rules-for-am-and-fm-stations/
 
AFAIK, the FCC would have to change the rules, but, using AM signals/stations in this way would extend the broadcast area of the FM stations without building any new towers, the AM station(s) used could carry the FM content from 5AM to 7PM and either power down (to a low transmitter power or off) or broadcast the sound of a rainstorm (- thunder) from 7PM to 5AM.

It could be argued that since (some) AM stations can get an FM transmitter/translator to reach their audience with a clearer signal, FM stations with local reception problems should be able to get an AM signal to help with their signal quality problems (in urban canyons, for example).


Kirk Bayne
 
As Kelly and Frank pointed out, operating an AM facility with the same programming as an FM station is absolutely possible. The only thing stopping it is money and the will to make it happen.

What is not possible is adding additional stations to the AM band. The AM band got stuffed to the gills in the 1960s, and except in a few locations where licenses have been turned in since that time, there isn't a place for adding even Class D stations.
 
My idea is to replace the content of some existing (low rated, probably) AM station(s) with the FM content (at least for a part of the 24 hour day), no new AM stations would be put on the air, this technique would extend the reach of the FM content and could be of interest to advertisers too.

(also, could use AM stereo too, if it's an FM stereo music station)


Kirk Bayne
 
I can't locate the post at the moment, but I recall one post about an AM daytimer with 4 or 5 FM (stereo) translators, they are able to operate this arrangement profitably, I don't see why one or more existing AM stations couldn't be repurposed to simulcast a local FM station (perhaps as simple as buying time on one or more low rated [desperate?] AM stations, not actually owning the stations), with the arrangement being profitable.


Kirk Bayne
 
kfbkfb said:
I can't locate the post at the moment, but I recall one post about an AM daytimer with 4 or 5 FM (stereo) translators, they are able to operate this arrangement profitably, I don't see why one or more existing AM stations couldn't be repurposed to simulcast a local FM station (perhaps as simple as buying time on one or more low rated [desperate?] AM stations, not actually owning the stations), with the arrangement being profitable.


Kirk Bayne
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Because absolutely no one is going to switch from FM to a network of AM stations.
 
It really depends on where the (potential) radio listener is in the radio market area, it it's an area with poor FM reception (and the AM simulcast has been regularly promoted), then the FM station can keep a listener.


Kirk Bayne
 
There's a reason very few AM stations broadcast music programming and haven't in decades, and stations like WABC which were once ratings powerhouses playing all the best music are but a shell of their former selves: It's because AM cannot equal the audio quality of FM. It's that simple. As has been discussed in other threads, some car companies aren't even including AM radios in their dashboard infotainment systems anymore, partly because AM is so badly impacted by interference, including from the vehicle you're driving, but also because there's little demand for it, few customers have requested it, and demand will be less and less in the future.

The message is clear from FM stations who have "at work" listeners who cannot pickup the signal inside their office buildings or the part of town where their offices are located: "Can't pick us up at work? No problem! Find us on the web at www.wxyz.com or on the XYZ radio app! You can also tell Siri or Alexa to play WXZY". Problem solved, no expensive and much inferior AM signal required.
 
Last edited:
kfbkfb said:
It really depends on where the (potential) radio listener is in the radio market area, it it's an area with poor FM reception (and the AM simulcast has been regularly promoted), then the FM station can keep a listener.
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The need for your idea has been replaced by streaming. Apple Carplay is a common app already in most newer vehicles. If an FM station dropped out completely, modern consumers look for streaming options. They're not going to switch to an AM station. Why do you think the Commission granted the use of FM translators for AM stations? It's because FM is the default, not the other way around.
 
kfbkfb said:
I can't locate the post at the moment, but I recall one post about an AM daytimer with 4 or 5 FM (stereo) translators, they are able to operate this arrangement profitably, I don't see why one or more existing AM stations couldn't be repurposed to simulcast a local FM station (perhaps as simple as buying time on one or more low rated [desperate?]
Click to expand...
Because we've already told you Kirk: AM stations are much more expensive to operate, and no listeners but you would consider switching away from FM to AM.
No daytime AM station would be allowed to have four or five FM translators. Your idea was originally for serving "major metropolitan areas". Not many daytime stations would be in major metros.
kfbkfb said:
AM stations, not actually owning the stations), with the arrangement being profitable.
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How would it be profitable, if the cost of operating the AM was twice what it costs to run the FM?
"Rainman" math?
 
From what I've read here in RD, some AM stations are kind of desperate and will sell time in blocks at a fixed cost (that's the total cost of putting your content on that AM frequency).


(found the post, here's the relevant info):
wcjw.com

Contact - WCJW - CJ Country 100.9 103.7 104.3 104.9 105.5 1140am

Fast FactsOur Location Name: CJ COUNTRY RADIO Call Letters: WCJW-Warsaw, Batavia, Avon, Geneseo Frequency/Online: 100.9FM, 103.7FM, 104.3FM, 104. 9 105.5FM, 1140AM, Online @ wcjw.com or smartphone on the CJ Country or TuneIn app Coverage Area: Wyoming County Genesee CountyLivingston County...
wcjw.com wcjw.com

If a big city FM station wants to retransmit their content on one or more local AM stations too (may be located more on the fringe of the radio market) from 5AM to 7PM weekdays (for example) to increase the their listenership during the typical work hours, then they should be allowed to do so.


Kirk Bayne
 
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