News/talk ratings skyrocketing due to high gas prices

[davideduardo]

Total BS. Refineries are intentionally trying to make up for 2020-21 during the lock-down when demand went way low. They're using Ukraine and Russia, along with renewed demand, to stick it to consumers and business. So far refineries are up over $30B in profits, and expect to do an $80B stock buy-back in Q4.
Stick that in your Wikipedia and smoke it.

So, if they lost money and had to stop increasing capacity and developing new sources, they don't have the right to make some of that back so that they can resume normal operations?

Further, costs that figure in to the retail price of gasoline and petroleum chemicals such as transportation (up over 300% in most cases), labor, regulatory expense and others have all increased during the pandemic and in its period of decline.

In many fields, you only have the choice of making up for losses or going out of business.

 

[davideduardo]

This is going to leave an awful lot of people who either can't afford a smart phone or don't want to take the privacy risks involved with owning one

Look at nations in Africa where average annual income is below $5000 yet very economical smartphones are used instead of credit cards and banks. Whether it is more advance Ghana or less developed Burkina Faso, the financial system in every urban area has shifted to smartphones.

-- or, in Chimp's apparent case, technophobes who are uneasy with ATMs, let alone smart phones -- increasingly unable to function in the modern world.

Some people who resist those changes will just have to be assisted, perhaps even by joint government and financial institutions creating training systems.

I resisted the smart phone until last year, my excuse being that my job did not require me to be instantly available nor did I want to be distracted from my leisure activities except in the case of an emergency, and a plain old dumb wireless phone worked fine for the latter. But that dumb phone was a 3G model from 2010, and 3G service everywhere was going to be sundowned in 2022, so I gave in. I still hardly use it, but at least I'm ready for this future that many Americans still don't want.

And that was possible because the smartphone services that go beyond making calls were not obligatory. I got an iPhone in its first month's of production because I like gadgets and new technology; I am now saving a bit each month for DDR5 memory, the next generation of Ryzen Threadripper and the just announced SSDs with 13,000/10,000 data rates or better.

 

[davideduardo]

Saw the other day, where 'hackers' are hacking websites, ads, and phone apps that use QR codes, changing them to a link which downloads and installs malware or ransomware on the device.

If you see further articles on that, please provide a link. I was not familiar with that and it is a bit frightening even though I do not use QR codes for payment... yet.

 

[davideduardo]

You'd do yourself a favor by learning to use an ATM if you must get cash, and open an account at a bank where they allow you to use ATMs from any brand name bank to make withdrawals if need be, without being charged an extra fee.

I just got a notice from Wells Fargo that my combined accounts have to be over $250,000 in total or I would pay $5 a month to cover "free checking" and some other services. But non Wells ATMs would pay whatever the inter-bank fee was for using that service.

Lots of places don't accept checks, and at least one country in Europe now charges a service charge if you try and pay with one. They're a pain for stores and merchants to deal with, it's more "paperwork" for them, depending on the circumstances they need to wait for the check to clear before they get paid, and if someone writes a check with insufficient funds to cover it, that merchant is assuming some level of risk.

About the only places I know that take checks now are my car dealer (surprise: they can track me via my vehicle data) and our maid and our gardener. Even services like our plumber, electrician, annual garage door and A/C service providers and the like all have those "insert the chip end first" devices.

Grocery stores used to have the little shelf at the checkout where you could write a check. The ones in my area were removed years ago.

You are right about the tedious steps to cash a check. When I opened my first checking account, to case a check on it I had to present the check at one window where they verified my ID, then go to a balance verification window and, finally to a payout window where they gave me the cash. It could take a half hour to cash a check if the lines were long.

 

[landtuna]

If you see further articles on that, please provide a link. I was not familiar with that and it is a bit frightening even though I do not use QR codes for payment... yet.

In the wrong hands, QR codes are a dangerous threat to your mobile device security. | Information Security at UVA, U.Va.

Search 'QR Code Hacking' at DuckDuckGo

 

[boombox4]

Total BS. Refineries are intentionally trying to make up for 2020-21 during the lock-down when demand went way low. They're using Ukraine and Russia, along with renewed demand, to stick it to consumers and business. So far refineries are up over $30B in profits, and expect to do an $80B stock buy-back in Q4.
Stick that in your Wikipedia and smoke it.

Are you certain that they're intentionally "sticking it to us", and that it's not just the state of the oil market? Because the oil companies made their largest profits ever (in nominal dollars or real dollars) in 2012. Almost twice as much gross profit as they make right now. No Putin's war to blame, no pandemic to blame, and according to the government, the recession was already over two years previous.

Even if you look at the oil companies' gross profits on a quarter by quarter basis, they made more in 2012 than they're making now. In 2012, for example, Exxon made $112 billion in gross profits over the previous year. Today they are making around $72 billion in gross profits in 12 months, up from $54 billion last year, but still not up to their 2012 high.

And remember, in 2012 the dollar was worth $127 in today's money, so -- accounting for inflation, the oil companies were easily making twice as much in 2012 as they're making today.

The fact is, they aren't actually making record profits. It's a catchy meme, and it's a popular one, because of gas prices (which are killing Biden's popularity in the polls right now), but the reality is that it's just supply and demand.

 

[boombox4]

This is going to leave an awful lot of people who either can't afford a smart phone or don't want to take the privacy risks involved with owning one -- or, in Chimp's apparent case, technophobes who are uneasy with ATMs, let alone smart phones -- increasingly unable to function in the modern world. I resisted the smart phone until last year, my excuse being that my job did not require me to be instantly available nor did I want to be distracted from my leisure activities except in the case of an emergency, and a plain old dumb wireless phone worked fine for the latter. But that dumb phone was a 3G model from 2010, and 3G service everywhere was going to be sundowned in 2022, so I gave in. I still hardly use it, but at least I'm ready for this future that many Americans still don't want.

Not all QR codes work with all smartphones, either. You've apparently got to have the app installed, and of course, all the covert spying that goes on with every app.....

 

[davideduardo]

Even if you look at the oil companies' gross profits on a quarter by quarter basis, they made more in 2012 than they're making now. In 2012, for example, Exxon made $112 billion in gross profits over the previous year. Today they are making around $72 billion in gross profits in 12 months, up from $54 billion last year, but still not up to their 2012 high.

And if you look at the margins, they are not high. $23 billion in after tax profits in 2021 against $276 billion in sales. That is less than a 9% profit margin.

And remember, in 2012 the dollar was worth $127 in today's money, so -- accounting for inflation, the oil companies were easily making twice as much in 2012 as they're making today.

I think you mean $1.27, not a hundred and twenty-seven. That would be inflation that would make Biden look like a fiscal conservative.

The fact is, they aren't actually making record profits. It's a catchy meme, and it's a popular one, because of gas prices (which are killing Biden's popularity in the polls right now), but the reality is that it's just supply and demand.

And you can't evaluate profits unless you compare them to sales. The international petroleum companies have to operate on a huge scale to be able to absorb political turmoil in some nations, nationalization in others and depletion in yet others.

Look at how much Exxon and Occidental lost on their Libya investments. It almost broke Oxy and stressed Exxon. Only large companies can tolerate such risk.

 

[boombox4]

^^^^^ Yes, you're correct. $1.00 was worth $1.27. $100 would be $127, which was the figure I entered in the calculator. Hence, the screw up in my post. Woops.

$1.00 in 2012 would be worth $1.27 today. $1.00 last year would be worth $1.11 today.

 

[davideduardo]

$1.00 last year would be worth $1.11 today.

Ouch.

 

[Kelly A]

Are you certain that they're intentionally "sticking it to us", and that it's not just the state of the oil market?

Yes, as an example: Oil commodity prices were down significantly last week, yet the price of refined fuel was as high, or higher (namely diesel) during that time. Refinery's are cashing in while they can. Chevron refinery division made a $480 million profit in the U.S. in this year’s first three months, compared with a loss of $130 million last year. The other big refiners reported similar huge increases in profitability, the obvious result of their price gouging. And for as much as the Administration admonishes them for price gouging, there is no regulation on how much refineries or oil companies can make.

Even if you look at the oil companies' gross profits on a quarter by quarter basis, they made more in 2012 than they're making now. In 2012, for example, Exxon made $112 billion in gross profits over the previous year. Today they are making around $72 billion in gross profits in 12 months, up from $54 billion last year, but still not up to their 2012 high.

Refineries cash in as petrol prices soar

A lack of capacity to process crude oil has helped to drive fuel prices to record levels

www.bbc.com

The fact is, they aren't actually making record profits. It's a catchy meme, and it's a popular one, because of gas prices (which are killing Biden's popularity in the polls right now), but the reality is that it's just supply and demand.

For as much as talk radio listener's like yourself want to make this Biden or politically based, it's pure capitalism. Refineries are cashing in while they can, and where there is some regulation being discussed, it won't be here in time to control the potential for price gouging.

 

[Kelly A]

So, if they lost money and had to stop increasing capacity and developing new sources, they don't have the right to make some of that back so that they can resume normal operations?

Further, costs that figure in to the retail price of gasoline and petroleum chemicals such as transportation (up over 300% in most cases), labor, regulatory expense and others have all increased during the pandemic and in its period of decline.

In many fields, you only have the choice of making up for losses or going out of business.

When it comes to commodities like fuels or food, I don't think a business should try to make up for two years of unforeseen losses in a few months. Oil, and companies related, already have public-facing relationship problems with their customers. Price gouging doesn't help. It's playing a short game and a sure way to drive consumers to alternative fuels or EV's.

 

[Kelly A]

If you see further articles on that, please provide a link. I was not familiar with that and it is a bit frightening even though I do not use QR codes for payment... yet.

Sure:

FBI: Hackers Are Compromising Legit QR Codes to Send You to Phishing Sites

The scheme exploits how QR codes have grown in popularity during the pandemic.

www.pcmag.com

In the wrong hands, QR codes are a dangerous threat to your mobile device security. | Information Security at UVA, U.Va.

security.virginia.edu

https://www.komando.com/security-privacy/criminals-tampering-with-qr-codes/823213/

 

[Kelly A]

I just got a notice from Wells Fargo that my combined accounts have to be over $250,000 in total or I would pay $5 a month to cover "free checking" and some other services. But non Wells ATMs would pay whatever the inter-bank fee was for using that service.

As an aside; I friggin hate Wells Fargo. I got so tired of their antics, I moved my mothers savings and checking to another bank. They charged me a $250 'service fee' to close her account. I have a business checking account with them currently, and they've been horrible. It took me five weeks to deposit a check for all sorts of reasons including: ATM's won't accept deposits after hours, and two times I visited in person to make the deposit, their 'computers were down'. Just need to get some time to close the account and move it to my other bank. No doubt they'll charge me a fee for that too.

You are right about the tedious steps to cash a check. When I opened my first checking account, to case a check on it I had to present the check at one window where they verified my ID, then go to a balance verification window and, finally to a payout window where they gave me the cash. It could take a half hour to cash a check if the lines were long.

Agree. And in my case; it shouldn't take weeks just to deposit a check.

 

[vchimpanzee]

As an aside; I friggin hate Wells Fargo. I got so tired of their antics, I moved my mothers savings and checking to another bank. They charged me a $250 'service fee' to close her account. I have a business checking account with them currently, and they've been horrible. It took me five weeks to deposit a check for all sorts of reasons including: ATM's won't accept deposits after hours, and two times I visited in person to make the deposit, their 'computers were down'. Just need to get some time to close the account and move it to my other bank. No doubt they'll charge me a fee for that too.

Agree. And in my case; it shouldn't take weeks just to deposit a check.

I haven't had any problems with Wells Fargo. I have an account there because first of all, the bank where I have had an account for 30+ years closed a branch that was convenient for me if I need money in one town I go to, and they had already closed a branch that was convenient in another town and I no longer had money in another nearby bank. In both cases Wells Fargo had a branch near where I needed. And Wells Fargo has branches in two places where I go on vacation. Unfortunately, last week when I needed cash, it wasn't in a good location and I just gave up and didn't save money buying gas with cash.

I ended up getting yet another account when Wells Fargo closed its convenient branch in one of the towns but that other bank has a good location for when I go on vacation.

 

[davideduardo]

As an aside; I friggin hate Wells Fargo.

We have neither good nor bad experiences with Wells Fargo. We never go into the bank for anything, but we need a local bank for payments for services that don't take credit cards. Mostly, we deal with Key Bank our of Cleveland on everything of importance, and they even give us personal service that is very complete.

I will welcome the day when we can have systems like offered in much of the Third World where we have a "money account" that we use for day to day payments and purchases and which charges very small fees for account administration. I'll bet banks rank as low in public opinion as politicians, lawyers and car dealers.

 

[boombox4]

For as much as talk radio listener's like yourself want to make this Biden or politically based, it's pure capitalism. Refineries are cashing in while they can, and where there is some regulation being discussed, it won't be here in time to control the potential for price gouging.

The only thing Biden-based about this issue is that he campaigned on shutting down fossil fuels. That was political hype to appeal to the progressives in his party. I don't think Biden himself agreed with it.

The article you linked mentioned that there is a shortage of refining capacity, which is also the case here in the US. Refining capacity is down 5%. Some refineries were closed in 2020 because of COVID, with at least one converting to biodiesel.

EIA expects high refinery margins to contribute to increasing fuel production this summer - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

www.eia.gov

This Week In Petroleum Summary Printer-Friendly Version - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Gasoline Production, Imports, Stocks, Supply, Prices by Grade and Sales Type, Retail City Average Prices, Data and Analysis from the Energy Information Administration.

www.eia.gov

So it comes down to supply and demand. Like you said, it's just capitalism. Personally, I wouldn't doubt that some of these oil industry companies are jacking up some prices. I just don't think it's the sole reason that gas is near $6 now when it was $3.50 a gallon in 2019 with the same demand. Something else is at play.

I remember when there was a Windfall Profits tax, enacted under Carter. From what I understand of it, it was fair, and only kicked in during times when the oil companies were really cashing it in. A couple news articles say that Biden is looking into re-enacting one. CNN had one article where an economist said it could backfire.

Some Democrats want to tax Big Oil's windfall. This economist says it could backfire

The White House has kept the door open to a windfall profit tax on Big Oil but economist Mark Zandi is warning such a move could backfire.

www.cnn.com

The overall problem is lack of regulation of the US oil market and poor energy management policy. Sort of like pushing EVs when the US is producing the same amount of electricity as we did in 2005, we just don't seem to manage our energy concerns very well. As for actual gouging, the FTC looked into it in the past, and never found evidence of actual price gouging. I think they're also looking into it now, though.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

When the next barge arrives, which is a few days away.. our gas is going up $2 a gallon to $9.29 a gallon, im told unofficially

 

[davideduardo]

So it comes down to supply and demand. Like you said, it's just capitalism. Personally, I wouldn't doubt that some of these oil industry companies are jacking up some prices. I just don't think it's the sole reason that gas is near $6 now when it was $3.50 a gallon in 2019 with the same demand. Something else is at play.

I was chatting online with my oldest daughter in Quito, and she says that today there are massive demonstrations, including indigenous persons groups who have invaded the congressional chambers in protest because gas, diesel and related products have increased about 80% in price in the last 24 months. And Ecuador is totally self-sufficient in petroleum and is a net exporter.

So yeah, there are other forces in play.

 

[Kelly A]

So it comes down to supply and demand. Like you said, it's just capitalism. Personally, I wouldn't doubt that some of these oil industry companies are jacking up some prices. I just don't think it's the sole reason that gas is near $6 now when it was $3.50 a gallon in 2019 with the same demand. Something else is at play.

Here's some more on California refineries and their price gouging:

'Oil refiners exploited the crisis': Report shows oil refiners are gouging California drivers

According to Consumer Watchdog, in the first quarter of 2022, some California refiners earned more than twice as those reported by the same refiners in other regions and as much as five times more than in the first quarter of 2021.

www.ktvu.com