July 2022 PPM 6+ Mon-Sun, 6a-12mid

[bobdavcav]

Ford,
Public transit works well when it works, and I think it's a perfectly acceptable option to get large numbers of people to and from sports events. As someone who has never driven, I am always going to be an advocate for more transit. Mediafrog, you may have had a good experience with transit in Seattle, and I think that's great. However, taking transit on vacation is a lot different than taking it every day, and it also depends on where you live. I went to school here in Vancouver several years ago, but where I was living at the time I had quite good access to transit. Where I am now, the bus service is kind of crappy. As for how KJR does, I really don't get it. For as long as I've been watching the ratings, they've always been the second rate sports station, and it's not even close a lot of the time. Maybe this will change if they get the Seahawks, but I predict that if they lose that bid they won't have a shot at success on fm.

 

[fordranger797]

Ford,
Public transit works well when it works, and I think it's a perfectly acceptable option to get large numbers of people to and from sports events. As someone who has never driven, I am always going to be an advocate for more transit. Mediafrog, you may have had a good experience with transit in Seattle, and I think that's great. However, taking transit on vacation is a lot different than taking it every day, and it also depends on where you live. I went to school here in Vancouver several years ago, but where I was living at the time I had quite good access to transit. Where I am now, the bus service is kind of crappy. As for how KJR does, I really don't get it. For as long as I've been watching the ratings, they've always been the second rate sports station, and it's not even close a lot of the time. Maybe this will change if they get the Seahawks, but I predict that if they lose that bid they won't have a shot at success on FM.

Sorry Bob, I didn’t mean to come off as insensitive. You are correct, public transit is very handy when it works, though it seems like there are many scenarios where it doesn’t. Seattle is a perfect example of a city with frustrating public transit, as the light rail network leaves a lot to be desired, and the bus system can be challenging to navigate. It seems like Sound Transit is constantly asking for money, yet they seem to be unable to manage the money they already have effectively. I was very impressed with the public transportation system in San Francisco when I visited a few years ago. The BART train seemed to go just around anywhere you would like it to go, and it was very easy to use. On my last trip into Seattle, I attempted to use the light rail system, but the parking lot that fed the train station was completely full so I ended up having to drive into the city anyway.

 

[Kelly A]

Sorry Bob, I didn’t mean to come off as insensitive. You are correct, public transit is very handy when it works, though it seems like there are many scenarios where it doesn’t. Seattle is a perfect example of a city with frustrating public transit, as the light rail network leaves a lot to be desired, and the bus system can be challenging to navigate. It seems like Sound Transit is constantly asking for money, yet they seem to be unable to manage the money they already have effectively. I was very impressed with the public transportation system in San Francisco when I visited a few years ago. The BART train seemed to go just around anywhere you would like it to go, and it was very easy to use. On my last trip into Seattle, I attempted to use the light rail system, but the parking lot that fed the train station was completely full so I ended up having to drive into the city anyway.

Recognizing this is way off topic, so quickly: In all the major U.S. and European cities I've visited or lived-in, Seattle has absolutely the worst mass transit system. Stupid bendy busses that block entire roads when it snows, to a hodge-podge of rail transit like the South Lake Union Transport (aka the SLUT) and don't forget the old monorail that goes a few blocks. There's never been a comprehensive plan, and as long as citizens keep electing idiots to the City Council and Mayor offices, it's never going to get better.

 

[fordranger797]

Recognizing this is way off topic, so quickly: In all the major U.S. and European cities I've visited or lived-in, Seattle has absolutely the worst mass transit system. Stupid bendy busses that block entire roads when it snows, to a hodge-podge of rail transit like the South Lake Union Transport (aka the SLUT) and don't forget the old monorail that goes a few blocks. There's never been a comprehensive plan, and as long as citizens keep electing idiots to the City Council and Mayor offices, it's never going to get better.

Agreed, Kelly. I find it astounding that so much funding continues to go to transit in the Seattle area with such lacklustre results. I know many people who believe in the importance of public transit, but see no point in continuing to throw money at this problem. With how much has been invested, it seems like the light rail train should be a lot more expansive than it is. It’s no wonder that some people are unwilling to travel to the new climate pledge arena when it’s so difficult to get there. Take your pick between sitting in traffic or taking a very complicated transit route.

 

[bobdavcav]

Yes, all of this I agree with. This is a topic I've become extremely passionate about in the last five years or so. Even Portland's train network is much more extensive than Seattle's.

 

[boombox4]

Admittedly, the geography and layout of the City doesn't help in constructing new projects, but King County and Seattle are highly educated regions, with lots of brainiac, high tech people that develop operating systems that run businesses worldwide and sell stuff to nearly everyone via online purchases.... Yet the Light Rail system was poorly designed to begin with, going from the U to SeaTac Airport instead of from Downtown to the Eastside or North End where lots of commuters might have used light rail instead of I-90 and I-5.

What were the designers thinking? They weren't, apparently -- although we got a nice gerrymander out of the deal.

It's such a great idea, though, in theory. I was in favor of the light rail system until I saw how they wanted to implement it... Oh well.

Back to radio.... Been listening to KJR-AM, Fox Sports Radio.... A lot of promos for 93.3 FM. And tons of spots on KJR-FM. Softee and Dick on the FM vs. Andy Furman on the AM, FSN side.

 

[The New Chico]

What were the designers thinking? They weren't, apparently

Are you a light rail expert? Because I am not, and am in no position to critique how stupid the Sound Transit designers are. I suspect that they have employed quite a few folks who actually know a few things about light rail. All I know are a few facts.

1) Seattle voters had the opportunity to fund (and gain huge matching Federal dollars) a huge rapid transit package in 1968 and 1970 (called Forward Thrust) and chose not to do so. Atlanta received "Seattle's" loot and this set back transit for years in Seattle. Some say decades.

2) In a huge multi-stage program sometimes you do the easiest stuff first. That way you can show the public real progress. 30 year projects tend to make the public impatient if they don't see results quickly. Most of the downtown to SeaTac link was at grade with the easiest right of ways to obtain, from what I understand. So you build that one as fast as is feasible. And then you work outwards.

3) Not like the population or need will be shrinking in the coming years. Upcoming projects already in construction include the N link up to Lynnwood, ready next year. Ultimately will link to Everett. South link is in construction to Federal Way, then Tacoma. I am especially impressed that they have figured out a way to get a train across a flexible floating bridge! The link to Redmond/ Microsoft will complete this year and the extension to downtown Redmond in '25. The West Seattle, Kirkland, Issaquah and Ballard links are upcoming.

4) You do what you do when you can do it. A lot of official energy on the eastside especially that had to be politically overcome before they could even get past the planning stage on that line, for example.

 

[fordranger797]

Are you a light rail expert? Because I am not, and am in no position to critique how stupid the Sound Transit designers are. I suspect that they have employed quite a few folks who actually know a few things about light rail. All I know are a few facts.

1) Seattle voters had the opportunity to fund (and gain huge matching Federal dollars) a huge rapid transit package in 1968 and 1970 (called Forward Thrust) and chose not to do so. Atlanta received "Seattle's" loot and this set back transit for years in Seattle. Some say decades.

2) In a huge multi-stage program sometimes you do the easiest stuff first. That way you can show the public real progress. 30 year projects tend to make the public impatient if they don't see results quickly. Most of the downtown to SeaTac link was at grade with the easiest right of ways to obtain, from what I understand. So you build that one as fast as is feasible. And then you work outwards.

3) Not like the population or need will be shrinking in the coming years. Upcoming projects already in construction include the N link up to Lynnwood, ready next year. Ultimately will link to Everett. South link is in construction to Federal Way, then Tacoma. I am especially impressed that they have figured out a way to get a train across a flexible floating bridge! The link to Redmond/ Microsoft will complete this year and the extension to downtown Redmond in '25. The West Seattle, Kirkland, Issaquah and Ballard links are upcoming.

4) You do what you do when you can do it. A lot of official energy on the eastside especially that had to be politically overcome before they could even get past the planning stage on that line, for example.

Some fair points were definitely made here. I think a lot of people who live further out from Seattle become more frustrated with the current state of public transit, just because it seems like taxes are constantly being raised with no real benefit for most people. There was that big debate a few years ago over $30 car tabs, and somehow many taxpayers still got stuck paying higher rates anyway (despite a vote in favor of $30 tabs). Then, you basically were SOL if you happened to live in an area designated as an arbitrary “transit” area. It doesn’t seem as bothersome if you’re far enough out to avoid being impacted.
Moral of the story, live outside of this highlighted area to pay a lower tax.

https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/documents/stdistrictmap07_10.pdf

 

[The New Chico]

I think that folks in Orting and Woodinville might have a complaint, but really the rest of the folks in the taxed area are now or will eventually reap the direct benefit of this program. Even if they never use the light rail themselves. Which is the best I think you can ask for in a giant project like this.

The $30 car tab initiatives were always seemingly legally doomed, and not shocking that Eyman was behind them all. Struck me that he kept putting up the same issue so many times because the rubes would pay him to do so so many times. Fool me once...

 

[fordranger797]

I think that folks in Orting and Woodinville might have a complaint, but really the rest of the folks in the taxed area are now or will eventually reap the direct benefit of this program. Even if they never use the light rail themselves. Which is the best I think you can ask for in a giant project like this.

The $30 car tab initiatives were always seemingly legally doomed, and not shocking that Eyman was behind them all. Struck me that he kept putting up the same issue so many times because the rubes would pay him to do so so many times. Fool me once...

I can definitely see your point here, but after seeing how much money has already been funnelled into sound transit, it really makes me question whether or not there will be any noticeable benefit. I used to live in Pierce County, where transit was very limited, but the transit taxes continued to go up. I was paying a rather high amount for tabs on my 20 year old car, because the state claimed it was worth more than it actually is (based on some arbitrary value they came up with). I know that it’s a bit of a catch 22, because pierce country has not voted in favor of transit initiatives in many elections, yet residents continue to be in the “future expansion zone.” The critics say that people who live in Pierce County are not informed voters for deciding to vote “no” on something that will provide a benefit, but I think most people are pretty wary of sound transit at this point, and doubt the project will ever get done.

As for the link light rail system, I have used it (and I would say it’s my preferred method for getting into Seattle). However, it seems a bit archaic to me already. The cars are not very big, and the parking facilities cannot accommodate the number of vehicles trying to use light rail as a means for commuting. I would certainly hope they have a way to improve all of this if they continue to expand north and south, or else the sounder train is going to have to be looked at as the primary method for moving people around (which certainly raises some other problems).

Not all transit is bad. I don’t live in Seattle anymore, and have access to a transit system that is arguably much better. I’m able to take a light rail train to many destinations, including my place of work. The only issue is that it isn’t cheap. I’m using a free pass right now, and time will tell if I end up just driving when I actually have to pay to purchase the pass myself. I found out it’s going to cost me $137.10 to purchase a monthly pass when my free trial ends, and I calculated that it would actually cost less to drive.

 

[boombox4]

Are you a light rail expert? Because I am not, and am in no position to critique how stupid the Sound Transit designers are. I suspect that they have employed quite a few folks who actually know a few things about light rail. All I know are a few facts.

I don't need to be an expert, because I can read the news, and I've heard a lot on the radio about STA ever since the 2000s, and followed its development now and then via the local newspapers.

I don't need to be an expert to see the empty trains on the line south of town. For years it was just the one light rail line from the U to SeaTac Airport which took, and takes, zero cars off I-5 and I-90, where the traffic is the worst (405 won't get any real relief probably until 2105). For that joke we have had to pay hundreds of dollars to even tab old clunkers, thanks to the cost-overruns, and STA's own artificially inflated car values they based their tab fees on -- once again, all thanks to the gerrymander.

Yeah, I'm sure they hired experts. Trains get stuck in the tunnel. There's expert designing right there. You heard about the train that flew off the bridge and landed on I-5, going something like 80 miles per hour, right? More expert designing at work.

People get hit by the trains on MLK because it's also designed so awesomely. If it continues I'm sure they'll come up with a plan to elevate it down the MLK valley, as it should have been to begin with -- for people's safety -- and that will be billions more in cost overruns because the experts plan and design it so well. But, no worries. They'll just jack up the tabs so that you'll pay $2000 a year or whatever to tab your 2005 Kia.

And I actually voted for it first time around, when they appeared to have a workable plan, because I thought it was a good idea whose time had come. It failed, and the expert mapreaders at STA created the gerrymandered voting and taxing district to guarantee that the STA got voted into law the second time around. Which it did.

You are correct that the population won't be shrinking, and we're stuck with what we've got, and you are also very correct that you do what you can do when you can do it. I get that. The problem is that STA just don't give the taxpayers their money's worth. Ron Sims knew that was important. But apparently that concept went out with Y2K.

Like one STA rep said recently (quoted on the radio): a system that is consistently over budget, has few riders, and doesn't collect fares isn't going to make much money.

As far as I'm concerned, STA has a long, long way to go.

 

[boombox4]

The $30 car tab initiatives were always seemingly legally doomed, and not shocking that Eyman was behind them all. Struck me that he kept putting up the same issue so many times because the rubes would pay him to do so so many times. Fool me once...

You mean the initiatives that were voted for by over 56% of the voters (around 60% the first time around)? When you have 56% of the vote, perhaps there is some validity behind the complaint.

 

[fordranger797]

We also know that politicians (especially those in Seattle) REALLY want you to get out of your car and use public transportation. I recently went back to school to earn a different degree, and was shocked to realize that my tuition was considerably higher than I expected to pay for a transit pass (the "free" option that I mentioned in an earlier post). Sure, there are many students who would really need something like that, and should definitely be given the option, but I found it interesting that it was a requirement that you could not opt out of. To be fair, this tactic worked, because I've been using it like crazy just to get my money's worth. As I said before, I doubt I'll sign up for it again because the cost would be rather high. If it were around $30 per month to ride from my home to my current office, I'd be happy to save the gas and ride, but paying almost $180 to ride and deal with some of the strange characters that I've run into does not appeal to me.

When I worked at my old office in Bellevue, my company encouraged the use of public transportation, but didn't expect it. Some of my coworkers were very passionate about public transportation and believed I was killing the environment by driving to work. It was only after I explained that taking public transportation from my house to the office would be a four hour affair did they finally relent.

 

[Kelly A]

We also know that politicians (especially those in Seattle) REALLY want you to get out of your car and use public transportation.

If that's the case, they sure haven't made it easy to do so.

If it were around $30 per month to ride from my home to my current office, I'd be happy to save the gas and ride, but paying almost $180 to ride and deal with some of the strange characters that I've run into does not appeal to me.

Paying hundreds a month for slower and less effective transportation than even sitting on I-405 during commuting hours? No thanks.

When I worked at my old office in Bellevue, my company encouraged the use of public transportation, but didn't expect it. Some of my coworkers were very passionate about public transportation and believed I was killing the environment by driving to work. It was only after I explained that taking public transportation from my house to the office would be a four hour affair did they finally relent.

Maybe if these companies who prefer their employees use public transportation, at least for those who are expected into the office, are compensated with transportation passes, maybe more would sign up. That said; those same employers should expect their employees to not be on time.
I heard on the radio during the pandemic lock-down's; that keeping an office space(s) for in-person occupancy costs the average employer on average $2,400.00 per year, per employee. So allowing ten people to work from home relates to $24,000 per year savings. And ultimately having them come into the office for what? Sit at their office workstation and participate in Teams meetings? Just think if many businesses were able to renegotiate their leases down 50% due to the need for less space, on top of the savings by not having employees commute into the office.

 

[fordranger797]

If that's the case, they sure haven't made it easy to do so.

Paying hundreds a month for slower and less effective transportation than even sitting on I-405 during commuting hours? No thanks.

Maybe if these companies who prefer their employees use public transportation, at least for those who are expected into the office, are compensated with transportation passes, maybe more would sign up. That said; those same employers should expect their employees to not be on time.
I heard on the radio during the pandemic lock-down's; that keeping an office space(s) for in-person occupancy costs the average employer on average $2,400.00 per year, per employee. So allowing ten people to work from home relates to $24,000 per year savings. And ultimately having them come into the office for what? Sit at their office workstation and participate in Teams meetings? Just think if many businesses were able to renegotiate their leases down 50% due to the need for less space, on top of the savings by not having employees commute into the office.

They apparently want you to go through hell and back just to take the public transportation option. I guarantee that trying to take light rail on a weekday will be just about impossible because you will drive up to the station parking garage and discover that every spot is taken. Perhaps what I just said suggests that public transportation is working brilliantly in Seattle, but I think it’s the opposite. The garages they built were small to begin with, so I think that someone had the master plan of making it difficult to drive your car to the parking garage. I guess I should have walked/cycled the 40 miles it would have taken to get there.

Traffic on I-405 is awful, but sitting in my private car beats some of the conversations I’ve had on transit. I’m working in Vancouver BC right now, and there have been a ton of random acts of violence on transit lines. So I guess it’s safe to say that you can run into trouble just about anywhere. I have yet to witness anything like that, but I did have a homeless person ramble on about nothing for 45 minutes and then spit in my face. That was fantastic. All in all, I probably won’t ride very often when my pass expires.

I think there is a real opportunity for many senior employees to be given work from home options. New employees should remain in the office until they can learn everything there is to know about their role, but there’s no reason to force it on everyone. You’d probably be shocked if you knew what my company was paying to lease office space in Factoria…

 

[PTBoardOp94]

The thing Seattle, and many other US cities, lack for effective public transit is residential density. It rarely makes sense to park-and-ride, because you get all the costs of owning an automobile and driving it daily, with all the annoyances of public transit.

IMO the Paris Metro is the finest example of a mass transit system in the West - and you'll find that 95% of the city's 20 arrondissments is within about a 5 minute walk of a Metro stop. Seattle is nothing like that, and probably never will be.

 

[bobdavcav]

Ford, I think more people would take the transit pass if they weren't in your original situation of it taking four hours one way to get to work. When I worked in Redmond, I regularly had a two hour commute one way. On the semi-frequent occasions when Access would send me a cab and I'd get a direct ride, it would be half an hour in good traffic, and even in heavy traffic never more than about 70 minutes. If public transit could reliably do that I'd be happy. As far as good systems, I've never experienced Europe or even New York, but one I do have experience with is Honolulu, and I was quite impressed with the one route we rode when we were there.

 

[davideduardo]

IMO the Paris Metro is the finest example of a mass transit system in the West - and you'll find that 95% of the city's 20 arrondissments is within about a 5 minute walk of a Metro stop. Seattle is nothing like that, and probably never will be.

America, for the most part, spread horizontally. Europe created flats and apartments and there could be 1000 people in a small city block. So mass transit had less area to cover in Europe or Latin America, and distances were shorter so trains or buses ran more often and had closer stops.

When I lived in South America, I had a car to go to my transmitter sites and to go out at night. But in the daytime, I took small shuttle buses everywhere... to visit clients, to go shopping, whatever.

US cities are not laid out for efficient public transit because they grew like mad in the post-WW II years based on "everyone can have a car and a single family home".

 

[Kento]

Of course I do; I was an early advocate of flipping 93.3 to Sports for that very reason (among others).

Still, there is no reason to prematurely upset the apple cart by discontinuing the programming on 950 so soon, in my opinion.



I think it is highly unlikely that they have never, ever, ever ranked top ten in Men 18-49 or Men 25-54.

How do you make money with weak ratings? Let's see - (a) keeping costs low, (b) partnering with hosts / teams / etc. that certain well-heeled individuals wish to patronize financially and (c) accounting gimmickry with regard to corporate overhead allocation (I'm not necessarily suggesting that's occurring in this specific case). Of course, success stories of existing advertisers who've partnered with the station can help. I also suspect - especially now - that 93.3 is sold as part of multi-station packages (KZOK obviously pairs nicely).

I started listening to KJR more when they switched to FM. It’s going to take time for the move to payoff. Their coverage is much better since they switched to FM. I couldn’t get 950 at night in Buckley and 95.7 HD Signal doesn’t come in also. The only FM I can’t pick up in HD.

 

[bobdavcav]

I was in the market this weekend and it was definitely strange to hear sports on 93.3.