610 KILT Downgrades

[Engineering]

Not yet; 610 is still at their longtime site off West Road near I-45. Chuck Tiller might know a timeline for commencing operations at the KNTH location?

~35 years ago KEYH had a CP to move to 830 with 50kw daytime and 1kw night from a site north of Houston, dumping RF over the city and into the Gulf. Never built. I guess any revival of that idea would be pointless given the overall decline of AM radio. Also KGLA 830 in the New Orleans market might now be an issue (didn’t hit the air until sometime in the 1990s, IIRC.)

The latest KEYH STA expires on December 16. Will the FCC extend it further or pull the plug? Looks like there has been no progress on a new permanent site almost two years after the demise of the previous facility.

The problem with KEYH, aside from the marginal signal, is that they are programming music, and music on AM is a non-starter. Forty years ago was the last time AM and FM were at parity for listeners, who began the migration to the greener pastures of FM. News/Talk and Sports are the dominant formats nowadays, and b the same token, News/Talk and Sports don't seem to do well on FM. I'm sure some of you remember News 92 FM, and I predict Desportes 93.3 will meet the same fate in due course.

I believe the future of AM is digital. The MA3 format is apparently compatible with current HD receivers, and if there was more participation by the automobile manufacturers, penetration could be better. This would allow AM radio stations to broadcast with higher fidelity (at par or exceeding FM), in stereo, and Program Service Data. I understand WTAW 1620 in College Station is already broadcasting in digital, although I'm not sure whether it is IBOC HD or MA3.

 

[Mediafrog+]

News/Talk and Sports don't seem to do well on FM.

There are plenty of examples of News and SportsTalk formats moving to FM, or at least having a simulcast. WINS in NYC is the most recent example.

I'm sure some of you remember News 92 FM

Which failed because Radio One couldn’t afford the expense of a 47 person staff. And All-News does poorly in sunbelt markets, KNX being an exception.

and I predict Desportes 93.3 will meet the same fate in due course.

TUDN is on 93.3 just to give it market clearance. It would appear Univision is beyond caring about audience numbers for the KQBU.

I understand WTAW 1620 in College Station is already broadcasting in digital, although I'm not sure whether it is IBOC HD or MA3.

WTAW is still using IBOC HD at a recent check. Their ownership has backed proposals before the FCC to allow full digital transmission on AM. WTAW also has an FM translator.

 

[davideduardo]

News/Talk and Sports are the dominant formats nowadays, and b the same token, News/Talk and Sports don't seem to do well on FM. I

KCBS and KNBR in San Francisco added FM simulcasts and benefited greatly.

WSB in Atlanta added FM and gained in younger demos.

There are many more examples of moving to FM or adding FM. In smaller markets, expensive directional AMs have downgraded after adding a translator and actually gotten better results.

A few of these have failed, and always the reason is that the programming is not good on any band.

 

[Engineering]

KCBS and KNBR in San Francisco added FM simulcasts and benefited greatly.

WSB in Atlanta added FM and gained in younger demos.

There are many more examples of moving to FM or adding FM. In smaller markets, expensive directional AMs have downgraded after adding a translator and actually gotten better results.

A few of these have failed, and always the reason is that the programming is not good on any band.

Apples and oranges, David. Both you and Frog are referring to simulcast stations whereas I was speaking of standalone FM News/Talk stations. There are exceptions to everything, but as a rule News/Talk doesn't do well on FM. News92 in Houston is a good example. And News/Talk and Sports are the last remaining dominant formats on AM, as music is really a non-starter. Time keeps on slippin' slippin' slippin'...into the future.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Apples and oranges, David. Both you and Frog are referring to simulcast stations whereas I was speaking of standalone FM News/Talk stations. There are exceptions to everything, but as a rule News/Talk doesn't do well on FM. News92 in Houston is a good example. And News/Talk and Sports are the last remaining dominant formats on AM, as music is really a non-starter. Time keeps on slippin' slippin' slippin'...into the future.

KROI is a poor example.. not the greatest signal, run by a company who has no expierience in all news radio and Houston is different city then NY, LA, etc.

 

[BamaTX]

KROI is a poor example.. not the greatest signal, run by a company who has no expierience in all news radio and Houston is different city then NY, LA, etc.

Let's not forget that KROI was strictly a News station and not a News/Talk station. Successful News stations are very rare to find in this country. If Audicy or Cox wanted to challenge KTRH, they could definitely do it with one of their FM sticks. It would just come down to finding good talk content (local and national).

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Let's not forget that KROI was strictly a News station and not a News/Talk station. Successful News stations are very rare to find in this country. If Audicy or Cox wanted to challenge KTRH, they could definitely do it with one of their FM sticks. It would just come down to finding good talk content (local and national)

and jettison the formats on at least decently performing full market signals or under performing rimshots for a format thats much mroe expensive to do?

And if you put it on a non full market signal, you run into the KROI problem all over again

 

[Mrtejano]

Fccdata.org still is listing KROI as Radio Now

 

[Engineering]

KROI is a poor example.. not the greatest signal, run by a company who has no expierience in all news radio and Houston is different city then NY, LA, etc.

I can list several examples of radio stations that are owned by individuals who have no experience at all in their chosen format, or in radio at all. That infamous station in Lumberton, which is now once again on the radar screen, in a good example. But unfortunately when doling-out licenses, the Commission doesn't evaluate a potential licensee's enineering skills or history of operating at a profit. Fortunately, the listening public does, and a lack of listeners translates into a lack of advertising, and a lack of advertising translates into a lack of profitability. The most successful way of achieving a lack of listeners, ad revenue, and profitability is a silent station. Rynning a radio station at a loss should not be the ultimate objective.

 

[davideduardo]

KROI is a poor example.. not the greatest signal, run by a company who has no expierience in all news radio and Houston is different city then NY, LA, etc.

But they had a very good consultant and did a respectable job at the format. It's more than obvious that Sunbelt markets like Atlanta, PHX, Houston and even Dallas and LA just under-perform for all-news.

 

[davideduardo]

Apples and oranges, David. Both you and Frog are referring to simulcast stations whereas I was speaking of standalone FM News/Talk stations. There are exceptions to everything, but as a rule News/Talk doesn't do well on FM. News92 in Houston is a good example. And News/Talk and Sports are the last remaining dominant formats on AM, as music is really a non-starter. Time keeps on slippin' slippin' slippin'...into the future.

Yet the all-news stations that have a good FM signal, such as San Francisco, Chicago, and now LA and NYC have shown that much of the audience almost instantly migrates to the FM signal and after a year or so FM has the vast majority of listeners.

Houston failed, just as Atlanta did, with all news as it has been seen from the lower ratings in Dallas and LA that sunbelt markets don't seem to be able to sustain an all news format. It's not the band, it is the format.

And then there is WTOP in DC, the nations highest billing station with all news on FM only.

Sports stations, which depend on 25-54 men for listenership, are migrating to FM as fast as they can. Look at New York City and San Francisco and Philly where the "big" sports station is now on FM or on a simulcast.

 

[Engineering]

It's not the band, it is the format.

I disagree. KTRH and KPRC are doing well as AM News/Talk stations. News 92 FM folded. All of these are Houston market stations, but on different broadcast bands.

 

[davideduardo]

I disagree. KTRH and KPRC are doing well as AM News/Talk stations. News 92 FM folded. All of these are Houston market stations, but on different broadcast bands.

There is a considerable difference between all news and news/talk. All news does very poorly in the Sunbelt. Efforts to do the format in Atlanta and Houston failed, and the ones on the air in LA and Dallas do far worse than the ones "up north".

Talk, on the other hand, does well from LA to Atlanta, from Orlando to Phoenix in the same zone.

So, obviously, all news does poorly in such markets, while talk does well, whether on AM or FM.

 

[stan]

It’s unfortunate in a large city like Houston that an all news format doesn’t succeed. The news/talk stations in town are mostly talk rather than news.

 

[Engineering]

There is a considerable difference between all news and news/talk. All news does very poorly in the Sunbelt. Efforts to do the format in Atlanta and Houston failed

Agreed. There is indeed a difference between all news and news/talk. In the Houston market, I believe News 92 FM compares favorably with KNWS Channel 51, when they were pursuing an all news format. The outcome of both were identical.

Although news/talk are the dominant format on AM, I believe that the audience of AM is still shrinking. I don't see AM going away in the next few years, but it's hard to deny that it's in trouble. In my humble opinion, Digital AM holds the most promise for a revival, and even though it is apparently compatible with HD receivers, there needs to be much greater penetration in the consumer hands to make this a viable alternative.

 

[Engineering]

It’s unfortunate in a large city like Houston that an all news format doesn’t succeed. The news/talk stations in town are mostly talk rather than news.

I think News 92 FM, as well as KNWS Channel 51 before it, failed is because it wasn't properly funded and managed. Plus, you can't offer a duplicate of what is currently available, but instead an alternative. CNN succeeded, because it was proply funded and managed, and offered an alternative to the news coverage of the networks. Foxnews succeeded because it offered an alternative to CNN. Newsmax, Real America's Voice, Blaze TV, and The First succeeded because they offer an alternative to Foxnews, CNN, and the network newscasts. They are all news/talk, but offer something different, something that the others don't offer.

 

[b-turner]

Engineering, why don't you spearhead the group to buy an FM to do all news? You seem to know so much, it seems you'd be able to pull off what other radio groups couldn't.

 

[Engineering]

Engineering, why don't you spearhead the group to buy an FM to do all news? You seem to know so much, it seems you'd be able to pull off what other radio groups couldn't.

I have no interest. I believe the proper venue for news/talk is AM, and as I recall, you weren't successful with KYND, which had a very potent signal over Houston.

 

[Mrtejano]

Are there AM HD radio stations here in Houston? Would regular HD Radios pick up AM HD stations or is that a whole different device?

 

[HTX]

Are there AM HD radio stations here in Houston?

No. The closest is WTAW

Would regular HD Radios pick up AM HD stations or is that a whole different device?

Yes