Disney Sells 1110 KRDC to KWVE Owner Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa

[ChannelFlipper]

Very definitely there is audience for such formats... the problem is lack of advertiser interest and support.

So no ads for, say, Bud Light, eh ? Probably not AB's preferred customers. Much more younger and "diverse" formats on which to advertise.

Don't underestimate these ad buyers and marketers; they are very smart. Just ask them.

 

[Weiserguy]

Very definitely there is audience for such formats... the problem is lack of advertiser interest and support.

Out of curiosity, any idea how much of a typical consumer goods company's revenue (and by extension, profits) are generated by sales to people who have aged out of "the demo"? P&G, Unilever, 3M, GM, Ford, Toyota, etc?

 

[michael hagerty]

Out of curiosity, any idea how much of a typical consumer goods company's revenue (and by extension, profits) are generated by sales to people who have aged out of "the demo"? P&G, Unilever, 3M, GM, Ford, Toyota, etc?

I don't know, but any revenue and profits generated to those people are done without spending advertising dollars to specifically attract them.

 

[Weiserguy]

I don't know, but any revenue and profits generated to those people are done without spending advertising dollars to specifically attract them.

But my point in asking is to quantify how much of their sales and income could be at risk if those same consumers decided they didn't need to be buying products from those companies.

I've never forgotten something I heard from Admiral Grace Murray Hopper, one of the pioneers in computing. She made the point, at a computer conference and in a lot more words, that there's a cost to doing something, but there's also a cost to *not* doing that same something. And the second cost can dwarf the first for people or organizations that prefer to be shortsighted.

 

[michael hagerty]

But my point in asking is to quantify how much of their sales and income could be at risk if those same consumers decided they didn't need to be buying products from those companies.

Well, what would prompt that decision? "I haven't heard an ad for Tide on my favorite oldies AM so I'm gonna switch detergents" is probably not a sentence you're gonna hear.

The reason very little money is spent chasing people who've aged out of the demo is that it takes so much money to make an impression, much less a sale.

On the other hand, if Tide starts making you break out, you know what the other detergents on the market are---because unless you're very atypical, you're consuming some type of popular media that isn't aimed right at you. Even at 67, I'm seeing and hearing spots, billboards and online ads targeted at people 30 years younger.

 

[TheBigA]

But my point in asking is to quantify how much of their sales and income could be at risk if those same consumers decided they didn't need to be buying products from those companies.

This isn't really about buying products, since older demos don't listen to advertising. Or at least that's what they say.

What this is about is finding someone else to pay so older demos can hear their music for free.

There's no return obligation to buy that person's products either. Just give me what I want for free.

 

[davideduardo]

Out of curiosity, any idea how much of a typical consumer goods company's revenue (and by extension, profits) are generated by sales to people who have aged out of "the demo"? P&G, Unilever, 3M, GM, Ford, Toyota, etc?

It's obviously considerable. But the issue here is that the older consumers get, the less they are likely to modify brand preferences. So when it takes $1 in advertising to make $1 in sales, there is no advantage to be gained in targeting senior consumers.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

There's no return obligation to buy that person's products either. Just give me what I want for free.

Feel free to point out any other generation or demo that doesn't want what they want for free.

 

[TheBigA]

Feel free to point out any other generation or demo that doesn't want what they want for free.

I'm told other generations are paying subscriptions to hear what they want. Right?

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I'm told other generations are paying subscriptions to hear what they want. Right?

You're saying old people don't pay subscription fees to hear what they want?

SiriusXM will be most interested in hearing from you. They will learn that carrying the following channels is bad business:

40s Junction
50s Gold
60s Gold
70s on 7
80s on 8
Siriusly Sinatra
Elvis Radio
The Beatles Channel
Yacht Rock
Grateful Dead Channel
Radio Margaritaville
Classic Rewind
Classic Vinyl
Deep Tracks
Phish Radio
Tom Petty Radio
E Street Radio
1st Wave
Soul Town
Willie's Road House
Outlaw Country
Watercolors
On Broadway

Of course what these channels all have in common is they are primarily used by people in the 50+ age group.

I am 53 and I have three subscriptions myself.

 

[Weiserguy]

I'm told other generations are paying subscriptions to hear what they want. Right?

Let's cut the crap. Some people in *every* demographic generation are paying to hear content they want. But in all cases, it's a fraction of that demo. Teenagers in general don't have much disposable income, but there are definitely many who pay for Spotify (or Apple Music, Amazon, Google, etc.) so they can hear Taylor or Rihanna all day. Seniors less so, because while many can afford it and do pay for Sirius to hear Oldies or Standards or C&W, some also have hearing problems that make listening to music less pleasurable. And the Gen X'ers or Millennials more or less so, because many can't afford to take bread out of their kids mouths to pay for something they can get for free (or, more accurately, for the price of listening to an eight minute block of ads twice an hour), or all their disposable income is paying the kids' college tuition and/or squirreling a bit away to avoid living their golden years in poverty.

Oh by the way, are you saying that the 18-54 demos are *not* getting what they want for free? Show me one example of any listener sending a monthly check to WXOX so they can hear those 8-minute spot blocks. Last I looked, *that's* free too. But I guess you're saying it's okay only if one is in the right demo group.

 

[TheBigA]

You're saying old people don't pay subscription fees to hear what they want?

Did I say that? No. We're talking about free OTA radio, and people want free oldies on the radio.

Of course what these channels all have in common is they are primarily used by people in the 50+ age group.

Because they pay. (Although they find ways to get discounts) If KRTH was a subscription service, it would sound very different.

 

[TheBigA]

I guess you're saying it's okay only if one is in the right demo group.

Not just me. The supreme court says it's OK.

 

[EddieTheRapFan]

The former Radio Disney station going religious is sad, not because of the religious format itself but because K-Wave runs syndicated evangelical shows that are found everywhere. Only their Sunday worship service and Saturday public affairs show looks original.
Unless of course they actually decide to broadcast something else on AM...

 

[Weiserguy]

Not just me. The supreme court says it's OK.

The Supreme Court says many things. Currently, they say it's okay for justices to accept bribes from wealthy Republican donors to influence cases before the court, in the guise of "personal hospitality."

But to the issue at hand, please provide a citation for the particular case to which you refer.

 

[michael hagerty]

But my point in asking is to quantify how much of their sales and income could be at risk if those same consumers decided they didn't need to be buying products from those companies.

I want to circle back to this.

I'm 67. Atypical in the sense that I consume a fair amount of media that's probably at people aimed 20-30 years younger than me, but still.

So while I'm making coffee this morning, I start looking at the brands around me. Why'd I choose them?

Coffee: Starbucks Breakfast Blend (ground) from the grocery store: I wasn't a coffee drinker before I got married a second time. This was my wife's brand. I just asked how she chose it. Turns out she was at a Bible study maybe 15 years ago, had a cup of coffee, thought it tasted terrific and asked what it was.

Bread: I like dark breads and vary between Oroweat Schwarzwelder Dark Rye, San Luis Sourdough's Dark Rye and Sacramento Baking Company's Native Grain. My wife likes Dave's Killer Bread 21-grain. Never seen an ad for a single one of those.

Butter: Sunnyside Farms with sea salt. It's a California dairy (but most dairy products in the stores here are). For whatever reason, it's two bucks a pound less than Land O'Lakes or Challenge, so I buy it. If the prices were equal, I wouldn't have a preference.

Milk/Half and Half: Again, all from California dairies. I tend to buy whatever has the longest sell-by date.

Preserves: Bonne Maman. Exposed to it in France last year. Not going back to Smucker's or Welch's.

Sodas: Gave 'em up three weeks ago as part of a weight loss effort and don't plan to go back. Was a Coke guy until high school, switched to Pepsi---went back to Coke while in France because it's what most restaurants had, it was made with real sugar, and it was served in a sensible size---300ml (10-ish ounces) bottles.

Ketchup: Heinz. Grew up with it. When (in a restaurant or someone else's house) I had Hunt's or Del Monte, it was too watery.

Mustard: French's, Goulden's and Grey Poupon. Grew up with French's. Exposed to Goulden's at a picnic and Grey Poupon in a restaurant (before the TV ads).

Mayonnaise: Best Foods. Again, grew up with it. I've had others at restaurants, cookouts or whatever and I just prefer it.

Pickles: Clausen's because they're never exposed to heat and there's a really satisfying snap. I remember they had an ad with a stork that sounded like Groucho Marx, but that was after I made my choice (EDIT---I'm wrong. That was Vlasic. Clearly, I wasn't influenced enough to buy their pickles).

Dishwasher soap: Cascade. Maybe I was influenced by the TV ads when I got my first dishwasher in an apartment at age 23...I don't remember.

Liquid dish soap: Dawn. Same deal---might have been those grease-fighting ads. I had to pick something when I got my first place at age 17 and it had hit the market the year before.

Laundry soap: Tide. We both grew up with it.

Too late to make a long story short, but the few purchases we make that were influenced by advertising were influenced when we were in desirable demos.

For major purchases (TV, computers, cars, appliances), I'm going to consult owner experiences, not advertising.

Restaurants, hotels, etc.----Word of mouth (including Yelp, TripAdvisor, etc).

Probably the only thing that advertising influences at our house is movies. We're still big movie fans who enjoy the theater experience. So yeah, we'll see a spot on TV for whatever film and say "that looks good---wanna go?".

I'm open to changing any of those products above---but it would involve me using/tasting it and finding I like it better than what I buy. And advertising isn't going to be what moves me to try it. It would be someone I know, trust, or a discovery that I make away from home.

 

[TheBigA]

But to the issue at hand, please provide a citation for the particular case to which you refer.

I don't have access to the particular case handy, maybe someone else here does. It has to do with the ability of advertisers to use demographics in marketing their products. Are they discriminatory? Yes. Is it acceptable business practice? Yes. So that's what I mean when I say aiming a station at a certain age demographic is OK.

 

[davideduardo]

Coffee: Starbucks Breakfast Blend (ground) from the grocery store: I wasn't a coffee drinker before I got married a second time. This was my wife's brand. I just asked how she chose it. Turns out she was at a Bible study maybe 15 years ago, had a cup of coffee, thought it tasted terrific and asked what it was.

I have only consumed Puerto Rican coffee since 1970. When we did not have FedEx and the web, I had family on the Island send "Care Packages" of that and some other PR goodies). For last 35 yeas, it has been Alto Grande... available at Amazon now... one of the greatest recipients of international awards from anywhere. Try, and drink it best as espresso and do a double shot or triple shot if mixed with milk.

For major purchases (TV, computers, cars, appliances), I'm going to consult owner experiences, not advertising.

I think those of us who realize that the average advice-giver knows less than we do will approve of your practice. I always gather comments on TVs, appliance and the like and even have a OneNote page for appliances and services where I can easily cut and paste information.

Probably the only thing that advertising influences at our house is movies. We're still big movie fans who enjoy the theater experience. So yeah, we'll see a spot on TV for whatever film and say "that looks good---wanna go?".

We don't go anywhere without masks and still will not go to a theater or show. Because we are in the higher susceptibility age group, we opted not to take chances. So no movies, no supermarkets, no Home Depot (my toy store) and no (insert tears here) Dierks Bentley or Marco Antonio Solis next month!

We watch a lot of paid movies on our OLED great-big-huge screen. We note movies we'd like to see based on reading the Web and when they are available at home, we have one of out "Movie Nights"

My complaint with movies is that it is very, very hard to find which recent theatrical releases have become available at home. While new movies have plentiful reviews and publicity, there is not any consolidated data source that I have found that has a clear "Theatrical Movies that just became available at home" that would show when available, source, cost if any, and also if out on DVD. Someone should do a chart-style compendium of this information, with "New", "Recent" and "Still Relevant" categories (Let me know if there is something that I have not found).

More off-thread ranting: I hate movie listings that don't have an option to only view "wide release" movies. One often has to go through a list of esoteric foreign language "art films", theatrical niche documentaries and the like to find the ones that are worth paying for a one time home view... for all the rest I will wait until they become no-additional-cost inclusions on one of the streams I have.

I'm open to changing any of those products above---but it would involve me using/tasting it and finding I like it better than what I buy.

Heck, I even bought, sometimes, the food items sampled in the aisles of Costco. But we don't go to stores any more, so that is "closed for repairs" to us.

But my wife is a Le Cordon Bleu graduate, so she is cautious but curious about new items. We sample, knowing that it sometimes the "excursion" is more like a trip on The African Queen! Our trick is to make the "sampling" sort of like the aperitif... if not liked, is not the entrée or main dish of the meal and not a disappointment if found lacking... or vomit-inducing.

And advertising isn't going to be what moves me to try it. It would be someone I know, trust, or a discovery that I make away from home.

 

[michael hagerty]

I just remembered the last product I bought because of advertising I saw. Ten years ago---divorce, move, money tight. I'm 57 then, so three years out of the demo.

I see an online ad for Harry's razor blades. Supposedly longer-lasting and at a lower initial price than Gillette, which I've used since I started shaving.

I ordered some. My experience was that they didn't last as long before getting dull (I've got a pretty tough beard) and the cost was a wash because of that. So I went back to Gillette.

 

[TomásEstefan]

I have only consumed Puerto Rican coffee since 1970. When we did not have FedEx and the web, I had family on the Island send "Care Packages" of that and some other PR goodies). For last 35 yeas, it has been Alto Grande... available at Amazon now... one of the greatest recipients of international awards from anywhere. Try, and drink it best as espresso and do a double shot or triple shot if mixed with milk.

I think those of us who realize that the average advice-giver knows less than we do will approve of your practice. I always gather comments on TVs, appliance and the like and even have a OneNote page for appliances and services where I can easily cut and paste information.

We don't go anywhere without masks and still will not go to a theater or show. Because we are in the higher susceptibility age group, we opted not to take chances. So no movies, no supermarkets, no Home Depot (my toy store) and no (insert tears here) Dierks Bentley or Marco Antonio Solis next month!

We watch a lot of paid movies on our OLED great-big-huge screen. We note movies we'd like to see based on reading the Web and when they are available at home, we have one of out "Movie Nights"

My complaint with movies is that it is very, very hard to find which recent theatrical releases have become available at home. While new movies have plentiful reviews and publicity, there is not any consolidated data source that I have found that has a clear "Theatrical Movies that just became available at home" that would show when available, source, cost if any, and also if out on DVD. Someone should do a chart-style compendium of this information, with "New", "Recent" and "Still Relevant" categories (Let me know if there is something that I have not found).

More off-thread ranting: I hate movie listings that don't have an option to only view "wide release" movies. One often has to go through a list of esoteric foreign language "art films", theatrical niche documentaries and the like to find the ones that are worth paying for a one time home view... for all the rest I will wait until they become no-additional-cost inclusions on one of the streams I have.


Heck, I even bought, sometimes, the food items sampled in the aisles of Costco. But we don't go to stores any more, so that is "closed for repairs" to us.

But my wife is a Le Cordon Bleu graduate, so she is cautious but curious about new items. We sample, knowing that it sometimes the "excursion" is more like a trip on The African Queen! Our trick is to make the "sampling" sort of like the aperitif... if not liked, is not the entrée or main dish of the meal and not a disappointment if found lacking... or vomit-inducing.

We use the search function on Roku. It usually will tell what streaming service is carrying the film.