I'm still waiting for a single positive post from "'bolt," let alone any proposals for a format that might both attract listeners and make enough money to pay some salaries and keep the lights turned on. All he ever seems to post here is kvetching and a lot of baseless speculation with no actual facts to back it up. What's the matter, Bunky? Did somebody shut down your favorite format because it simply wasn't going anywhere or making enough money to sustain itself? Did you maybe lose your radio gig and can't find another one? Didn't you save enough to buy your own station, or can't you find enough investors to support your business plan? Heck, you could likely buy a station in a viable market for less than the cost of a nice house these days if you really wanted to show us all how it's done.
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Meet 97 Rock's new midday host
- Thread starter ckg279
- Start date
Still waiting for the bitter Mr. Roxalot to acknowledge failed formats. I recall your great suggestion was to simulcast Sports (or later STAR) even though it would be futile. Your ability to spin lousy ratings into a success story is worthy of a fertilizer salesman.
It's amusing how people in Buffalo defend their sacred cow 97 Rock as some kind of Radio pioneer. The format has been done everywhere as you would discover if you ever travelled. Maybe Buffalo likes mediocrity...
It's amusing how people in Buffalo defend their sacred cow 97 Rock as some kind of Radio pioneer. The format has been done everywhere as you would discover if you ever travelled. Maybe Buffalo likes mediocrity...
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So, four hours out of a 24 hour broadcast day. Should I be impressed?
The lame morning show from Grand Rapids is killing WBUF's ratings.
97 Rock and 103.3 The Edge are vastly superior radio stations. I actually prefer WBUF's music but those other two stations are programmed in an exceedingly better manner.
If you knew anything about radio nationally you'd know that 97-Rock has been the highest rated station in its format at times, and is still among the highest rated in markets of similar size. I'd be willing to bet that I've listened to more radio in other markets than you have, but the empirical evidence is available from Nielsen. Here, do a little research on Classic Rock stations. 97-Rock is still among the top performers in the format:
https://ratings.****************/content/arb_menu_rank
I still think that 107.7 would better serve the WNY audience by simulcasting WGR, who's signal at night ain't great in parts of the metro, especially when you consider how hard it is to listen to AM in today's electronically-noisy environment.
WGR-AM Radio Station Coverage Map
www.radio-locator.com
The Sabres in particular would benefit from better coverage, although some small AMs who carry games on the Sabres network may not. Maybe selling rights to them is more lucrative what 107.7 can earn on its own, even with translators.
We'll never know if moving the Star format to 107.7 would have worked because they didn't do it. When you talk about mediocrity, the format you embraced, "The Lake" defined the term. If it had brought in enough revenue in demos that advertisers wanted it would still be here. It didn't, and it's not, and the format wasn't copied elsewhere because it simply didn't work.
So, I'm still waiting for you to tell us what would work on that - or any frequency. It's easy to criticize. It's a lot more difficult to propose valid ideas that might "bring more people into the tent" and still pay the bills.
Again, tbolt, you don’t know our market. SirRox does. And so do I. 97 Rock, which launched as QFM97 in 1975, WAS a pioneer. Back then, stations playing rock were either Top 40 or progressive. I was firmly in the Top 40 camp as a teen. When I entered college, I began to sample Buffalo’s progressive stations, WPHD and then WBUF. But I wasn’t a huge fan. Then, in ‘75, program director John McGhan launched QFM97. It was just what I was looking for — album cuts from familiar rock artists. Nothing weird or too hard. I can’t comment on whether this was happening in other markets at that time. But it felt new to me. Within a year or two, the moniker Album Rock was attached to the format. And Album Rock stations began popping up across the country.
In the late ‘70s, QFM97 became 97Rock. In 1985, Taft, the then owner of 97 Rock, made the worst decision in the history of Buffalo broadcasting by dropping Album Rock for Light Rock. When Taft sold the station to Buffalo’s Rich family in 1988, speculation began circulating about 97 Rock returning. I had a friend who crossed the border each day to Rich’s summer property in Fort Erie, Ontario for secret planning meetings. My friend kept the secret. He refused to share anything. In October, the Light Rock format was dropped on a Friday, and over the course of the weekend the 97FM frequency was airing construction sounds with an announcer proclaiming every couple of minutes that a new radio station was being built. On Monday night, the Riches staged the best media party I ever attended. Familiar 97 Rock personalities were brought back, all decked out in tuxes. 97 Rock was back. I still have a 97 Rock “Back and Rockin’“ bumper sticker pasted on my garage wall.
So, yes tbolt, there are hundreds of what are now known as Classic Rock stations in just about every market. 97 Rock is no longer unique. But it has a rich, rich history. I would argue it was a pioneer. Like Rusty Bridges, I rarely listen to 97 Rock these days. But when I do, and I’m in the mood, I’ll revel in the rock tunes that were all new to me some 50 years ago.
Referring to 97 Rock as a mediocrity is an insult. Shredd and Ragan represent one of the last legendary morning teams in our market. Carl Russo is in the Buffalo Broadcasters Hall of Fame. Slick Tom Tiberi is second to none. I don’t want to get personal, tbolt. We’re all anonymous here. You don’t know me and what I accomplished in my career. And I don’t know you. Perhaps you are a legendary radio programmer in some other market. But you don’t know the Buffalo market. And your trolling in this and other threads on the Buffalo-Rochester board makes you look silly at times.
Rise and Fall of FM Rock - FoundSF
Hey Mark, Buffalo didn't invent the AOR genre. Check out the lengthy list of California FM Album Rock stations back in the late 60s and early 70s. Buffalo really has an inferiority complex. Many of their "legends" make outlandish claims about being first at so many things. Tell us about all those Bills Super Bowl victories next...
Hey Mark, Buffalo didn't invent the AOR genre. Check out the lengthy list of California FM Album Rock stations back in the late 60s and early 70s. Buffalo really has an inferiority complex. Many of their "legends" make outlandish claims about being first at so many things. Tell us about all those Bills Super Bowl victories next...
You don't even know the difference between AOR and Classic Rock. They're very different formats. Buffalo was a pioneer with AOR with WPhD back in the days of Jim Santella & company in the late '60s. You not only don't really know the market, you don't even know the evolution of Rock radio. Classic Rock evolved and largely replaced AOR because it was more marketable and achieved better ratings. The "Superstars" format created by Lee Abrams had a huge impact in the middle 70s, essentially dooming AOR, which became known as "All Over the Road" radio. Classic Rock evolved from that as AOR faded into memory. As Mark1981 points out "your trolling in this and other threads on the Buffalo-Rochester board makes you look silly at times."
Ohhhhhh ... playin' the Bills Superbowl victories card, eh. Chortle. Diversion alarm!
This is what it's come to?
OK, yeah, Bills Superbowl. Lemme tell you about Wide Right, and this is fact. ESPN has, and it's appeared numerous times, a clip of the line judge set and observing the snap for Scott Norwood and the field goal that woulda-shoulda-coulda won Superbowl 25 for the Bills... but went Wide Right ... which BTW, Bills fans have come to own. It's part of the legacy. Some teams and fans would put it deep in a closet and lock the door. Bills fans own it.
Let me walk you through this because it was plain as day. A millisecond before the center snaps the ball for the field goal attempt, one of the NY Giants' lineman clearly encroaches the line of scrimmage and moves ... the line judge reaches for the yellow penalty flag in his back pocket. He grasps the flag and ... never throws it. The Giants should have been penalized, which would have moved the ball five yards closer to the end zone. Didn't happen. Hence, Wide Right, which wasn't Norwood's fault.
But let's move beyond that.
The Bills went to FOUR consecutive Superbowls. Yep, they should have won at least one of those games, and XXV would have been the one. They got blown out in others. Bills fans own that too. Because Buffalo is a reality based city. BS doesn't fly here and is readily detected and scorned.
As numerous NFL players have testified in tribute to those great Bills Superbowl teams which produced countless NFL Hall of Fame players as well as Head Coach Marv Levy, going to one Superbowl is an accomplishment, going to four 'bowls in a 'row is a legacy. The Buffalo Bills, AFC Champions four consecutive years. That's nothing to sneeze at. Don't take it from a lone poster on a radio message board, take it from countless players and coaches who've been part of the game and know what it takes.
§
Now about "inventing the AOR genre" as it relates to the history of progressive radio and Buffalo, AOR, Lee Abrams' Superstars format and Classic Rock ... chomp on this ... WMMR, KMET, KSAN, WNEW-FM ... and McLendon's WYSL-FM ... the vanguard of the nation's FM Progressive Rock movement. It was 1969. George Hamberger, Jim Santella, Clyde Collins, HF Stone, Sir Walter Raleigh Gajewski, Jeff Lubick, Cal Brady and original program director, Paul Palo. A rogues gallery of the stoned and un-stoned, great, straight and late, the progenitors of Progressive Rock in Buffalo. WYSL-FM begat the original progressive rock WPHD.
I could go on, but Mark1981 lays it out in detail, save for one point IIRC, QFM97 became 97 Rock in 1980 ... but doesn't matter, he has the progression correct, and lays the foundation to why 97 Rock today remains a market legacy. He's also correct in saying you look "silly," bolt. You sometimes bring up compelling points, but this one? Vacant.
To be in the vanguard, it would have to be 1967, and KMPX in San Francisco, started by the big daddy Tom Donohue. There were several others in that same year, thanks in part to a new FCC rule, and in part to the over commercialization of AM Top 40.
Historical Timeline of 106.9 FM in San Francisco - KMPX KEAR KHIP |
A Brief History Of 106.9 FM In San Francisco KPUP 106.9 FM (1958-1960) KHIP (1960-1962) KMPX (1962-1978) KEAR
bayarearadio.org
But preach on, Rusty.
They won't accept that in Buffalo. Didn't you know that the Beatles, Who, Rolling Stones, and every other significant Rock artist got started in Buffalo. The California scene never happened, but maybe they should look up KZAP. Talk about Myopic people on this board.To be in the vanguard, it would have to be 1967, and KMPX in San Francisco, started by the big daddy Tom Donohue. There were several others in that same year, thanks in part to a new FCC rule, and in part to the over commercialization of AM Top 40.
Historical Timeline of 106.9 FM in San Francisco - KMPX KEAR KHIP |
A Brief History Of 106.9 FM In San Francisco KPUP 106.9 FM (1958-1960) KHIP (1960-1962) KMPX (1962-1978) KEAR
Not every AOR morphed into Classic Rock. Different markets had slightly different Rock formats. Buffalo didn't invent any of those genres...
Point out one post that says that Buffalo claims to have invented that or any of those genres. The fact that they were likely one of the first dozen stations in the country to do the format speaks for itself. The fact that 97-Rock has been the #1 Classic Rock station IN THE COUNTRY at times in the past gives credence to their claim to be a legitimate legacy Classic Rock station. Your myopic view of Buffalo radio from your modern-day vantage point from outside the market ignores the considerable influence Buffalo radio stations and programmers historically had in radio. You weren't here, and don't know the turf from then, or now for that matter.
BTW, I'm still waiting for you to have anything resembling an ANSWER instead of just bitchin', moanin', and trollin'.
Referencing 1969 was probably not the best sentence I've constructed here. 1969 was intended as a reference to WYSL-FM ... and KMET and others were included to signify the importance of Progressive Rock and its evolution in major markets and Buffalo as well. And yes, KMPX was arguably the national originator, but here, in this market, WYSL-FM was the first. A knowledgeable radio friend insists WYSL-FM went Progressive in 1968. I replied that while this may be true, at the start it was Progressive only from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m., while 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. were simulcast with Top 40 WYSL-AM 1400. To the best of my recollection, WYSL-FM went full bore, 24-7 Progressive in 1969. The list of personalities would apply to Progressive WYSL-FM in it's earlier 12 hour iteration as well as its 24-7 iteration.To be in the vanguard, it would have to be 1967, and KMPX in San Francisco, started by the big daddy Tom Donohue. There were several others in that same year, thanks in part to a new FCC rule, and in part to the over commercialization of AM Top 40.
Historical Timeline of 106.9 FM in San Francisco - KMPX KEAR KHIP |
A Brief History Of 106.9 FM In San Francisco KPUP 106.9 FM (1958-1960) KHIP (1960-1962) KMPX (1962-1978) KEAR
But preach on, Rusty.
Now then, as to the snark about formats and rock groups originating in Buffalo... C'mon man. As I read this thread, it doesn't appear that any poster made such a statement. Posters simply put a time line to Progressive, AOR and the evolution to Classic Rock as it related to Buffalo. WYSL-FM, WPHD-FM, WBUF-FM, WGRQ-FM, WZIR-FM and WUWU-FM.
But as long as we're in this ballpark, one could go back to WKBW AM 1520 as a pioneer in Top 40 radio, locally and nationally. And yes ... other (AM) stations in other markets made the switch to Top 40 earlier ... but then again, this is the Buffalo-Niagara Falls-Rochester board.
I dunno Matter of personal opinion here. I dont think you can call anything “vastly superior”. 97 Rock will forever succeed because if S&R. The rest of the day is a matter of personal opinion about playlists.
Indeed, Rusty, it all began with KB! You’re right. None of us in this thread laid claim to starting a particular format. But Buffalo radio was a force, from the late ‘50s onward. Let me educate you, tbolt, because again, (and I will shout here) YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY ZILCH ABOUT OUR RADIO MARKET AND ITS STORIED HISTORY. KB Radio could have brought the Beatles to Buffalo for a concert the night after their initial appearance on Ed Sullivan in February 1964. But the Beatles were so new that KB personalties Danny Neaverth and Joey Reynolds passed, fearing the financial risk. Ah, hindsight! In 1967, KB evening personality Bud Ballou reached Ringo Starr on the phone. “A Day In The Life” was played by Ringo over that phone line for the first time. I was listening that night! Now, did Ringo join some personalties on other AM Top 40 giants in the US doing the same thing? I don’t know. There was no Internet at the time. My listening experience was limited to Buffalo stations. I was too young at the time to realize there were other 50,000 watt AM giants in the country. But the fact is I heard one of the iconic songs from the Beatles‘ most creative album on a phone line sometime in 1967. And KB introduced me and tens of thousands of listeners to Abbey Road in 1969. Again, tbolt, listen. Because you don’t seem to have that capacity. We’re not saying KB Radio was alone here. But the station was certainly a national trend setter.
Tbolt also misrepresented my post about Album Rock radio. I would argue there’s a difference between Album Rock and Progressive. I glanced through the link you provided. Indeed, there were many progressives stations across the country in the late ‘60s. I REALIZE THAT! As Rusty pointed out, WYSL-FM and then WPHD introduced the progressive format to Buffalo in 1969. The station employed legendary personalities. I remember listening to Jim Santella and HF Stone. But I was too young to appreciate it. I was all in with Jackson Armstrong and Don Berns and the Top 40 sound of KB Radio. But between my freshman and sophomore years in college, my tastes began to change. I‘ll admit Don leaving KB for WPHD was a factor. Thanks to a mutual friend, I found myself at Don Berns’ house in the summer of ‘74 as he practiced album cut segues on his turntables. I have the debut of his WPHD show on cassette. Unfortunately, Don’s career as a progressive DJ didn’t last long. Bob Howard, the owner of WYSL-AM and WPHD, dropped the progressive format. Don Berns returned to doing Top 40 radio on WYSL AM & FM. WBUF then launched its progressive format. But it was a bit too free-form me. Then, in ‘75, QFM97 was launched on WGRQ. AGAIN, I’M NOT CLAIMING QFM97 LAUNCHED THE ALBUM ROCK FORMAT NATIONWIDE. But I found it very accessible. Album rock cuts from the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Supertramp, Eagles, Peter Frampton, etc. It became my favorite radio station, having outgrown KB.
The upshot of my diatribe here, tbolt, is that we’re sick and tired of your attempt to diminish Buffalo radio’s storied history. Yes, we all realize there were other stations and markets that were pioneers as well. But KB Radio, WPHD (WYSL-FM) and 97 Rock all did great things. And I won’t let you describe 97 Rock as a mediocrity when, except for the ”burnt toast” incident of a few years ago, that station and its personalties made phenomenal contributions as a leader in Album Rock and then Classic Rock radio.
Tbolt also misrepresented my post about Album Rock radio. I would argue there’s a difference between Album Rock and Progressive. I glanced through the link you provided. Indeed, there were many progressives stations across the country in the late ‘60s. I REALIZE THAT! As Rusty pointed out, WYSL-FM and then WPHD introduced the progressive format to Buffalo in 1969. The station employed legendary personalities. I remember listening to Jim Santella and HF Stone. But I was too young to appreciate it. I was all in with Jackson Armstrong and Don Berns and the Top 40 sound of KB Radio. But between my freshman and sophomore years in college, my tastes began to change. I‘ll admit Don leaving KB for WPHD was a factor. Thanks to a mutual friend, I found myself at Don Berns’ house in the summer of ‘74 as he practiced album cut segues on his turntables. I have the debut of his WPHD show on cassette. Unfortunately, Don’s career as a progressive DJ didn’t last long. Bob Howard, the owner of WYSL-AM and WPHD, dropped the progressive format. Don Berns returned to doing Top 40 radio on WYSL AM & FM. WBUF then launched its progressive format. But it was a bit too free-form me. Then, in ‘75, QFM97 was launched on WGRQ. AGAIN, I’M NOT CLAIMING QFM97 LAUNCHED THE ALBUM ROCK FORMAT NATIONWIDE. But I found it very accessible. Album rock cuts from the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Supertramp, Eagles, Peter Frampton, etc. It became my favorite radio station, having outgrown KB.
The upshot of my diatribe here, tbolt, is that we’re sick and tired of your attempt to diminish Buffalo radio’s storied history. Yes, we all realize there were other stations and markets that were pioneers as well. But KB Radio, WPHD (WYSL-FM) and 97 Rock all did great things. And I won’t let you describe 97 Rock as a mediocrity when, except for the ”burnt toast” incident of a few years ago, that station and its personalties made phenomenal contributions as a leader in Album Rock and then Classic Rock radio.
Sidebar, BTW, "HF Stone" was Helen Stone, African American. She was Buffalo's early Progressive Rock parallel to women like Allison Steele, who worked at WMMR-FM Philadelphia and was better known as the "Night Bird" at WNEW-FM.
The use of the word "Accepted" is telling. This comment and the flood of others reek of the Provincial attitudes of posters in Buffalo. The history of local Radio that's been discussed left out the fact that during that "heyday" jocks moved around the country. Relocation was common and part of the biz. I assume the new guy will play the same songs as the former midday host. I mentioned earlier that listeners barely noticed when the morning show was fired. As long as "Freebird" keeps coming out of their speakers, they shouldn't care where the guy is from. Maybe that's not the case there...
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Oy ... sometimes I wonder why we even bother, but here, bolt, is the concept regarding "accepted as part of the family:" The term has been used over the years. locally and nationally, by countless PDs, consultants, managers and air personalities. It's used in numerous fields, from sports teams, the military, law, medical, banking to education. Call it "lay of the land," "the system," "the format," "how things work," or "mesh."
You've become such an obtuse contrarian that you're like the repeat talk show caller who calls in, regardless of the topic, be it sports, politics, whatever, just to voice an opposite opinion for no other reason to stir the pot. After a while it becomes tiresome, to the point of being "silly," which is one step from being discounted as "that guy's just nuts," and eventually ignored.
You're close to reaching the "Joanne point" (referencing a long ago poster here who insisted she owned WJJL, now WEBR.)
Hmmmm ... could it be? Nahhhh.
We give way too much time to a guy who obviously isn't from here and doesn't know the market. To say that the "toast" incident and the eventual move to Shredd and Ragan at 97-Rock didn't cause a ripple locally is one in a long list of ridiculous statements on this board. JP's exit from 97-Rock and subsequent WECK drama made news locally that extended far beyond the radio community thanks to coverage by other media. The demise of Star on 102.5 got even more local coverage. The idea that listeners are so jaded and uninterested in local radio in both Buffalo and Rochester is simply and demonstrably wrong considering the amount of media coverage that events (both good and bad) get beyond the local radio community.
I've heard a lot of cookie cutter, syndicated and VT radio in markets large and small. Yes, there's some of it in the Buffalo and Rochester markets. We are fortunate to also have some pretty good locally-focused radio hanging on here thanks to the talents of people in positions of influence who are hitting revenue targets that help keep corporate at bay. Yes, some companies are more top-down than others and impose practices and playlists on daily routines, but we've still got programmers who are able to work around some of the cookie-cutter approach with special programming and weekend breaks from the tight playlists. That doesn't happen everywhere.
And the main reason, IMO, is that they are LIVE AND LOCAL. They're willing to make the investment to get on-air personalities who can relate to the community while at the same time playing the music. Can we say that of, say, WBUF? Star 96.1(outside of AM drive)? MAYBE you can put Kiss into the conversation(even though they now have Sue O'Neil, she likely VT's her shift).
HTZ FM in St. Catharines is what WBUF SHOULD have sounded like. They're live up until 7pm. They've been doing AOR for DECADES.
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