• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Would an FM Sports/Talk station succeed in Buffalo without PBP Sports?

B

BobBarnett

Okay, there are a number of bright programming minds sprinkled in among the regular posters on this board. Many---actually know and understand "Buffalo" radio. So, I pose this question as a hypothetical: Could an FM sports station be successful in Buffalo--without Bills or Sabres play-by-play as an anchor?

Obviously, WGR-AM is the legacy sports brand, but if a company launched an FM sports station--what would you suggest is the true point of differentiation--other than AM vs. FM? Without being a WGR clone---how would you program to attack WGR?

Just curious. It feels like Buffalo is ripe for an FM sports station--and my gut tells me that someone will do it--at some point--especially with the popularity of the Bills and the Sabres on the rise.
 
My view is that it depends on the personalities. You get great personalities that people want to hear, and there may be an opening. There are several sports stations around the country that don't depend on play by play. I notice that iHeart has flipped several stations to sports talk around the country. They have an FM in Seattle that only has the Kraken. They have an FM in Dallas that only has the Mavericks. The legacy sports stations are winning in all cases I know, but the stations found a way to hang in.

One important thing to look into is the rights agreements Audacy has with the Sabres and Bills in terms of what you're allowed to do with the team trademarks. There was an iHeart station I'm aware of that got sent a C&D because it held a tailgate party before an NFL game. They may even prevent another station from saying the team name, the way stations use "the big game" to talk about the Super Bowl.
 
Last edited:
BobBarnett said:
Okay, there are a number of bright programming minds sprinkled in among the regular posters on this board. Many---actually know and understand "Buffalo" radio. So, I pose this question as a hypothetical: Could an FM sports station be successful in Buffalo--without Bills or Sabres play-by-play as an anchor?

Obviously, WGR-AM is the legacy sports brand, but if a company launched an FM sports station--what would you suggest is the true point of differentiation--other than AM vs. FM? Without being a WGR clone---how would you program to attack WGR?

Just curious. It feels like Buffalo is ripe for an FM sports station--and my gut tells me that someone will do it--at some point--especially with the popularity of the Bills and the Sabres on the rise.
Click to expand...
Are you saying WBUF is about to finally give up on the Rock format?

Launching a new sports format would require hiring talent.
That would be expensive. Isn't KB doing national sports? I know that's an AM signal, but nobody would care if it was on FM. It appears that people in Buffalo are only interested in the Bills (with the Sabres a distant second). Sports Talk about Baseball or Basketball likely wouldn't work there. I don't see the point of being the 2nd sports station without the game broadcasts. The NFL actually prefers their games to air on FM--which isn't happening in Buffalo at the moment.

Sports commentator Stephen A. Smith put ripples in the Buffalo water by claiming that Bills wide receiver Stephon Diggs wants to leave the team. He claimed to have "sources" but didn't elaborate. Sports Talk often involves speculation about player trades and coaching changes. It gets tedious...
 
Last edited:
BobBarnett said:
Okay, there are a number of bright programming minds sprinkled in among the regular posters on this board. Many---actually know and understand "Buffalo" radio. So, I pose this question as a hypothetical: Could an FM sports station be successful in Buffalo--without Bills or Sabres play-by-play as an anchor?

Obviously, WGR-AM is the legacy sports brand, but if a company launched an FM sports station--what would you suggest is the true point of differentiation--other than AM vs. FM? Without being a WGR clone---how would you program to attack WGR?

Just curious. It feels like Buffalo is ripe for an FM sports station--and my gut tells me that someone will do it--at some point--especially with the popularity of the Bills and the Sabres on the rise.
Click to expand...
Sports Talk takes years to built an audience. In a pro market like Buffalo, you'd need to be local at minimum 6a-7pm weekdays to even start the conversation and take time to build the audience with at least some names that the market knows.

A good starting place for research would be Baltimore, where Audacy's "105.7 The Fan" has previously had the Ravens and Orioles PBP, but lost them over time to Hearst's WBAL/WIYY. The play-by-play rights will help bring audience boosts to successful teams during playoff runs and obviously more sellable product, but it is not a necessity. Audacy's KRLD-FM is the flagship of the Dallas Cowboys and Texas Rangers, but Cumulus' KTCK/KTCK-FM remains the dominant Sports station in the market.

The way to beat WGR would be through local hosts that know the city and don't necessary tow the Pegula line using their place as the "unofficial voice of the fans" to win.

Consulting fees available upon request :)
 
Obviously it takes money but it's an interesting idea. GR has been stale for years. Friends I know that are huge Buffalo sports fans, don't even tune in anymore. Schoop and the Bulldog? Please. Not having the rights would require extra hustle and more money but I think an FM sports station could put a dent into GR.
 
One need only look at the experience of WNSA 107.7 in Buffalo to see that sports talk can work on FM in the Buffalo market. Granted, it was 20 years ago, and the market is much different today. But if memory serves, WGR’s sports format was less than a year old when Adelphia launched WNSA in the early 2000s. The Rigas-owned Sabres moved their games to WNSA. And the competition was underway.

Howard Simon anchored morning drive and Mike Schopp was the afternoon host on WNSA. The station used the resources of the Empire Sports Network, also owned by the Rigases. Despite its weak signal, WNSA gave WGR a run for its money. I remember WNSA even did a Bills pre-game show. I believe Bills games were still airing on 97 Rock at the time. The arrests of the Rigases for financial improprieties led to the downfall of Adelphia and the eventual dissolution of WNSA.

Would an FM sports station in Buffalo be able to successfully compete against WGR today? It would be a huge challenge. WGR is quite established. As others have pointed out, live local hosts would be needed from 6am-7pm. Nationally produced programs wouldn’t work. It would need to Bills and Sabres talk with some local college sports thrown in. National hosts talking baseball and NBA would be ignored by listeners. Plus, I would think you’d need some recognizable names to create instant credibility. And I would think any FM sports station in Buffalo should eventually make a play for Bills and Sabres games, especially in light of Audacy’s fiscal problems.
 
Theater of My Mind said:
You can't dismiss WGR's disadvantage of being an AM-only radio station if a full-market FM sports competitor would emerge. For one thing, the major sports teams would likely want their games to be carried on FM when their contracts come up for renewal.
Click to expand...
It seems inevitable that Audacy will exit Buffalo. When that happens, the sports format could transition to an FM signal. The Bills could buy the KISS 98.5 signal for dirt cheap. They would then have complete control over the content eliminating any criticism of the team...
 
Hmmm, lemme see. Audacy is on the brink of collapse. Its share price is melting. If it goes into bankruptcy, contracts very likely will be cancelled. Remember when Citadel crapped the bed and the bankruptcy court allowed the sports contract with the Bills to be cancelled? That's when the Bills held their nose and went from 97 Rock to WGR, a station it despised because of past personality clashes. But burned bridges were repaired, and egos were buffed up.

If Audacy goes Chapter 11 and the bankruptcy court allows contracts to be canceled, and if the co-owned Bills and Sabres need another broadcast partner ... well then, an FM is a logical choice. But sports talk radio cannot be done on the cheap. It takes qualified, talented people with smarts, hustle and personality.

Sports without one or both of the major teams? That would cost a lot of money. Personnel outlay would be four times that of a music station. It would require a special kind of management that understands sports-talk radio ... how it's sold and promoted. It takes a unique sales staff to sell news-talk and sports-talk, formats that are not ten-in-a-row music formats. A sports station which has the franchises encounters unique problems. A sports station without sports teams faces those same problems, times ten. Whatay gonna do when the Bills and/or Sabres are playing and the only people listening to the guy on the air are his wife/girlfriend and his mother? Good luck.
 
Last edited:
lanceventa said:
The way to beat WGR would be through local hosts that know the city and don't necessary tow the Pegula line using their place as the "unofficial voice of the fans" to win.
Click to expand...
The power of ownership can make life extremely difficult for stand alones that don't have the broadcast rights. A station can call itself the "Voice of the Bills fan" or "Voice of the Sabres fan," but this means very little when the games are on the air on the other station. You defy the Pegulas at your own risk. Life can be made very difficult for beat reporters who often bear the backlash when bomb-throwing air talent honks off the team owner, GM, coach or PR/Communications VP, and to say the least, players. These guys get frozen out, denied access and placed in the last row. Shizzle happens. WGR these days has been quite adept at being objectively critical of the Bills while maintaining good relationships with the team. It's a thin tightrope to be walked. A stand alone without the franchise walks that tightrope ... without a net. Good luck.
 
Rusty Bridges said:
You defy the Pegulas at your own risk. Life can be made very difficult for beat reporters who often bear the backlash
Click to expand...

I think one can assume that a competing sports station will not get credentials for games or team events.

I'm not aware that TS has a back door into league events out of town either. Maybe they do.
 
Look at WGR's ratings between the Bills and Sabres seasons. They drop off pretty dramatically without the broadcasts even if they still have access to management and players and established personalities (for better or worse) in the market. I'm not a fan of content that centers on "barstool" sports talk, sports betting, and fantasy sports and blather that focuses more on the hosts than the team. It would be nice if we had a local sports station that centered on people who actually had expertise in the sports and the teams we have here, but I may not be the typical sports fan. I do agree that the play-by-play rights are likely to be up for grabs in the foreseeable future. If somebody has deep enough pockets and a good FM signal that's languishing, that might be the time to move as long as the Pegulas don't decide to buy their own FM signal. If they do that, the Kiss format will likely be looking for a new home.
 
SirRoxalot said:
If somebody has deep enough pockets and a good FM signal that's languishing, that might be the time to move as long as the Pegulas don't decide to buy their own FM signal. If they do that, the Kiss format will likely be looking for a new home.
Click to expand...
When the "102.5-on-the-block" rumors began circulating, it occurred for a brief moment that Pegula Sports Entertainment might be the suitor: A big 100k FM reaching ears on both sides of the border? Made sense. But no, it was EMF.

Another NFL-NHL owner, Stan Kronke, owns a few radio stations. The Pegulas might want to take a look at his broadcast playbook: There are pros and cons associated with a pro sports franchisee also owning a broadcast facility. One of the knocks on WNSA when the Rigas clan owned the station while also owning the Sabres was that talk show hosts spouted the company line. To some extent, this was true... understandably. What talk show host whose paycheck was signed by Rigas would jeopardize his car payment, mortgage and kids' braces?

So, radio geekazoids ... what would Pegula buy? What could Pegula buy? A stand alone 50 kW FM in the center of the band that reaches fans ears in Buffalo and Canada? Said FM and a 5kW AM with a great daytime signal and a night signal that covers Toronto (better than it covers Batavia)? Said FM and said AM, plus a 50kW AM flamethrower that, when tuned-up, could and would cover "17 states?"

Heck, with Audacy's plummeting share price, Pegula might be able to buy the entire rot ... er, lot. But why would he want all that mess? He's a businessman.

So then ... buy the 5kW AM and the mid band FM. Keep sports format on the AM, keep the CHR format on the FM. Simulcast the games, and maximize the ancillary feature programming revenue on the FM morning show. Something similar to what WGR did in the early 90s with 97 Rock.
 
Last edited:
Naturally, the industry experts can share views on the bit-n-pieces. However, from my 30,000-foot-view, so to speak... despite the recurring mantra that 'Buffalo is a sports town', it really isn't. It is a Bills and Sabres town... not even a football/hockey town. [OK, from time to time, the Bandits/Bisons/college basketball get some fleeting interest.] But, truth is, there seems to be infinite thirst for anything and everything about those two teams. From the hard core sports-focused chatter to peripheral what-color-is-Josh-Allen's-truck type stuff. So, IMO, yea, it'd likely do quite well
 
Rusty Bridges said:
Heck, with Audacy's plummeting share price, Pegula might be able to buy the entire rot ... er, lot. But why would he want all that mess? He's a businessman.

So then ... buy the 5kW AM and the mid band FM. Keep sports format on the AM, keep the CHR format on the FM. Simulcast the games, and maximize the ancillary feature programming revenue on the FM morning show.
Click to expand...
I doubt that Pegula has any interest in buying and running a CHR format. His group might want one FM for his teams. His advisors could also be telling him not to waste money buying a radio station. The Bills take most of the money anyway. WGR gets to air the games, but having the rights isn't very lucrative for Audacy.

If Townsquare somehow got the Bills games, then flipping WBUF to sports might make sense. It would still be expensive. Many teams in other markets have their games on stations that are music formats. Football is only one game a week for about 4 months...
 
Last edited:
TheBigA said:
Just an FYI: The Pegulas have an interest in music, although not pop music. PSE owns a record label, publishing company, and historic studio complex in Nashville. So they might have an interest in country music. It's possible they may be regular listeners of WYRK.
Click to expand...
Based on reports, they spend very little time in Buffalo. I doubt that WYRK is on their mind. I'm also sure they own many things. Billionaires like to have lots of shiny toys. Of course, he will bleed that community dry with the stadium deal...
 
tbolt909 said:
I doubt that Pegula has any interest in buying and running a CHR format. His group might want one FM for his teams ... Many teams in other markets have their games on stations that are music formats. Football is only one game a week for about 4 months...
Click to expand...
The Rich Products family probably wasn't fond of Led Zeppelin and Ozzie, but they liked making money. Same for Pegula. They don't care is it's Dua Lipa, Luke Combs, Taylor Swift ... or James Taylor. If it makes money, it's all green and good. That's why companies hire Market Managers and whatever the heck Program Directors are called these days.
 
Besides incentivizing Howard Simon to come out of retirement to anchor mornings, are there any young, fresh sports-talk talent in the market that “most people” would agree are suitable for this kind of scenario? I think we agree that it would have to be semi-familiar talent that know the area and its psyche, sports history, and competitive challenges— in order to hit the ground running. I can’t imagine that an out of market talent would get up to speed quick enough (and deep enough) to make a difference. (Except maybe someone who once worked in the market and grew to a bigger market) Maybe some TV sports people? I wasn’t here for the previous failed sports-talk attempts—-but that was mostly old newspaper guys that were transitioning, right?
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom