How many standard clock radios have HD capability.
My car has a HD radio and honestly most of the time it’s not even receiving the signal.
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HD Radio
- Thread starter BruceB
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My car has a HD radio and honestly most of the time it’s not even receiving the signal.
What's being overlooked is that HD Radio was developed in response to a threat to conventional FM radio that turned out to be way overblown -- satellite radio. Even if iBiquity didn't hamstring it by going the "greed is good" route and demanding the licensing fee from manufacturers, it still would have bombed. SiriusXM, despite all those radios in all those cars, and a government-approved monopoly that locks out any competition, still has fewer than 40 million subscribers, and dozens of channels that are listened to by fewer people nationwide than a typical local FM in a major market. HD was stillborn, and now, with the consumers in the money demos -- and the future consumers they're raising -- turning away from radio, it's not going to be brought to life by the generations that lament radio's heyday.
The concept of digital radio was first conceived at least 35 years ago. I had first heard of it around 1990, and I can't imagine it was a completely new concept at the time. Satellite radio was more than a decade away, though it had been thought of, too, by that point. I remember digital radio being discussed more as a way to make AM competitive and also as a way to make sure radio couldn't be overtaken by the CD. Some also were concerned that cable delivered music services could take hold and cause radio problems. Digital was seen as a way to keep radio competitive. I don't think the technology had been used anywhere other than maybe amateur radio, and it obviously had a ways to go before finding something practical that could work in the real world, but it wasn't a concept that was rushed to market. You are right, however, that the threats to conventional radio at the time were overblown. No one was ditching their radios for CD's, and CD's became less of a threat because radio tended to get its product bundled with CD players. Cable music services didn't have a convenient way to become portable until the internet, and their model has, for the most part, been outdone by satellite and streaming services.
If HD Radio had been able to launch a decade earlier, it might've taken off. By the time it had actually launched anywhere in the real world, people had more entertainment options. The true digital future of radio had already become understood to be internet, not transmitter, delivered, and the intended audience was already looking at those options rather than new radios, which it had already stopped buying en masse.
I got a 2019 Hyundai Tucson a few months back and it was the first with an HD radio. There aren't any HD stations closer than Memphis so it doesn't do me any good.
Like BruceB said, and like I mentioned earlier, they're available where everyone shops for electronics -- online.
Although I agree that when HD came out, the rollout was horrible. HD radios in the stores were few and far between, with little promotion for the technology. HD Radios were way too expensive, and you couldn't hear the HD in the stores (because of the metal buildings on the FM side & tons of RFI on the AM side). That's why I didn't buy one until Sangean came out with the HDR-16 maybe 5-6 years ago.
And if they promoted it, maybe people would find it on their car soundsystems. Then again, maybe they wouldn't. Just Bluetooth your phone to the system and listen to Spotify. That's what my Millennial cousins do.
Agreed, except when HD Radio was rolled out, internet streaming was still in its relative infancy. I remember listening to Radio streams online back in the mid to late 2000's. Buffering, glitchy, and you had to have your computer to listen because many phones at the time didn't have good internet operations. While it's true the IPhone and other smartphones were available, I remember most of my friends and acquaintances still having flip phones until around 2010.
The problem was that the equipment was expensive, it was too restricted in scope (too few brands, and the reputable radio makers didn't have many, if any, HD radio models), and the promotion was horrible. Would it have changed anything in the long run had it been done "right"? Not so sure. The internet operative smartphone changed everything. It's already chopping into OTA radio (and probably satellite as well), so there's no evidence that had HD been rolled out better it still wouldn't have been cast aside eventually, because it's OTA.
If your giving it away I will take it as I always wanted a Sangean componant tuner but they are too expensive for me to buy.
This may be semi-related, but do current car radios with HD have it for FM only or is it also on AM? I know that I can't get anything in HD on FM in my area and I haven't tried it on AM yet. The vehicle I have with it is actually the one my wife drives so I haven't tried it on AM yet, but there's really nothing I want to hear on AM anyway.
Fair point that HD Radio probably had about a 5 year (+/- one year) window where it didn't have much competition. We might not have known it at the time, but that wasn't enough time to achieve critical mass. The average person who buys a new car keeps it 8-12 years. Plus, most everyone in any decent sized metropolitan area had broadband internet by that time. I lived in a college town of about 100,000, and I got broadband internet in 2003. I wasn't an early adapter by any means. No one was going to tell me to ditch my roughly 10 year old home stereo for a brand new one with HD when the programming was already available on my computer. I can't imagine many would've been receptive to that message. iPods were already ubiquitous by 2005-06. Maybe HD Radio should've tried harder to piggyback on the iPod, like it did the Zune a few years later, as that had been its business model for a long time, but Apple has always insisted broadcasters work with it on its terms, not theirs. Nobody has any reason to believe that approach would've ever been successful, even if it had been tried. Cell phone providers were encouraging their customers to upgrade their phones every 2-3 years. Once the smartphone came out, smartphones were obviously going to win that race. Phones were the most disposable commonly used technology we had.
You won't get any argument out of me that the rollout of HD Radio was botched badly. Broadcasters' own research said the "stations between the stations," the layered structure of additional channels, and the HD Alliance's programming were bad ideas. Rather than pay attention to the research, they went full speed ahead. No surprise it didn't work well. Then, HD Radio had the problems of expensive equipment, licensing fees, and mediocre product. Like you said, though, HD Radio had little chance of succeeding, even if the rollout had been better. More people might have had access to HD Radio by now, but they probably wouldn't use it any more than they use radio today. We have easier and better ways to get radio that don't involve transmitters.
Car radios with HD also get AM HD and it sounds good but there are not many AM stations that broadcast in HD. There never were any in rural areas where you live and the AM HD signal does not go out that far reliably when the AM is also broadcasting in analog.
My observation from those early days of HD Radio was that it was originally marketed as a sound quality improvement to FM radio, equating to prior transition from vinyl to CDs. Therefore, like the early days of CDs, the early days of HD Radio was considered "audiophile". As a result, HD receivers were "high end" audio and the vehicle manufacturers only included HD Radio in their "luxury" packages. This type of marketing tactic was the first nails in the HD coffin from the outset. Also, we did not have multicast at launch.
It wasn't until multicast came along that HD started to inch up slightly. By that time, the reception to HD was lackluster and the industry did not do much to promote it. The car manufacturers were calling it a "luxury". The industry would eventually step up very slightly promoting HD as "the channels between the channels" and we would see an uptick (though not sharp) of HD penetration. We would start to see car manufacturers start to include HD in their "lower" accessory packages.
Of course, using HD multicasts as overglorified STLs for translators was probably the biggest economic boon for the technology, by comparison.
Even without the Xperi licensing fees, the economic investment in equipment by radio stations was still pretty enormous to deploy HD Radio. For noncommercial stations and LPFMs, the Xperi license to deploy HD with multicast is $5,000 paid over time.
It wasn't until multicast came along that HD started to inch up slightly. By that time, the reception to HD was lackluster and the industry did not do much to promote it. The car manufacturers were calling it a "luxury". The industry would eventually step up very slightly promoting HD as "the channels between the channels" and we would see an uptick (though not sharp) of HD penetration. We would start to see car manufacturers start to include HD in their "lower" accessory packages.
Of course, using HD multicasts as overglorified STLs for translators was probably the biggest economic boon for the technology, by comparison.
Even without the Xperi licensing fees, the economic investment in equipment by radio stations was still pretty enormous to deploy HD Radio. For noncommercial stations and LPFMs, the Xperi license to deploy HD with multicast is $5,000 paid over time.
If 2021 and 2022 models are considered current, then the answer is YES, there are HD radios with both FM and AM bands, I have a 2021 Toyota Avalon Hybrid and all Toyota Avalons have a radio that in one unit, has the SXM satellite and the JBL HD radios with both AM and FM. Fortunately for me, when in Tampa, there is an HD AM station (WTMP-1150) that has a format of Motown and R&R from the 1960’s-1980’s. They broadcast in HD during the daylight hours, but both translators (one in Tampa and one just north of Saint Petersburg, broadcast in HD 24/7 - both at 250 watts - the max allowed translators. (I had always wondered in translators could broadcast in HD and apparently they can, the HD on their translators gives a slightly more robust signal and filters out some of the interference from other translators). I have a friend with a Lexus EX350 2023 andit’s JBL HD radio also has both the AM and FM bands.
I have a couple of questions about something that may be related to HD. FM stations provided Muzak to businesses, and there was a station in the Charlotte NC area that did reading for the blind for those who had special receivers. Is this somehow related to the technology that allows HD?
Yes and no.
The technology for the Muzak and reading services was called SCA. It was analog audio that was modulated as part of the analog FM signal, at frequencies above human hearing. Special receivers decoded those signals (which were usually centered at 67 or 92 kHz above and below the FM station's center frequency) and demodulated the analog audio.
HD Radio also uses frequencies on either side of the center frequency, but it generates a separate set of carriers that carry digital data. Early HD technology sometimes even used separate transmitters and antennas from the analog signal. Newer models do analog and HD all in one box.
My memory was there was a couple of aspects they were advertising. One was an improvement in quality: "AM sounds like FM, FM sounds like CD". The other was the "channels between the channels" which was to introduce much more variety to the FM music band, as some kind of blunt towards the great variety of satellite radio stations that were appealing. Also, "and it's free", compared to subscription satellite radio.
I also remember in those early days, a coordinated effort was made to fille out the HD-2's and HD-3's with formats that were missing from the traditional FM radio dial. Jazz, Comedy, Oldies, Country classics, Dance/EDM, 70's, 80's, etc. (Here in Boston there was an HD-2 that featured Irish Music.)
Also, they were pushing you to buy a standalone radio. Now they (seem to) have given up on individual radios, in place of getting the HD feature in cars....which has been pretty successful.
Yes, WTMP has adjusted their format, it’s an odd mix to be sure, but I like it!! But……on their facebook page, almost everyone posting hates the new format and wants them to return to playing the old format.
My experience has been that I turn the HD radio off when I'm driving a car that is equipped with it. The added digital compression is pretty obvious and (for me, at least) a dealbreaker.
I agree.
HD doesn't really work too well around here anyway (too many hills), so I don't bother with it much. The few times that I have, I've found the HD feed to be somewhat harsh and overly bright compared to the normal analog feed.
Frankly, if the AM radio in my car didn't sound so muddy and dull (hard 4.5 kHz lowpass filter, probably), I'd be perfectly happy with that (all I listen to is KCBS anyway, and their AM 740 signal is much more reliable and solid around here than the FM 106.9 one is).
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stereo separation is noticeably better when the HD kicks in.....
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