Saving AM Radio

[BruceB]

Mostly government news and information services, such as the BBC, Deutche Welle, RAI, RTVE and the like.

Generally, in Europe there was no commercial AM broadcasting ever except in a couple of places like Monaco and Andorra as well as Spain and Portugal. Elsewhere, it was government run with few and only more recent exceptions, using high power (100 kw to 1 megawatt) transmitters covering wide areas... or strings of little local low power ones all on the same channel to fill in bad reception areas.

AM also does very well in several other sectors in the US: religion and ethnic programming. It is not just conservative talk.

And don't forget sports talk.There's a ton of them in Ohio on AM.

 

[Kelly A]

Make all AMs IBOC (through incentives -- to those stations that wanted it; obviously, some can't really install HD because of their antenna systems) mandate HD radios in every car with a soundsystem. Promote HD AM, IBOC as well as MA3, through government incentives.

But hold the phone. What would be the benefit of mandating HD hybrid mode for AM? Sure, the quality is noticeably better than mono analog AM, but that's assuming someone has in-vehicle entertainment that includes HD radio. Those come in generally higher-level systems and newer vehicles. If you're talking about ethnic minorities or immigrants benefitting from AM-HD or even full on MA3 digital AM, then I doubt your average listener to that sort of programming would have access to an HD radio. Sure there are still desk and portable radios that come with HD capabilities, but they're not cheap, and there would be zero benefit to members of the listening public that would necessitate some sort form of government intervention.

The AM Revitalization scheme seems to have worked out well, though. Eventually the government will probably allow the AM stations to switch off the MW transmitters and remain on FM.

And put them where? In the majority of cases, AMs with FM translators don't come close to duplicating the theoretical coverage of the AM station. There's already not enough space on the FM band for more full-class stations, and since consumers stopped buying radios years ago, opening up another chunk of VHF spectrum would mean some poor sucker would be stuck on an island hoping listeners will buy new radios again and find them. Not a good business model.
FM translators for AM stations were like handing someone a set of Walmart water wings, then dumping them in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and wishing them good luck. Ultimately it's better than nothing, but not much.

 

[RadioGuy1864]

FM translators for AM stations were like handing someone a set of Walmart water wings, then dumping them in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and wishing them good luck. Ultimately it's better than nothing, but not much.

Agreed for most larger markets, unless you have several translators you cannot cover the market. But in smaller markets, if you can get the translator high enough, you can get pretty much all the coverage you need with it. Those stations would benefit from being able to stop maintaining the AM, sell the tower land if it's valuable, and continue broadcasting on the FM.

 

[Kelly A]

Agreed for most larger markets, unless you have several translators you cannot cover the market. But in smaller markets, if you can get the translator high enough, you can get pretty much all the coverage you need with it. Those stations would benefit from being able to stop maintaining the AM, sell the tower land if it's valuable, and continue broadcasting on the FM.

But the government can't make exceptions for market size or population count. You don't think Audacy would have a right to scream bloody murder if smaller stations received the full-class status for an FM and could turn off the AM in Peanutwad Kentucky but not for Lexington? It doesn't work that way.

 

[SCMcKinney]

NARBA made minor adjustments in frequency of stations on the higher 3/4 of the dial. It did not move allocations or classes, it just shuffled the cards a bit.

To raise power would require eliminating night skywave protection, reducing daytime protection, and shutting down about 2/3 of all AMs to be able to do that.

It would also require nearly all stations to build improved or changed transmitter sites, something very few AMs will do.

The only partial solution is to make the AM translators permanent and let those linked AMs turn in the AM license. The rest of the AM will linger on until there is no more revenue.

AM can not be saved.

To raise power would require eliminating night skywave protection, reducing daytime protection,

I sometimes wonder if the DAYTIME protections aren't a bit of Engineering "in theory" limitations that in the real world won't make a bit of difference to protected stations. For instance, I believe it has often been stated that KABC is a no hoper because of the tower being located where it is, and the potential audience for the programming being where they are. Assuming that a power increase using the existing plant and tower is physically and simply possible, I would bet engineers could be pretty precise in what amount of power increase would be needed to allow 790 to give a city grade signal to all of Los Angeles County. I would also bet any increase would not be any daytime interference to San Diego, Fresno, Las Vegas, or northern coastal California. Since the point of this thread is what could the FCC do to 'save AM radio' why not try for an experimental period of time and allow for public comment? I bet there won't be any complaint, partly because AM listening is now so small. But such an idea could make for a viable business that could seek to put better programming on that people might listen to.

Other examples: WBWD or WSNR in New York or WFOM in Atlanta. Power increases or frequency moves should not aim to take over the world (or state), but enough to allow for a viable business.

As I suggested in another thread, AM listening doesn't need to be via a radio anymore, but it does need to have a viable footprint and 'presence' in a market to be able to attract advertisers. The AM listening will be via a well promoted internet (smartphone) App. But without a viable 'address' on the radio dial, any App is otherwise just another internet speck that advertisers will be indifferent to.

partial solution is to make the AM translators permanent and let those linked AMs turn in the AM license

The well promoted App idea noted above could be accomplished with the FM translator as the 'address' on the local radio dial. But a lot of those translators really ARE tiny. Many times in my travels, I find the translator fades out fast, and the AM home is actually easier to listen to.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Maybe they survive on donations? If you're an expat in Holland, you probably have money, because from what I've read, the Netherlands is an extremely expensive place to live.

Radio Brainport is based in the High Tech Campus (it is named in English, not in Dutch), a former Philips research facility on the south side of Eindhoven that has since been repurposed as an office park for tech companies and other R&D. As for pay: the tech company where I was a CISO had a facility in the High Tech Campus. I saw the salary scales for that location and they were lower than you might think. But those high Dutch income and wealth taxes also pay for social services that, in the U.S., individuals are expected to cover for themselves. So comparisons are surprisingly difficult.

 

[fybush]

I sometimes wonder if the DAYTIME protections aren't a bit of Engineering "in theory" limitations that in the real world won't make a bit of difference to protected stations. For instance, I believe it has often been stated that KABC is a no hoper because of the tower being located where it is, and the potential audience for the programming being where they are. Assuming that a power increase using the existing plant and tower is physically and simply possible, I would bet engineers could be pretty precise in what amount of power increase would be needed to allow 790 to give a city grade signal to all of Los Angeles County. I would also bet any increase would not be any daytime interference to San Diego, Fresno, Las Vegas, or northern coastal California. Since the point of this thread is what could the FCC do to 'save AM radio' why not try for an experimental period of time and allow for public comment? I bet there won't be any complaint, partly because AM listening is now so small. But such an idea could make for a viable business that could seek to put better programming on that people might listen to.

Other examples: WBWD or WSNR in New York or WFOM in Atlanta. Power increases or frequency moves should not aim to take over the world (or state), but enough to allow for a viable business.

As I suggested in another thread, AM listening doesn't need to be via a radio anymore, but it does need to have a viable footprint and 'presence' in a market to be able to attract advertisers. The AM listening will be via a well promoted internet (smartphone) App. But without a viable 'address' on the radio dial, any App is otherwise just another internet speck that advertisers will be indifferent to.



The well promoted App idea noted above could be accomplished with the FM translator as the 'address' on the local radio dial. But a lot of those translators really ARE tiny. Many times in my travels, I find the translator fades out fast, and the AM home is actually easier to listen to.

Barring a complete revision of FCC rules, 73.24 makes what you're suggesting impossible. The engineers were already precise as to how much power KABC could run from its new site without causing daytime contour overlap with Fresno, Las Vegas and 800 in Tijuana.

You can certainly make a case that those overlap standards no longer make sense in 2024, and you can make a case that the conductivity maps used to calculate those contours need to be redrawn.

But that's a massive rule change that would bring lots of pushback with it.

 

[Kelly A]

The AM listening will be via a well promoted internet (smartphone) App.

Then wouldn't that be considered a stream rather than AM?

The well promoted App idea noted above could be accomplished with the FM translator as the 'address' on the local radio dial. But a lot of those translators really ARE tiny. Many times in my travels, I find the translator fades out fast, and the AM home is actually easier to listen to.

Another thing one needs to consider is the general age of the average AM listener as it relates to programming. Statistics show that the audience generally comprises 'Baby Boomers' over 60. Many seniors don't use apps on their phones. That means, and depending on whether the stalwarts of AM programming appeal to primarily white males over 60, it's safe to assume AM might have another limited twenty years left in it before the audience literally dies off.

 

[Ed Nielson]

Treat it like CB: walk away, let it become the wild west. Let anyone who can fire up a transmitter do what they will.

I believe in Greece as well as other European countires, that is just about what has happened to the AM band. There may or may not still be the official state-run outlets, but they all simulcast on FM anyway. And I'm thinking it's probably a safe bet to say that this is the situation in many other countries.

 

[Ed Nielson]

As for western Europe: AM is gone from France. Mediumwave is gone altogether; the Allouis longwave station at 162 is still on the air with carrier only because it's the official time standard for France. (Maybe RMC at 216 is still on the air; I did hear it last year when I was over there.) I believe mediumwave is also gone from Germany and Belgium. The Netherlands cleared the FM AM dial and is allowing low-power AM operations (<100 watts). That hasn't been a rousing success. Denmark got rid of mediumwave years ago. Luxembourg had digital transmissions at 1440; I haven't been in the Low Countries this year so far (plans for a trip are in abeyance due to my bad foot). Mediumwave seems to be entrenched in Spain, but I wonder how many listeners those stations really have. I don't know about Italy or Portugal.

I thought all of the French LW's were gone. As you mentioned, Allouis is now just a time signal, but Europe 1 (183) and RTL (234) being the last to go about just over a year ago.

 

[kfbkfb]

Saving AM broadcasting - set the AM transmitter power to the highest possible to have an omni signal of this one power day and night, get rid of the directional tower hardware (and the FM translators) and promote, promote, promote the stream of the AM station.

Develop an app and an associated ultra low data rate mono voice grade codec so that cheapskates like me with a Consumer Cellular plan with the lowest data/month can stream the AM station stream a lot during a month without using up their data allotment.


Kirk Bayne

 

[JJSPC]

The well promoted App idea noted above could be accomplished with the FM translator as the 'address' on the local radio dial. But a lot of those translators really ARE tiny. Many times in my travels, I find the translator fades out fast, and the AM home is actually easier to listen to.

While the AM's in a lot of areas do have greater range, does the average listener even know there IS an AM when in many cases of these simulcasts the AM frequency isn't even identified? And even if the station does promote both the FM and AM, I gotta believe it's mostly us radio geeks who would be willing to switch over to the AM, especially for a music format.

 

[Hyrum]

I've read all these posts about trying to make something obsolete relevant again. You can't. You can not raise AM power levels for all the reasons discussed. Everything done here will have an effect o something there. Let it die. That's something for the marketplace to take care of (WOWO-WLIB). One recent mention here was KABC which can't cover its market from the current transmitter location. Urban sprawl and decaying AM signals cause similar issues many places. Why has KABC not spent the money to buy a high powered FM if their program is relevant and in demand all over Los Angeles? The great AM stations that offer something a large audience wants will find a way to reach the audience. The garbage that most (not all, but honestly, most) group owned stations pour out to static and electronic noise filled airwaves is simply not worth the electricity that was used to get it to the 19 people still listening. FM translators just make more noise on that overcrowded band.
No one is broadcasting "must hear" radio. If they were, people would seek it out. Everything I've read hear has been a desire to preserve a lot of crap on the AM band because "it's always been there and should always be". It shouldn't.

 

[Kelly A]

Saving AM broadcasting - set the AM transmitter power to the highest possible to have an omni signal of this one power day and night, get rid of the directional tower hardware (and the FM translators) and promote, promote, promote the stream of the AM station.

And then have stations stomping all over each other during daily or hourly atmospheric changes? Oh, yeah that would be a good idea...not.

Develop an app and an associated ultra low data rate mono voice grade codec so that cheapskates like me with a Consumer Cellular plan with the lowest data/month can stream the AM station stream a lot during a month without using up their data allotment.

So trash the audio on a streaming app so it would sound like an AM station? Somehow I don't think that would be very popular.

 

[boombox4]

Of course, the elephant in the room is FM also has a lifetime, and its lifetime may be 15-20 years after AM's lifetime fades to black. Everything is migrating online. And where will all the 15K Radio stations go? Online? Are they really going to make enough money to keep afloat with all the saturation on every streaming platform already? How's that working out for other legacy media, like newspapers?

I doubt that in 2055 there will be 15,000 independent commercial and public "radio" stations, whether they're on the air or on a stream, or just another channel on a streaming platform. OTA is aging out. Online is infinite saturation for screen time already. But it's where the listeners are headed.

So we can talk about "saving" AM, but really, it's like talking about "saving" OTA Radio, or just whatever we call Radio. Because streaming services, podcasts, YouTube -- that's where the future lies, and I think we all know there isn't any putting the genie back into the bottle.

Big A said last week that smart Radio companies have -- or are developing -- viable digital and streaming strategies. They'd best hone their skills. IHeart is the largest Radio streaming platform and according to one research group they only have 8% of the streaming listeners under age 35. Pandora, the third wheel after YT and Spotify, has about twice that, at around 24% I think (maybe a little lower. Spotify was 40-something %, YT was 50%~). Higher age listeners, the percentage of IHeart listening goes up a bit, but it's still way beneath Spotify, YouTube, Pandora.

Then again, maybe Nielsen has contrasting data. But the last time I looked at Nielsens and the other company (YouGov?), the data was fairly close.

 

[TheBigA]

Why has KABC not spent the money to buy a high powered FM if their program is relevant and in demand all over Los Angeles?

FYI: Cumulus (owner of KABC) once owned KLOS-FM, but sold it 5 years ago after it left bankruptcy:

Cumulus Media Sells KLOS To Meruelo Media; Swaps Bridgeport To Connoisseur For Allentown

Cumulus Media has announced two more deals. The rumored sale of Rock 95.5 KLOS Los Angeles to Meruelo Media is

radioinsight.com

They've basically exited the LA market. They still own KABC because no one will buy it. So they won't be buying an FM. It exists to provide a market clear for its syndicated talk programming. They make money leasing out the signal for college sports,

 

[TheBigA]

IHeart is the largest Radio streaming platform and according to one research group they only have 8% of the streaming listeners under age 35. Pandora, the third wheel after YT and Spotify, has about twice that, at around 24% I think (maybe a little lower.

iHeart and Pandora are in two very different businesses, even though they each use the internet. Same with Spotify and YouTube. They are not comparable. Just as Pandora and Sirius are two very different businesses owned by the same company.

 

[TheBigA]

You can't allow a corrupt government to demand that some stations go away to allow others to raise power.

You keep talking about "a corrupt government." The laws governing broadcasting are very clear in terms of what the government can do (corrupt or otherwise). Broadcasting in this country is a public-private partnership. Private companies own these licenses that are regulated by the government. The government can't "demand stations go away." The spectrum itself is overseen by an international body.

 

[CTListener]

You keep talking about "a corrupt government." The laws governing broadcasting are very clear in terms of what the government can do (corrupt or otherwise). Broadcasting in this country is a public-private partnership. Private companies own these licenses that are regulated by the government. The government can't "demand stations go away." The spectrum itself is overseen by an international body.

Thanks for writing that. I agree with some of what Hyrum has posted, but that tired "corrupt government" dog whistle he insists in inserting in every post is a turn-off.

 

[Hyrum]

You keep talking about "a corrupt government." The laws governing broadcasting are very clear in terms of what the government can do (corrupt or otherwise). Broadcasting in this country is a public-private partnership. Private companies own these licenses that are regulated by the government. The government can't "demand stations go away." The spectrum itself is overseen by an international body.

I understand that. I was responding to the number of people who want stations to increase power and some to be eliminated. I also in one comment looked at an example of a private company raising power of one station by lowering that of another. (WOWO/WLIB) I stand by my description of the government.