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Rock 92.9 To Bloomberg

BTW, contrary to your premise which is very understandable due to your perspective, there are actually literally millions of NEW ads and advertisers now.

I agree with that. The problem is they pay a whole lot less per ad than what would be needed for broadcast.

So in order to meet budget, radio would need to run more spots. Not what the audience wants to hear.

Digital ads are one-to-one. Broadcast are one to many.
 
I agree with that. The problem is they pay a whole lot less per ad than what would be needed for broadcast.

So in order to meet budget, radio would need to run more spots. Not what the audience wants to hear.

Digital ads are one-to-one. Broadcast are one to many.
Absolutely. And when I hear broadcasters here blame the economy, I just laugh. This must have been what it was like at buggy whip manufacturers a century ago. Bad economy. The economy is absolutely rocking..growing 5% nominally, $28.5 Trillion GDP, all time high employee pay and total employment. The issues with broadcast TV and Radio are Secular not cyclical. There’s not an economy strong enough to resurrect the industries as they operate now. All of the major broadcast groups have signaled this btw and permanently written down the values of their properties. It will be very interesting to see how these industries reinvent themselves. Content REMAINS king—great formats and great personalities are hugely valuable. Yet radio is in crisis.
 
I think that’s one reason, but it’s not near the top one. BROADcasting by definition is untargeted.

While broadcasting does reach a broad range of people, hence the name, it's definitely targeted. All the research done for radio is done to make sure the audience the advertisers want listen to the station.

Advertisers must pay to reach thousands of people they neither need nor want.

While advertisers will inevitably reach people they neither need nor want, they know how many people they want that they're reaching. That information helps them determine if it's a good buy. If you want to see a truly untargeted form of media that charges a fortune to reach people the advertisers don't want, look at the newspaper. We know what's happening to them. It's really more of a case of look at the newspaper if you still have one.

It’s an inefficient method compared to what, say, Facebook can offer. And BTW, contrary to your premise which is very understandable due to your perspective, there are actually literally millions of NEW ads and advertisers now. That didn’t advertise electronically just 20 years ago due to this far more efficient marketing. Broadcast advertising IS hugely beneficial for advertisers seeking to pay for and reach MASS BROADcasting audiences. That is a minority of all businesses, the overwhelming majority of which are SMALL.

I agree with some of your points here. Yes, Facebook and other online media can offer one to one marketing at a cheap price. How often, though, do you login to Facebook and see ads for small businesses halfway across the country that have no online order capability? I see ads for restaurants on the other side of the country that I will never visit at least a handful of times a week. I will also point out that a large number of advertisers you see on Facebook are the bigger businesses that don't use radio or use it sparingly. I see tons of Walmart advertising online. The only time I hear Walmart ads on the radio is when I'm listening online, and it's usually a preroll ad with video when I start the stream. Big retail uses radio sparingly if it uses it at all.

I also agree with you that the smallest of small businesses are not radio's target advertisers. Restaurants and nightclubs have always had a reputation for being no pays. Radio doesn't go after those businesses for a reason. Maybe it has evolved over the years, but, in my experience with radio, its favorite customers are small to mid-sized retail. Those are the exact places that have been contracting right along with radio over the last 40+ years. The big box retailers put most of them out of business in the 80's, and online retail has been shutting many of the rest of them down over the last 10 years or so. There's a term for what we've been seeing over the last 15-20 years. It's called "disintermediation," and radio's business model has always centered around having intermediaries.

Absolutely. And when I hear broadcasters here blame the economy, I just laugh. This must have been what it was like at buggy whip manufacturers a century ago. Bad economy. The economy is absolutely rocking..growing 5% nominally, $28.5 Trillion GDP, all time high employee pay and total employment. The issues with broadcast TV and Radio are Secular not cyclical. There’s not an economy strong enough to resurrect the industries as they operate now. All of the major broadcast groups have signaled this btw and permanently written down the values of their properties. It will be very interesting to see how these industries reinvent themselves. Content REMAINS king—great formats and great personalities are hugely valuable. Yet radio is in crisis.

I'm not convinced that radio is in a death spiral. In some form or another, it will be around for a long time. It just might not be the traditional AM/FM broadcasting we've had for the last 100 years or so. If radio evolves to more of a one-on-one medium, that will likely mean a lot more people lose their jobs, or at least lose their guaranteed paychecks. The last two years or so have been among the best two years we've seen economically since the end of WWII. Radio's problem is an evolving economy, and it may not be one that supports traditional AM/FM indefinitely. My opinion is still that traditional radio is positioned a lot better for the future than TV, which is too dependent on sports to get those high retrans fees from cable and satellite providers. If, however, you work in the industry and think it is in a death spiral, the time to get out is now, before it hits bottom. If you can't get out now, get a plan together and start it. At some point, every old technology dies. The leaders in new technology aren't always the leaders in the old one. If you'd have told me 30 years ago that online retail was going to be king by 2015, I'd have bet on Sears being the company that would perfect it. That was the company that perfected the mail order catalog to a science and would've seemed poised to do the same in the online marketplace. The idea that a company that didn't even exist yet and would be started by someone no one had ever heard of would put Sears out of business by 2020 would've seemed far-fetched and ludicrous.
 
Those people have access to a financial adviser, expert staff, and so much online news, data, and analysis, that they don't need Bloomberg radio to get the info they want or need.
Really? So you know more than the national sales folks at Bloomberg? If that's the case, why are you posting on some radio discussion board?
 
Absolutely. And when I hear broadcasters here blame the economy, I just laugh.
Really? So, the loss of station valuations from the 2008 'Great Recession' was just an illusion? How about what happened to ad revenue when the pandemic hit, and many local businesses shut down due to lack of business? That didn't effect the economy? And what about the changes in national advertising since the pandemic? Another illusion or excuse eh?
This must have been what it was like at buggy whip manufacturers a century ago. Bad economy. The economy is absolutely rocking..growing 5% nominally, $28.5 Trillion GDP, all time high employee pay and total employment.
But, do you think maybe that even with a 'rocking economy' that the advertising model may have changed which negatively effected the traditional ad model that broadcasting has relied on? Or, is that an excuse too?
Content REMAINS king—great formats and great personalities are hugely valuable. Yet radio is in crisis.
Hmmm.. so what do you consider these 'valuable personalities'? Someone with great pipes? Can talk up a vocal with precision? Reads liners with ease?
 
I for one am happy that Dave and Chuck will still be on in Boston, They discuss interesting things in the news. They do mention news in the markets they are in. When they were on in Las Vegas they did talk about local news in that market. I am guessing the same people who complain about them in Boston are the same one's that complained about Opie and Anthoney when they were on wbcn.
 
Really? So, the loss of station valuations from the 2008 'Great Recession' was just an illusion? How about what happened to ad revenue when the pandemic hit, and many local businesses shut down due to lack of business? That didn't effect the economy? And what about the changes in national advertising since the pandemic? Another illusion or excuse eh?

But, do you think maybe that even with a 'rocking economy' that the advertising model may have changed which negatively effected the traditional ad model that broadcasting has relied on? Or, is that an excuse too?

Hmmm.. so what do you consider these 'valuable personalities'? Someone with great pipes? Can talk up a vocal with precision? Reads liners with ease?
So…It’s not 2008..we’re 16 years beyond the Great Recession.

We’re not in a Pandemic, either. What’s your point??

We have 5% nominal GDP Growth, the largest economy in the history of the planet, the most people employed at the highest wages, an all time high stock market with earnings up double digits and prices up 20%….thats the real non radio world. Take a peak outside studio, it’s different out there. So the real world, contrary to your insular observation, has recovered tremendously…

And yet..through it all…the “ad recession” for radio continues in perpetuity partying like it’s 2008 national recession and Pandemic forever…large radio groups go in and out of bankruptcy as often as I go in and out of my bathroom, and TV/Radio operators write down the value of their assets by the $Billions signaling PERMANENT structural decline.
This is what radio station OWNERS are saying in legal terms about what they OWN. Their words.

I don’t get your point, this is structural.
 
And yet..through it all…the “ad recession” for radio continues in perpetuity partying like it’s 2008 national recession and Pandemic forever

The ad recession isn't affecting just radio. It's affecting any media that is ad supported. Even Spotify.

Tech companies that also rely heavily on advertising are undergoing layoffs too. Amazon, Google, Meta and Microsoft have announced more than 50,000 job cuts combined in just the past few months. Yet the tech and media industries' prospects stand at odds with a tight labor market and low unemployment more broadly.
 
The ad recession isn't affecting just radio. It's affecting any media that is ad supported. Even Spotify.
The ad recession isn't affecting just radio. It's affecting any media that is ad supported. Even Spotify.
Really? So, the loss of station valuations from the 2008 'Great Recession' was just an illusion? How about what happened to ad revenue when the pandemic hit, and many local businesses shut down due to lack of business? That didn't effect the economy? And what about the changes in national advertising since the pandemic? Another illusion or excuse eh?

But, do you think maybe that even with a 'rocking economy' that the advertising model may have changed which negatively effected the traditional ad model that broadcasting has relied on? Or, is that an excuse too?

Hmmm.. so what do you consider these 'valuable personalities'? Someone with great pipes? Can talk up a vocal with precision? Reads liners with ease?
To answer your question about valuable personalities…Howard Stern makes $90 million per year. Ryan Seacret $75 Million a year. Sean Hannity $35 million a year. I could go on. Heck Glenn Beck still makes like $10 million.
Personalities matter.

And as for your comments about tech giant layoffs-those companies are worth $500 Billion to $1 Trillion each and went way overboard in over hiring during the Pandemic…they make $Billions in profit..profit up 50% a year. Are you really serious? Facebook is worth MANY TIMES the entire value of the entire Radio industry. And probably the TV industry combined.

I feel a bit of a reality disconnect here.
 
Absolutely. And when I hear broadcasters here blame the economy, I just laugh. This must have been what it was like at buggy whip manufacturers a century ago. Bad economy. The economy is absolutely rocking..growing 5% nominally, $28.5 Trillion GDP, all time high employee pay and total employment.
But if you read Ad Age, you can see that the ad industry is in a deep recession in almost all areas. Even the new media providers are in distress. The closing of so much local retail and its replacement with online shopping has affected all local media as well.
 
To answer your question about valuable personalities…Howard Stern makes $90 million per year. Ryan Seacret $75 Million a year. Sean Hannity $35 million a year. I could go on. Heck Glenn Beck still makes like $10 million.
Personalities matter.

Those are all NATIONAL personalities. Who in Boston makes that kind of money?

People in this thread are complaining about the lack of local personalities at WBOS.

And as for your comments about tech giant layoffs-those companies are worth $500 Billion to $1 Trillion each and went way overboard in over hiring during the Pandemic…they make $Billions in profit..profit up 50% a year. Are you really serious? Facebook is worth MANY TIMES the entire value of the entire Radio industry. And probably the TV industry combined.

The issue is ad-supported media. They are billion and trillion dollar tech companies, but they also have various streaming businesses. Those parts of those companies aren't as lucrative as the hardware side. The paragraph I quoted addressed the fact that ad losses are why they're laying off staff. I can link you similar articles about Netflix, Disney, and even NPR. Every media company that depends on advertising has been forced to lay off staff and cut expenses.

This article says ad budgets have been cut:



Growth in global ad spending is going to be slower next year than originally anticipated, according to two new forecasts, a troubling sign for media and tech firms that rely on advertising to fuel their businesses.

Why it matters: Much of the slowdown is driven by economic uncertainty, rather than true economic indicators that would cause an advertising recession.
 
But if you read Ad Age, you can see that the ad industry is in a deep recession in almost all areas. Even the new media providers are in distress. The closing of so much local retail and its replacement with online shopping has affected all local media as well.
It is, agree. As Amazon, Walmart, and Costco grab ever larger slices of the retail pie, retailers are gett8ng ever smaller pieces of the pie. And that hits advertising. Point is-the pie is large. And yes, new media is now feeling stress that traditional media has felt, honestly, this entire millennium. I would argue that new Media’s issues are more cyclical, while traditional media’s issues are more structural. And I’d say CEO’s and owners of both have confirmed such. Will be interesting how this all plays out. I’m a firm believer in traditional media btw. It will adapt and take pages from new media in distribution and production and become “one”. It’s just a messy from here..to there.
 
Those are all NATIONAL personalities. Who in Boston makes that kind of money?

People in this thread are complaining about the lack of local personalities at WBOS.



The issue is ad-supported media. They are billion and trillion dollar tech companies, but they also have various streaming businesses. Those parts of those companies aren't as lucrative as the hardware side. The paragraph I quoted addressed the fact that ad losses are why they're laying off staff. I can link you similar articles about Netflix, Disney, and even NPR. Every media company that depends on advertising has been forced to lay off staff and cut expenses.

This article says ad budgets have been cut:


Ok. Michael Felger. Who owns the market.

There are others too.
And when well known personalities have left, numbers dropped.

Funny, listeners actually don’t want depersonalized Pandora with 6 minute ad block interruptions. That doesn’t work so well anymore.
 
To answer your question about valuable personalities…Howard Stern makes $90 million per year. Ryan Seacret $75 Million a year. Sean Hannity $35 million a year. I could go on. Heck Glenn Beck still makes like $10 million.
Personalities matter.
Those are a handful of personalities, most syndicated and in the case of Howard, subscription. There are a lot more radio stations in the country that don't involve that list of talent. So, what do all the other radio stations do in markets that can't afford nor justify hiring multi million dollar talent?
And as for your comments about tech giant layoffs-those companies are worth $500 Billion to $1 Trillion each and went way overboard in over hiring during the Pandemic…they make $Billions in profit..profit up 50% a year. Are you really serious? Facebook is worth MANY TIMES the entire value of the entire Radio industry. And probably the TV industry combined.
So what does any of that have to do with traditional radio and your assertions that the changes in advertising aren't a product of the economy?
I feel a bit of a reality disconnect here.
I agree, you could very well be suffering from that. ;)
 
OK, now you’re being silly. You wanted a local personality I gave it to you-I gave you other personalities. Your guess on Felger’s pay shows more than a disconnect from any reality. My bad I thought you were serious.

I'm not being silly. You listed a bunch of national personalities who make millions. My point is nobody in Boston makes that.

This thread is about local Boston radio. Nobody in Boston makes that kind of money because no local station bills that kind of money. It's two very different things. Try and stick to the topic. BOSTON radio.

You still haven't addressed the issue with advertising. That's why Beasley is cutting staff.
 
I'm not being silly. You listed a bunch of national personalities who make millions. My point is nobody in Boston makes that.

This thread is about local Boston radio. Nobody in Boston makes that kind of money because no local station bills that kind of money. It's two very different things. Try and stick to the topic. BOSTON radio.

You still haven't addressed the issue with advertising. That's why Beasley is cutting staff.
You’re all over the place .

Your $100,000 Felger comment confirms complete detachment from reality. And you just keep throwing mud up against the wall after I refute each NEW new issue you raise—as you’re shot down one by one.

Advice: . Learn just a little about economics, radio industry balance sheets, crushing debt loads, and cyclical softness versus secular decline. It’s a little work but it’ll educate you. It’ll answer your questions one by one. It’ll all make perfect sense, I can’t walk you through the whole thing.
 
Bloomberg is the perfect format in 2024 since radio has become about as exciting as discussing insurance these days. There's no passion at all for the programming or talent anymore. It's all money, money, money and nothing else. The product just seems like a nuisance to both the people running the businesses and the observers on this site. Does anyone care about actual entertainment anymore? @BRNout summed it up pretty well, I think.
Spot on. The industry is tired and sitting on its creative laurels—and blaming everyone & everything else for its secular decline.

This makes me angry and I apologize for this. Because I was involved with a Boston station 40 years ago when we won the market from an unbeatable WBZ powerhouse— introduced emerging concepts and formats, the integration of news and entertainment & personalities—radio EVOLVED by REINVENTING itself. It became cutting edge, fun, creative, and successful. I know what radio CAN be: THEATER of the mind. Fantastic. It was highly competitive with new ideas. 1950 then—was a thousand years ago,

I listen to radio today. FOURTY years later. It’s the same thing! It’s the same format construction, the same product we collectively created in the 1970s and 1980s. While the rest of the world advanced more than the previous 300 years in that time—radio just tweaked its old thing. If you went to sleep in 1995 and woke up today…you’d hear the VERY same thing. But With Taylor Swift. And audio tracked DJs. Yawn!

Waiting for creative geniuses to emerge. Please. My hunch. And I have no idea—but hyper local seems a direction. Take the Clear Channel one-size-fits-a-country extreme that everyone else has copied go the opposite: become relevant in COMMUNITIES. Maybe?

There’s something very depressing about board ops openly wondering why no one buys ads on their station anymore because the 1970s-on-automation product they’re overseeing isn’t working because of the economy which is the strongest in the history of the world —is to blame. Not their tired sounding radio station in a new media world.
 
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