Do kids really like oldies?

[K.M. Richards]

It's a community station so local advertisers are quick to buy.

That -- and that alone -- is the only thing keeping many stations in unrated markets afloat. The problem is that each new generation is more likely than the previous ones to eschew terrestrial radio. To them, it's entirely about what they can hear via their phones. The audience is still dwindling and that will still be the deciding factor.

Chimp, have you noticed that when long-time local businesses don't have a family member to keep them going, they often do not get a high enough offer from an outside party -- even a local one that logically would have a motivation to stay in business -- and end up closing their doors with no replacement in sight other than bigger stores that had already taken away most of the regular patronage?

THAT is what is happening to the community stations. They are not going to be the salvation of the format.

 

[Y2kTheNewOldies]

So how do we classify by era. Lumping 40s and 80s as oldie is a huge leap.

1990's would have to be included now as oldies given that these songs are either approaching or already over 30 years old. My examples are here and yes I didn't consider that they are really oldies but they are by today's format.

 

[vchimpanzee]

And a huge chunk of Oldies stations are running Scott Shannon's format, which will likely go away as soon as he tires of doing it. (He doesn't need the money, so it's a question of personal satisfaction vs. operational and legal headaches.) Add to all this that the audience is literally dying off, one listener at a time, and you are going to see a lot more Oldies stations bite the dust ... probably literally as towers fall on real estate about to be redeveloped.

Good Time Oldies is what I was hearing in my area, but there is a more contemporary sounding format on the local station.

A few stations have something called Pure Oldies.

 

[K.M. Richards]

A few stations have something called Pure Oldies.

That appears to be the branding Saga Communications uses for its stations in the format. I cannot determine if it is only branding or if all stations share a playlist, etc. generated at a central facility.

Nevertheless, it doesn't matter what they call it ... the format is dying.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

That appears to be the branding Saga Communications uses for its stations in the format. I cannot determine if it is only branding or if all stations share a playlist, etc. generated at a central facility.

Nevertheless, it doesn't matter what they call it ... the format is dying.

Same playlist. I just looked at the pure oldies in milwaukee and mitchell, sd.... same exact playlist

 

[vchimpanzee]

1990's would have to be included now as oldies given that these songs are either approaching or already over 30 years old. My examples are here and yes I didn't consider that they are really oldies but they are by today's format.

Regardless, these are songs that are as bad as today's hits and don't count when some of us are looking for an alternative.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I know it won't make a difference, but the audience on "Beat Shazam" seems to like the Rat Pack and a number of the 60s tunes.

And the DJ on the online only standards station I listen to a lot said a 70-year-old recording sounded "fresh as a daisy".

 

[davideduardo]

And the DJ on the online only standards station I listen to a lot said a 70-year-old recording sounded "fresh as a daisy".

Yes, a 70-year-old daisy.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Same playlist. I just looked at the pure oldies in milwaukee and mitchell, sd.... same exact playlist

Thanks, Paul. So as soon as Saga finds something that is more saleable, *poof* goes the Pure Oldies. On all the stations.

 

[K.M. Richards]

No one caught my typos, so I am going to correct them here for the record:

That lasted about the same amount of time as KODJ (until September 10, 1993) when they went hit-oriented Classic Rock as "Arrow 93" (which, BTW, took them immediately from #18 to #3 in the 12+ Arbtitrons) and then morphed into today's "Jack" format a little over a decade later, on St. Patrick's Day 1995.

The launch of Jack was on March 17, 2005.

Which changes the immediately following statement. Obviously, it was a 16-year transition.

So 93.1 went from a traditional Oldies format through a gradual moving forward to a format heavy on modern rock in the space of (literally) only six years.

Still ... 50s/60s oldies after the second demise of "mellow rock" KNX-FM in 1989 to 60s/70s after only two years should be ample proof that the Oldies format was already heading downhill three decades earlier. CBS certainly was big enough to keep "Goodtime Oldies" alive if they saw any potential for it. Instead, they moved forward in time as "CBS-FM" and then to classic rock hits "Arrow" ... all in a mere 4½ years after the original flip.

And Jack has now lasted 18½ years, which is more than half as long as the entirety of all of its well-remembered predecessors: (KNX-FM/Hitradio 93/KNX-FM #2/Goodtime Oldies/CBS-FM/Arrow). The first KNX-FM incarnation only lasted ten.

Still think Oldies as a format will survive?

That the format is still limping along on a couple hundred stations nationwide some 35 years after KODJ is remarkable, actually. But please do not misconstrue that statement as meaning I think it's going to last very much longer; if anything, that "holding on" has provided ample evidence of its decline in audience even as the remaining listeners age out, period.

 

[Syfy]

Radio Disney used to include short classic oldies as a novelty for kids. Of course, no kids actually listened to RD, so I guess that's an answer to the question right there.

Yeah then why did they have consistent callers throughout the entire daytime programming block and in the early years of radio disney had huge listership with kids and teenagers..... It wasnt until the end of radio disney and i mean very end that the listenership began to decline.

 

[davideduardo]

Yeah then why did they have consistent callers throughout the entire daytime programming block and in the early years of radio disney had huge listership with kids and teenagers..... It wasnt until the end of radio disney and i mean very end that the listenership began to decline.

Source?

We had ample 12+ listening estimates going back many, many decades. And with the PPM, we also has 6-11 children. In neither system did we see significant listening by either kids or teens. In most cases and most markets, the stations did not even show in the ratings.

They were lucky to get a 0.1 share. They had nothing even approaching "huge".

Unfortunately, I mentioned at an Hispanic Broadcasting meeting that I thought Radio Disney did not have much listening. I was asked to attend a number of their remotes in the LA area. What I found was a bunch of Disney staff trying to get adults with kids to come to their booth for a prize so that they could take photos. They did not have much success, as no Disney characters were there... just some staff members in Radio Disney T-shirts.

 

[Syfy]

Source?

We had ample 12+ listening estimates going back many, many decades. And with the PPM, we also has 6-11 children. In neither system did we see significant listening by either kids or teens. In most cases and most markets, the stations did not even show in the ratings.

They were lucky to get a 0.1 share. They had nothing even approaching "huge".

Unfortunately, I mentioned at an Hispanic Broadcasting meeting that I thought Radio Disney did not have much listening. I was asked to attend a number of their remotes in the LA area. What I found was a bunch of Disney staff trying to get adults with kids to come to their booth for a prize so that they could take photos. They did not have much success, as no Disney characters were there... just some staff members in Radio Disney T-shirts.

Ok but it was syndicated so I’m assuming your referring to the Los Angeles 1110 station share….. which isn’t a reflection of the operation as a whole.

 

[Kelly A]

Yeah then why did they have consistent callers throughout the entire daytime programming block and in the early years of radio disney had huge listership with kids and teenagers..... It wasnt until the end of radio disney and i mean very end that the listenership began to decline.

I was involved to differing degrees from beginning to end and had an insider perspective on what was going on behind the scenes.
Regarding the assumption that callers equal high numbers of listeners. That's an illusion. Many stations, including RD as a network, stockpiled calls and replayed them as needed. Sure, they got calls at the beginning due to a ton of promotion, but that quickly disappeared when the promotion ended and AM listening declined.

 

[Syfy]

I was involved to differing degrees from beginning to end and had an insider perspective on what was going on behind the scenes.
Regarding the assumption that callers equal high numbers of listeners. That's an illusion. Many stations, including RD as a network, stockpiled calls and replayed them as needed. Sure, they got calls at the beginning due to a ton of promotion, but that quickly disappeared when the promotion ended and AM listening declined.

If people weren’t listening then why would Disney put so much money into it for over 20 years?

 

[PTBoardOp93]

If people weren’t listening then why would Disney put so much money into it for over 20 years?

People were listening. A 0.1 share in Los Angeles is still several thousand people. Add in NY, Boston, etc, and you have plenty of audience to get a few calls per hour from.

Radio Disney was narrowly targeted at the parents of kids from roughly Kindergarten to 5th grade. As such, the kids weren't part of the ratings universe until the PPM arrived near the end of Radio Disney's life.

As such, the network was not designed to get massive ratings. It was designed to be a promotions vehicle for Disney Records, with artists like Hillary Duff and Miley Cyrus.

 

[yeoldeschool]

And Jack has now lasted 18½ years, which is more than half as long as the entirety of all of its well-remembered predecessors: (KNX-FM/Hitradio 93/KNX-FM #2/Goodtime Oldies/CBS-FM/Arrow). The first KNX-FM incarnation only lasted ten.

Maybe that (18½ years) is because Jack doesn't strictly count as a format, but as a mascot for a metaformat that gives it the pretext/cover for perpetually morphing along at a glacial pace over time from "whatever" into "whatever?" If Jack were a cellular protocol, I would call it LTE.

That the format is still limping along on a couple hundred stations nationwide some 35 years after KODJ is remarkable, actually.

Can we trade lists? Here's the oldies portion of my winamp.bm8 file (plain text). I would especially be interested in the remnant you mentioned in post #39 that still play '50s in addition to just '60s.

By the way, your trip down memory lane in post #39 was fantastic. KODJ, KRTH, "CBS-FM", and "Arrow" were my presets on top of KTWV, KROQ, and KPWR in my youth. I wish there were some lengthy, untelescoped airchecks of 93.1 during its KODJ, CBS-FM, and early (rather than later) "Arrow" periods floating around.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Maybe that (18½ years) is because Jack doesn't strictly count as a format, but as a mascot for a metaformat that gives it the pretext/cover for perpetually morphing along at a glacial pace over time from "whatever" into "whatever?" If Jack were a cellular protocol, I would call it LTE.

I agree in principle with that. As David has pointed out several times in different threads on the subject, the industry designator "Adult Hits" came about because there was no other way to classify Jack and Jack-like stations who had no consistent focus across multiple markets.

Can we trade lists? Here's the oldies portion of my winamp.bm8 file (plain text). I would especially be interested in the remnant you mentioned in post #39 that still play '50s in addition to just '60s.

I don't keep a list. My MP3 library simply exists in one of those small-profile USB plugs, it is always in my car, and the radio performs the shuffling. Since I have made no significant additions to it in over five years, I don't really need a list to know if I have a specific title or not.

By the way, your trip down memory lane in post #39 was fantastic. KODJ, KRTH, "CBS-FM", and "Arrow" were my presets on top of KTWV, KROQ, and KPWR in my youth. I wish there were some lengthy, untelescoped airchecks of 93.1 during its KODJ, CBS-FM, and early (rather than later) "Arrow" periods floating around.

If I had a nickel for everytime someone has posted that somewhere, especially at ReelRadio, where I have a "collection" ... 🤑

 

[Kelly A]

If people weren’t listening then why would Disney put so much money into it for over 20 years?

We've been over the explanation many times on this board, but here we go again:

Radio Disney was a small part of Disney's out of park promotions department leftover from the former loose radio division Shamrock Broadcasting. In the beginning, local station GM's were tasked with covering individual local station expenses through local ad sales. As is today, not many advertisers were interested in reaching a really young audience, and research showed that parents weren't listening either, so local sales never even left the dock.
As with any struggling operation, RD started laying off local staff and shedding brick and mortar studio/office leases, feeding transmitter sites via satellite. RD ran on autopilot for a few more years until a budget audit at Mouse HQ finally noticed that nobody was listening and zero promotion benefits could be attributed to RD. That's when the order was given to start looking for buyers of the mostly derelict RD AM stations, which took a while because, well...AM stations.

 

[K.M. Richards]

In other words ... "gee, we miscalculated how popular we thought this would be."

I bet Walt would have vetoed the idea before it could start.