1090 XEPRS Has Gone Back to Oldies Plus Wolfman - L.A. Daily News

[Mike Stark]

There are bean counters at Sirius too. There are bean counters at Spotify. There are bean counters at the record labels. I know because I talk with all of them. And there's innovation happening in broadcasting, although you may not notice it. Don't kid yourself. It's all about making money. Even the artists want to make money. I don't blame anything. It's nobody's "fault." Things happen. The times changed in the 1920s. They changed again in the 1940s. They changed again in the 1960s. Then they really started to change in the 1980s. The year was 1988, when the great schism between radio & records happened. That was the year when many of the founding companies of radio left the industry. Then came the 90s and the internet.

So sure, the times have changed, but that's not why young people aren't listening to radio. They're not looking for innovation or creativity. They're looking to MAKE creativity on their own. They are the DO generation. You can play all the creative radio you love, and they'll be bored. Because they have the tools to do radio themselves. In the old days, the cost of doing radio was prohibitive. You needed studios and expensive equipment and towers and transmitters. Now you don't need any of that. You can do everything in your laptop and deliver it straight to people. Same thing with record labels. They used to make music for radio airplay. That was their only way to reach people. They signed a few artists because radio only played a few artists. Then the internet came, and they can bypass radio completely. Record labels sign lots of artists, because they don't sell millions anymore. They sell to individual fan bases. Every artist makes a little money, and together they make enough. That may be the future of radio. We'll see,

An absolutely fair analysis! .....but we can dream!

m

 

[TheBigA]

An absolutely fair analysis! .....but we can dream!

Don't dream. DO!

 

[Mike Stark]

Don't dream. DO!

Not that much time left, but I still "do" and enjoy doing it. I even dabble in those areas where the kids dabble, but you're right, they do it better.

m

 

[davideduardo]

My wife and I were talking on a long drive how amazing it is that you can listen to any song or album you want, when you want in today's world. But that didn't kill radio. The reason music radio is failing us is that you get the same overly research records, in high rotation

There is no such thing as being "overly researched". Stations ask listeners which songs they like to hear the most. They also find out which they don't want to hear at all. And everything in between.

So, whether a station does research twice a year or just once a year or even less due to the high cost, all they are doing is asking listeners what they want to hear and how often. They, the listers, tell stations what to play.

 

[radiofan2023]

So sure, the times have changed, but that's not why young people aren't listening to radio. They're not looking for innovation or creativity. They're looking to MAKE creativity on their own. They are the DO generation. You can play all the creative radio you love, and they'll be bored. Because they have the tools to do radio themselves. In the old days, the cost of doing radio was prohibitive. You needed studios and expensive equipment and towers and transmitters. Now you don't need any of that. You can do everything in your laptop and deliver it straight to people. Same thing with record labels. They used to make music for radio airplay. That was their only way to reach people.

The part about not having to censor themselves is a big piece of it, both with music and what they say. It’s not just music either, there are sports podcasts I enjoy done by “amateurs” who actually dive into the stats, prepare and give insights using them, rather than just doing what I call “1980s sports talk” of giving scores, stats and schedules. I can read all those things online. I don’t need to listen to the radio to find them out.

 

[michael hagerty]

Once and for all: The station has brokered four hours per day to a former market DJ who plays Oldies from 3:00 to 5:00 in the afternoon, then Wolfman Jack tapes from 5:00 to 7:00.

All other hours still have the Spanish-language religious programming.

Which, it probably needs to be said for those who weren't there the first time around, is pretty much how XERB was during its "Glory Days".



It was always an amalgam of preachers (en Ingles in those days), horse racing and DJ shows.



The music started out as pretty raw R&B...



...but as the Wolfman became more popular, it morphed into Top 40 with more R&B than KHJ. Cowsills, Ray Stevens, The Beatles? Sure!

The only constant between 1966 and 1972 was Wolfman Jack. And even he wasn't that constant. Sometimes he was on more than once a day. Sometimes he'd start around 9 or so at night. Sometimes it wouldn't happen until 10 or even 11.

Same deal with the other jocks, too, who never lasted long.

It took years and interviews with Wolfman himself to learn what was going on. Wolf, in his alter ego of Robert Weston Smith, was leasing the station and selling time, sometimes in spots, more often in blocks, to make a profit.

If some fire-and-brimstone preacher was willing to make it worth his while to go on later in the evening and let the preacher have 9 p.m., sold. Didn't matter if the preacher wanted that timeslot for 13 weeks or just one. If the money was good, the schedule was flexible.

So, what's happening now is very much in the spirit of XERB back in the day. It was always one big, unpredictable mess.

 

[tbolt909]

There is no such thing as being "overly researched". Stations ask listeners which songs they like to hear the most. They also find out which they don't want to hear at all. And everything in between.

So, whether a station does research twice a year or just once a year or even less due to the high cost, all they are doing is asking listeners what they want to hear and how often. They, the listers, tell stations what to play.

Too simplistic. Many people don't know what they like until they've been exposed to it. Some simply follow the mob and like what is "Popular". There's a lot music that people might like if they heard it.

Some Rock stations played songs that the listeners did not select. The idea was to put out a product that would be compelling. Creating a station playlist that featured new songs, album cuts, and "hits" took effort. I know of many stations that had success with savvy programming and promotion. I'm sure you will dispute it, but it was true once. People no longer need Radio to "research" songs for them. They can find what they want on their own...

 

[michael hagerty]

Too simplistic. Many people don't know what they like until they've been exposed to it. Some simply follow the mob and like what is "Popular". There's a lot music that people might like if they heard it.

Some Rock stations played songs that the listeners did not select. The idea was to put out a product that would be compelling. Creating a station playlist that featured new songs, album cuts, and "hits" took effort. I know of many stations that had success with savvy programming and promotion. I'm sure you will dispute it, but it was true once.

Once, but a long time ago.

People no longer need Radio to "research" songs for them. They can find what they want on their own...

Which is why no one should expect radio to try to do that again.

The early album guys---the Tom Donahues, B. Mitchel Reeds and Dave Diamonds---they were tour guides. They acted that way in early Top 40, too---exposing new sounds ("Just got this in today and you HAVE to hear it!")---and when Top 40 became a consensus format, they took that approach to albums.

And it worked for a while. Until it didn't. Because, ultimately, the path to staying on the air is money. The path to money is advertising. The path to advertisers is listeners. And the path to listeners is to play more songs that more people have in common as favorites.

Diamond ran up the white flag and went back to Top 40 in 1968. Donahue died in 1975. BMR was essentially doing format album rock from 1978 until he died in 1983.

The last of the Mohicans was Jim Ladd. But truth be told, Jim was less adventurous than the others. His "explorations" were tailored to his personal tastes, and there's not a whole lot of danger, adventure or controversy in The Doors and Tom Petty. It's just that, in the context of post-1978 commercial FM radio, playing "deep cuts" from million-selling artists seemed edgy.

 

[tbolt909]

Which is why no one should expect radio to try to do that again.

The early album guys---the Tom Donahues, B. Mitchel Reeds and Dave Diamonds---they were tour guides. They acted that way in early Top 40, too---exposing new sounds ("Just got this in today and you HAVE to hear it!")---and when Top 40 became a consensus format, they took that approach to albums.

And it worked for a while. Until it didn't. Because, ultimately, the path to staying on the air is money. The path to money is advertising. The path to advertisers is listeners. And the path to listeners is to play more songs that more people have in common as favorites.

Diamond ran up the white flag and went back to Top 40 in 1968. Donahue died in 1975. BMR was essentially doing format album rock from 1978 until he died in 1983.

The last of the Mohicans was Jim Ladd. But truth be told, Jim was less adventurous than the others. His "explorations" were tailored to his personal tastes, and there's not a whole lot of danger, adventure or controversy in The Doors and Tom Petty. It's just that, in the context of post-1978 commercial FM radio, playing "deep cuts" from million-selling artists seemed edgy.

The old business model is broken. Great ratings no longer guarantees revenue. A restaurant that offers unique food and good service can still be successful. Radio doesn't have a new formula. They just roll out tired formats and the audience gets older (out of the money demos). Restaurants are happy to have customers in the 55-85 age group.

Public television gets a lot of money from seniors. That's why they still run the Woodstock programming during pledge week...☮️

 

[radiofan2023]

Which, it probably needs to be said for those who weren't there the first time around, is pretty much how XERB was during its "Glory Days".

View attachment 7817

It was always an amalgam of preachers (en Ingles in those days), horse racing and DJ shows.

View attachment 7818

The music started out as pretty raw R&B...

View attachment 7819

...but as the Wolfman became more popular, it morphed into Top 40 with more R&B than KHJ. Cowsills, Ray Stevens, The Beatles? Sure!

The only constant between 1966 and 1972 was Wolfman Jack. And even he wasn't that constant. Sometimes he was on more than once a day. Sometimes he'd start around 9 or so at night. Sometimes it wouldn't happen until 10 or even 11.

Same deal with the other jocks, too, who never lasted long.

It took years and interviews with Wolfman himself to learn what was going on. Wolf, in his alter ego of Robert Weston Smith, was leasing the station and selling time, sometimes in spots, more often in blocks, to make a profit.

If some fire-and-brimstone preacher was willing to make it worth his while to go on later in the evening and let the preacher have 9 p.m., sold. Didn't matter if the preacher wanted that timeslot for 13 weeks or just one. If the money was good, the schedule was flexible.

So, what's happening now is very much in the spirit of XERB back in the day. It was always one big, unpredictable mess.

Have you ever heard an aircheck of the Groovy Leo racetrack show? I wonder how he recreated the races?

 

[K.M. Richards]

The old business model is broken. Great ratings no longer guarantees revenue. A restaurant that offers unique food and good service can still be successful. Radio doesn't have a new formula. They just roll out tired formats and the audience gets older (out of the money demos). Restaurants are happy to have customers in the 55-85 age group.

Public television gets a lot of money from seniors. That's why they still run the Woodstock programming during pledge week...☮️

You still don't get it. Neither does @Mike Stark, judging from his reactions to those who have replied to his grousing.

You both seem to think that we don't already know the old business model changed. And all the reasons why have been stated clearly. Yet somehow you think that going back to a business and programming model that is now hopelessly obsolete (because of the increased number of options available to listeners) is somehow going to work.

Today's radio, forced to adapt to all of those other choices listeners have now -- choices that we had no control over as they came into existence and certainly cannot control now -- has managed to stay alive with a higher usage percentage than by all measures we should still have. Yet we're condemned for that just because it's not the radio you loved decades ago.

GET OVER IT.

 

[radiofan2023]

Public television gets a lot of money from seniors. That's why they still run the Woodstock programming during pledge week...☮️

They had a Pink special and a few other current day music specials on the most recent pledge drive.

 

[tbolt909]

You still don't get it. Neither does @Mike Stark, judging from his reactions to those who have replied to his grousing.

You both seem to think that we don't already know the old business model changed. And all the reasons why have been stated clearly. Yet somehow you think that going back to a business and programming model that is now hopelessly obsolete (because of the increased number of options available to listeners) is somehow going to work.

Today's radio, forced to adapt to all of those other choices listeners have now -- choices that we had no control over as they came into existence and certainly cannot control now -- has managed to stay alive with a higher usage percentage than by all measures we should still have. Yet we're condemned for that just because it's not the radio you loved decades ago.

GET OVER IT.

I never said "go back to an old obsolete" programming method. On the contrary, Radio should be trying to new things. Instead, they have been stuck in survival mode for decades. Many listeners got bored and moved on. Management will retire and leave the dumpster fire to someone else.

Unless Radio can find a way to monetize serving ALL demos (not just under 55), it will be bleak. A listener supported model only works if the content connects with people. I have no desire in supporting Rock stations that haven't changed their playlists in 25 years...

 

[michael hagerty]

The old business model is broken. Great ratings no longer guarantees revenue.

Correction: Great ratings no longer guarantees great revenue. Ain't nobody with great ratings that can't sell spots, unless it's an unsalable demo.

But great ratings gets you agency buys that not-great ratings don't.

A restaurant that offers unique food and good service can still be successful. Radio doesn't have a new formula. They just roll out tired formats and the audience gets older (out of the money demos). Restaurants are happy to have customers in the 55-85 age group.

Radio and restaurants are two businesses I'd never want to be in. The difference in restaurants is that the money comes from the customer, not from people trying to talk to the customer and sell them something else.

Public television gets a lot of money from seniors. That's why they still run the Woodstock programming during pledge week...☮️

So how come the majority of publicly-supported music radio stations are jazz or classical instead of adventurous, music-exploration rock formats? We know public radio likes money.

 

[michael hagerty]

Have you ever heard an aircheck of the Groovy Leo racetrack show? I wonder how he recreated the races?

I actually heard it live, in winter months, in Bishop, waiting to see if Wolfman would come on after.

It was pretty simple---sound effects of a crowd, a bell, the gates and horse hooves, with Leo doing the standard horse-race call:

"It's (name of horse) out of the gate ahead of the pack, but here comes (name of other horse) hot on the trail. Coming up on the outside is..."

 

[michael hagerty]

I never said "go back to an old obsolete" programming method. On the contrary, Radio should be trying to new things.

The risk is that they flush the audience and advertising they have on something that doesn't work.

Survival mode is getting KRTH 2 million weekly cume, top five rankings in every demo that matters and I imagine, in absolute terms, what one of its former morning men once described to me as "Not an obscene amount of money, not a s**tload of money, but an obscene s**tload of money."

 

[radiofan2023]

I actually heard it live, in winter months, in Bishop, waiting to see if Wolfman would come on after.

It was pretty simple---sound effects of a crowd, a bell, the gates and horse hooves, with Leo doing the standard horse-race call:

"It's (name of horse) out of the gate ahead of the pack, but here comes (name of other horse) hot on the trail. Coming up on the outside is..."

Thanks for explaining, I thought it was about car races. When it wasn't on I bet you had a long face!

 

[K.M. Richards]

Radio should be trying to new things. Instead, they have been stuck in survival mode for decades. Many listeners got bored and moved on.

To some degree, yes. But as I said -- and David should be along anytime now with the numbers -- the percentage of persons who still listen (even though for shorter lengths of time, which I attribute to our more mobile society) is still higher than the alternatives. You have to combine all of those alternatives to get a percentage approaching radio, even today.

But, as has been proven time and again, "trying new things" -- even trying to improve on existing formats by expanding the playlist -- never works. The vast majority of today's listeners want "familiar and comfortable", not "a bunch of songs I never heard before" ... and as Mike just said, we still need to perform our best, ratings-wise, to get what agency buys still exist.

And, anticipating a potential response of "if radio was innovative the 'lost' listeners will come back", you know perfectly well that they won't ... at least, not in enough numbers to generate ratings (and again, as Mike said, you would be throwing the old audience under the bus by making significant changes) It would be the philosophical equivalent of the old cliché about closing the barn door after all of the horses have escaped.

 

[michael hagerty]

Thanks for explaining, I thought it was about car races.

In those days, horse racing was one of the few outlets of legal gambling in California, so a lot of attention was paid to horse racing season---even on sports reports on big radio and TV newscasts.

When it wasn't on I bet you had a long face!

Nah. I just knew it meant Wolf would be on later. In Bishop, in the wintertime, we'd get L.A. and San Francisco stations coming in like locals after sundown. There was no shortage of great stuff to listen to. And, in those years, there was also prime time TV to consider.

To be honest, while Wolfman was always interesting, I rarely spent more than 20-30 minutes listening to him.

The truth about Wolfman at XERB was that while everyone heard him sometime, nobody was listening all the time, and not that many people were listening all at once. Wolf would get 1 shares in L.A. Humble Harve would have 14s. The first time Wolf broke into the top 10 in evenings in L.A. was 1972, when he was on KDAY playing mainly album rock.

 

[michael hagerty]

And, anticipating a potential response of "if radio was innovative the 'lost' listeners will come back", you know perfectly well that they won't ... at least, not in enough numbers to generate ratings (and again, as Mike said, you would be throwing the old audience under the bus by making significant changes) It would be the philosophical equivalent of the old cliché about closing the barn door after all of the horses have escaped.

This.

Someone inevitably cites the near-death of radio during the advent of television and how it tried something new and the audience came back.

No.

Jack Benny's audience didn't come back to hear Alan Freed.

What radio did next didn't lure anyone back. It tapped into a new generation that wanted something it couldn't get anywhere else. And today, that's not the situation. Everything is everywhere, all the time.