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Saving AM Radio

I'm not sure that new radio sales are exactly a good way to figure out the popularity of radio today.

The article I posted was not based on sales. It was based on a poll of people, asking how many radios they had in their home. That includes old ones.

Here it is again:


My complaint about radio sales has to do with the electronics industry not offering any exciting new radios the way they did 30 years ago with the Walkman FM and the boom box. No reason to buy a new radio if it's the same as the old radios.
 
The article I posted was not based on sales. It was based on a poll of people, asking how many radios they had in their home. That includes old ones.

Here it is again:


My complaint about radio sales has to do with the electronics industry not offering any exciting new radios the way they did 30 years ago with the Walkman FM and the boom box. No reason to buy a new radio if it's the same as the old radios.
Ahh, sorry - I haven't been following the thread closely and just read this page tonight, which was all about new radio sales.

I'd have to agree with your complaint. There isn't really much new offered, and most of it doesn't sound good at all, especially on AM. Older rigs are cheaper and often sound better, too.

Most folks I know don't have any sort of media player in their house aside from a bluetooth speaker or Alexa or something like that today. The most likely "stereo" they'd have is a record player/turntable these days, I'd say. That's based on my personal experience, though. Here at college, I know almost nobody who has radios of any kind in their dorm. Most use their phones for an alarm (I use my phone and also have a wind-up alarm clock for backup on important mornings because I've had issues with my phone alarm not going off). Those that do have alarm clocks mostly have models without radios in them.

Heck, I'm a radio nerd and while I have a full stereo system in my dorm (turntable, receiver, two big speakers, reel to reel...), I don't have a radio connected to it. Ironically, I even have a set of CBS labs AM boxes here (Audimax/Volumax) but no radio... That said, I do have a couple classic tube units here that I've restored, and I use them once in a while. I've also got a couple of transistor radios.

AM reception is actually surprisingly decent in my dorm, in spite of wifi and a million fluorescent lights around. I'm actually listening to Cousin Brucie on WABC out of NYC on a little transistor radio in my dorm room here in western PA. Coming in nicely, and interference-free, which is awesome! I've actually noticed a drop in AM interference during my time here at school, which I find quite interesting...
 
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Most folks I know don't have any sort of media player in their house aside from a bluetooth speaker or Alexa or something like that today. The most likely "stereo" they'd have is a record player/turntable these days, I'd say. That's based on my personal experience, though. Here at college, I know almost nobody who has radios of any kind in their dorm.

Exactly. The boomers were the "stereo generation." They grew up buying albums, and buying home stereos to play them on. That entire hardware infrastructure doesn't exist anymore, and it has consequences for radio usage. Home stereos were built around an AM/FM stereo receiver. No need for any of that if you stream your personal music off the internet instead of buying CDs. People ask why can't radio be like it was 30 years ago, and a big reason is because for many, the hardware at home doesn't exist anymore.
 
The receiver is a radio, isn’t it?
Nope... I've got a Kenwood KA-4002, which doesn't have a radio built in. It's a bit unusual - a tuner would be separate. Prior receivers I've had in my dorm had tuners built into them, but this one was a significant upgrade over my last unit and I don't really miss the radio at all (I've got a bit of a collection of old receivers and gear haha). There's nothing here on FM that interests me, and the only AM stuff I can get from my dorm that interests me all comes in skywave, so getting in a window is important for that, and transistor radios are fun anyway because it's mostly Brucie on WABC, CFZM, or WSM.

I do have a tuner that I could connect up to the Kenwood, but it's newer and would kill the aesthetic of the setup. Besides, I'd probably never use it anyway - I've got all the albums I could want here and can listen to as many deep cuts as I'd like.
 
Nope... I've got a Kenwood KA-4002, which doesn't have a radio built in. It's a bit unusual - a tuner would be separate. Prior receivers I've had in my dorm had tuners built into them, but this one was a significant upgrade over my last unit and I don't really miss the radio at all (I've got a bit of a collection of old receivers and gear haha). There's nothing here on FM that interests me, and the only AM stuff I can get from my dorm that interests me all comes in skywave, so getting in a window is important for that, and transistor radios are fun anyway because it's mostly Brucie on WABC, CFZM, or WSM.

I do have a tuner that I could connect up to the Kenwood, but it's newer and would kill the aesthetic of the setup. Besides, I'd probably never use it anyway - I've got all the albums I could want here and can listen to as many deep cuts as I'd like.
What you have is called an integrated amplifier.A receiver has a radio tuner.
I understand, the term receiver became sort of generic
 
That is exactly what happened in the famous Minot incident. The people on duty well after midnight were familiar with how to dispatch emergency workers or to alert police, because they were doing the same thing for less sizable events, often every day. But they never had to activate the EAS for a broken water main or a brush fire or an overturned garbage truck.
EAS might have worked had the local authorities bothered to install the gear. (MY company later did that FOR them.)

But it's a different world now, anyway. Not nearly the staff at 1:37AM. Everywhere, by everyone.
 
And I have about 6, I think. Maybe more. But all are either emergency radios in a drawer or box or stored in the garage. None is available to "turn on" quickly in less than 10 to 15 minutes.

Those are "in the home" and not in the car.

Your assumption is right,

Because 2008 was the year when Smart Phones went on the market. But it took a while for people to adopt them (it took me about 72 hours, though).
Does nobody have a big loud stereo system in the living room anymore? Those have tuners, usually.
 
Does nobody have a big loud stereo system in the living room anymore? Those have tuners, usually.

If they did, they would have been counted in the poll I linked. As I said, the whole process of buying records and playing them on the home stereo has been blown up. Boomers still have their stereos, but millennials don't, because they don't buy records, so have no need for home stereos.

 
millennials don't, because they don't buy records, so have no need for home stereos.

And some millennials that do buy records have compact record players with speakers or bluetooth pairing built in, and sometimes also the ability to transfer songs to USB built in too, like these:

 
If you don't think of radio as a basic information source in day to day activities, you are not going to suddenly find it important or critical during an emergency.
People don't consider streams and rivers sources for drinking water in their everyday lives, but when they're hiking in the wilderness and become lost or stranded, they suddenly do.

I think you and some other regulars here are so discouraged about the public's declining radio use that you've made yourselves believe their preference for its superior entertainment alternatives in good times has somehow removed their memories of its utilitarian uses during bad times. I just don't think the situation is that bleak yet. Listen to this person from 22:54 to 24:32, for example. You can tell by his language he isn't a radio listener. I've been watching people's vlogs on Youtube from all over the ruins of Helene, and I'm seeing constant examples of residents talking about turning back to radio for local information because of everything else being out. Many were people without and with internet at the time. Here is another example (9:56 - 10:30, 17:18 - 18:18, 4:30 - 6:03), and a third example (10:48 - 11:45). I can't remember the channel and video titles of every example I saw because I watch Youtube on a logged-out Roku and without a watch history to review, the number I've seen has mostly blurred everything together for me. But this phenomenon is very real and it appeared to be happening en masse. In other words, I wasn't searching for videos mentioning radio (you can't search Youtube video soundtracks anyway), but an inordinate number of generic post-disaster vlog videos showing up to my searches included people mentioning the radio nonetheless.

Have you been paying attention to these threads?

https://radiodiscussions.com/thread...ound-asheville-nc-following-hurricane.773379/
https://radiodiscussions.com/threads/how-are-the-asheville-stations-covering-the-storm.773356/

They contain some personal accounts and multiple links to articles describing how vital radio was in the week or two post-Helene. One scenario at least two articles described was the fragile cellular networks imploding very early into the event, preventing emergency evacuation order texts from reaching people even as the disaster was getting started. Another article I'll just partly quote, since I can't paraphrase it any better personally: "When cell service blinked out and thousands were left without power and water, people turned to radio. It has not been uncommon, in the days since, to see cars with windows rolled down and doors open, radios blaring as neighbors clustered around to listen." Yet another story described how stations with cut-to-the-bone news staffs pooled all their people together to create a single newsgathering and reporting workforce that they all shared during the worst days. Maybe most pertinent of all, it was revealed in another story still that the power was being restored much more quickly than the cellular service.

Which brings up something important. Although cell companies have portable towers, there's no way they'll ever have enough portables to substitute all the regular ones taken offline in major disasters -- and that's assuming road conditions actually let them get those portables into all their damaged tower sites' footprints. It's also worth pointing out that unlike the landline and power utilities, which have been around since the 19th century and are subject to copious accumulations of public utilities regulations, cellular companies are still largely unregulated, including how fast they must move to restore service. We've only begun to see the beginnings of such regulation in terms of some states now requiring propane/diesel generators. But often, those requirements are minimal (24-72 hours), and in disasters where there are widespread long-term power outages, there won't be enough refueling vehicles to keep all the undamaged tower sites topped off. (They're now estimating 3-4 months to restore power in the worst hit areas!) And in cases where there's also lots of blocked and washed out roads, as happened with Helene, they wouldn't be able to get their fuel trucks to all their undamaged sites even if they had enough of those trucks to do that.

Please check the links in those threads, including the Facebook video link. I believe you will be pleasantly surprised. People who had quit radio found it again in droves during and after Helene.

All I can think of is that they want RX capabilities for the international shortwave amateur bands, since those always light up in disasters with emergency nets. Or maybe the metronome effect of WWV and WWVH helps them quell their existential anxieties and fall asleep at night. ;)
Most members of the newer generations under 35 don't even know what ham radio is. And they certainly don't know about WWV.
No, I didn't mean classic preppers who keep cases of water and have 72 hour kits like the FEMA PSAs say. You're right, that demographic is oblivious to ham radio. I meant these people, the full readiness demographic that has exploded to about 20 million since Trump, COVID, and the increase in weather disasters.

And, again, we need to look at the buyers. I'll bet that those under 40 do not think of a radio as part of an emergency preparedness kit as they don't find radio useful for information on a day to day basis. The buyers are likely to be older people who are frightened by the recent storms, heat waves, floods and the like.
Well, read the above article. You'll find what it says about the demographic shifts in survival prepping interesting, just from a demographer's perspective. When 20 million "minorities and people considered left-of-center politically" and "self-described 30-year-old lesbians from Indiana" are prepping like only fringe survivalists once did, you know there's a new culture happening. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the high sales figures I found on Amazon aren't going into their hands as opposed to the hands of fearful middle agers and over. From the article: "I'm really surprised by the number of people of color here. I always went to these shows with my family in Indiana and it was just white people who were my parents age. There are a lot of younger people here, too. It's a real change."

I even wonder how long it would take for most of those same under-35's to realize that they might get in the car, turn on the radio and find information on an emergency situation.
I'm going to take "what is a lot less long than they would willingly sit in pitch darkness waiting for their iPhones to show bars again" for $1,000. :) Also, see above, where everyone just gathers around the guy with the loudest car radio.

If younger people don't think of "radio" for news and information in everyday life, why expect them to do so when under the pressure of an emergency? I've been in several very severe earthquakes outside the US and a state of panic is not conducive to analytical logic.
Initial panic always segues to somber alertness soon after, restoring that analytical state and the natural thirst for information that comes with it. One video that popped up on Youtube for me today actually said it took as long as 4 days to get temporary cell towers distributed. That's a lot of time to calm down, and a lot of radio listening in the process.
 
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It sure looked to me as you were suggesting that radio could, or already is a communications lifeline to the general public. Wouldn't that lifeline from a human interest aspect include some form of gratitude from potential listeners? The answer is, maybe, except that smartphones are the go-to portable do-everything device that radio will never be. My point was; what happens to radio once the dust (or in this case) water clears? It still needs to function as a viable business.
We don't disagree on any of this part. My assertion when I began this topic was simply that people who no longer use radio for normal news/entertainment/talk are still sufficiently aware of its existence, today, to use it in significant numbers, as a lifeline, in emergencies, for emergency content, when the alternatives like cellular/cable all go out. I'm with you on Spotify and Netflix luring most of them right back after any emergencies end. But then again, I never proposed to solve the greater dilemma of how to repopularize radio to historic levels when I brought up my much narrower proposal on how its EAS ought to be augmented. What I suggested for EAS pertained strictly to whatever time radio has left, which I feel is probably 2-3 decades considering the Bob Ross "happy accidents" of classic hits plugging one last generation of 18-34s into FM, and of translators giving AMs renewed public visibility on par with FMs themselves.

In other words, I would have sooner told you augmenting EAS could re-endear former listeners to radio as I would've said SAME alerts could make TV viewers abandon stacked weather babes and colorful 4K weather maps for NWR's ashen robovoice forecasts when the weather was calm and people's cable service was up and working.

As to substack, no thanks. You are talking with someone who has written and published a metric ton in multiple fields outside broadcasting, so the fact that I'm keen to discuss certain ideas thoroughly on forums like RD isn't a symptom of unspent energy. It's just enthusiasm and interest in an idea. In this case, saving lives, which I admit motivated me more than usual to pursue an understanding in spite of this becoming so protracted. But defending an idea when I believe it's being misunderstood doesn't make attempts to clarify my previous words, or to explain again with different words or reasoning, bloviation. And equating it to a failed attempt to be Charles Dickens, as if I were trying to entertain you two, just seemed pointlessly hostile. I'm sorry if I fatigued both of you. But I don't think my "voluminousness" went as beyond the pale as it's being made to sound.

Some of your posts? Actually, they're all longer than just about any others on this board.
Yes, some. You just made me look at my posting history, and most of my messages are the same lengths on average as I see the great majority posting here.
 
Back to the topic of this thread:

I think one way (and the only necessary way) to save AM radio would be for state and federal government disaster response bodies to just buy the best 50,000 watt flamethrower stations' tower sites once and only once their owners reached the point of choosing to surrender their licenses due to non-profitability. (Their studios/business offices would not be purchased.) Those government bodies would then contract with broadcast engineers to maintain and periodically test them -- possibly the same people who had always maintained them for their previous, private owners.

Why do this? Simply so those sites' huge groundwave/skywave signals could continue serving the public during local/regional emergencies in areas not fully penetrated by FM. Basically, their transmitters would sit idle except for weekly tests, but during local/regional emergencies, local staffed FM stations would coordinate among themselves to decide which of their audio programs would get STL'ed to which of those AM sites, causing their 50,000 watt signals to come alive with "FM on AM" and fill in all the enclaves and valleys not reachable by actual FM signals.

(In certain areas where there weren't enough strong FM stations to have a robust EAS network, these AM stations could remain active components of the EAS network itself, also coming alive to transmit EAS alerts to "audiences" of listening EAS receivers before going quiet again.)

In the end, the government would just be paying their (primarily standby) electricity bills, and for periodic inspections and maintenance. Otherwise, what happened to the rest of the AM band would be left to the free market.

This idea makes double sense considering FEMA has already invested in many of these sites by fitting them with EMP proofed studios and backup transmitters. Perhaps the specific 50,000 watt transmitter sites the government could offer to buy -- when and if their owners no longer wanted them -- could be those FEMA hardened ones, plus any that are already serving as EAS LPs in their regions. (Any that are already LPs, the engineering community has already effectively declared their regions' "best" signals, anyway.)
 
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They contain some personal accounts and multiple links to articles describing how vital radio was in the week or two post-Helene. One scenario at least two articles described was the fragile cellular networks imploding very early into the event, preventing emergency evacuation order texts from reaching people even as the disaster was getting started. Another article I'll just partly quote, since I can't paraphrase it any better personally: "When cell service blinked out and thousands were left without power and water, people turned to radio. It has not been uncommon, in the days since, to see cars with windows rolled down and doors open, radios blaring as neighbors clustered around to listen." Yet another story described how stations with cut-to-the-bone news staffs pooled all their people together to create a single newsgathering and reporting workforce that they all shared during the worst days. Maybe most pertinent of all, it was revealed in another story still that the power was being restored much more quickly than the cellular service.
This is one of the disconnects between the government and the radio industry.

The radio industry cannot sustain itself on disasters. If the government wants radio to be there when the cell networks go down, radio has to be vital 365 days a year. Not seven days in a decade after a hurricane dumps 20" of rain on the Appalachians.
 
This is one of the disconnects between the government and the radio industry.

The radio industry cannot sustain itself on disasters. If the government wants radio to be there when the cell networks go down, radio has to be vital 365 days a year. Not seven days in a decade after a hurricane dumps 20" of rain on the Appalachians.
It also puts the lie to the claim that "AM is important in a disaster" since the thread on here listed more FM stations on air and broadcasting info after the storms than AM stations:
I didn't see this until just now, so I commented on an existing post.From Knoxville I can get WMIT and WKSF. I listened briefly to each. WMIT had a jock on the air who put a Haywood County official on. In the few minutes I listened to WKSF I only heard regular format. I imagine a lot of stations are off the air

WKSF, WWNC and WQNQ have all been simulcasting coverage pooled by their staff since Friday morning.

The US government buying 50,000 watt stations just in case there's an emergency so they could run EAS alerts is one of the most unworkable ideas I've ever read on here.
 
It also puts the lie to the claim that "AM is important in a disaster" since the thread on here listed more FM stations on air and broadcasting info after the storms than AM stations:




The US government buying 50,000 watt stations just in case there's an emergency so they could run EAS alerts is one of the most unworkable ideas I've ever read on here.
Well, there was the suggestion of dropping AM radios from helicopters awhile back
 


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