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Bertolucci Out at KFI

like flies to dog poo.
Great analogy. Humanity has a long history of flocking to stupid, stinky, idioidic or sacchrine "entertainment." Consider: "You Light Up My Life" reaching #1, the pet rock craze of the mid-70's, Billy Beer in the Carter years, "Judy in Disguise" reaching #1 in the 60s, everyone saying "Dyyyy-no-mite!!!" when J.J. Walker was a star, the throw-up-in-your mouth song "I've Been to Paradise (But I've Never Been To Me)." the macarena, the Dumb & Dumber movies, Johnny Knoxville in the Jackass series, "Honey Boo-Boo," Kim Kardashian...

I think my I.Q. dropped 10 points just writing this list.
 
I can't believe I'm defending Rush F. Limbaugh. But here we go.

Most of what Rush spewed was B.S. [In my opinion]. My mom listened to him religiously and anything he said was, according to her, the gospel truth, even when I showed her items totally contradicting what he was saying were lies.
In the late 1980s, media genuinely had drifted toward a "liberal bias." It wasn't that ABC, CBS, and NBC intended to be bias. But the producers, reporters, and anchors all lived in Manhattan. They worked in Manhattan. And they did a damn fine job representing a centrist viewport... for Manhattan. This mismatched with Reagan fans across middle America who didn't see news coverage that aligned with their Republican viewpoints, which were right-wing... for a midwest state.

So, the Fairness Doctrine goes away (which the First Amendment would've struck anyway). And Limbaugh syndicates in 1989 and he's talented, and funny, and likeable — and the guy is saying stuff that people hadn't heard on ABC, CBS, or NBC.

Between talent and novelty, he sucked in Boomers in a big way and made fans for life.

Goofy parody songs about Bill Clinton that were mean, but in a "ha ha, I'm just teasing" sort of way. Or at least it seemed that way at the time. You could almost imagine Bill Clinton's aides playing him recordings from the show, and them all chuckling along with the bit. But that started to sour during the 1998 Impeachment Scandal. And post-9/11 jingoism didn't fit well, either.

---------

Fast forward 20 years. He's has a gigantic audience. He's no longer novel. There's an entire gigantic market for right-wing media (cable channels like Fox News, a few dozen fellow syndicated talkers, and huge websites). Rush has to lean into the ideology to stay on top of the market. The tone changes. The show becomes darker. Meaner. Less fun.

Calling a liberal person a "low-eductation voter" goes from being a light-hearted joke to a deep-seated belief. He responds to the market that surrounded him. The audience took him deeper. And he took his audience deeper. And that took the market deeper. So he took the show deeper. And that took the audience deeper... (and the cycle never stopped).

Next thing you know, he's calling a college girl advocating for insurance coverage for birth control a... (well, a deeply unkind term for a woman!)

By the time Rush died, he was unrecognizable from the loveable goofball he was in 1989. The one that even liberals tuned in to listen to. You can bet by the 2010s, every single liberal audience member was gone. Maybe he hadn't changed his political ideology per se, or even his theme song, but he certainly had changed the tone of the show.
 
Most of what Rush spewed was B.S. [In my opinion]. My mom listened to him religiously and anything he said was, according to her, the gospel truth, even when I showed her items totally contradicting what he was saying were lies.
Not lies… perspectives.

I have told this story a number of times in different threads here, but here goes again:

When I owned an operated radio stations in Ecuador, there was a little group of news related people that included the correspondent from news week to the reporter from Prensa Latina, the Cuban news agency. Also among us were stringers from AP and UPI as well as Franspress and two friends from local newspapers.

Many if not, all of us would gather over a beer or two after any local event which had international consequences… things like the overthrow of the government, and attempted revolution, the inauguration of the trans-Andean oil pipeline and the like.

What was fascinating was the difference in perspectives of each observer or reporter. The very same event would be seen from different perspectives, both economic, and social by each of the reporters or correspondents. The Prensa Latina reporter saw social change and the “ upcoming revolution” in everything wow the chap from Reuters saw the economic impact on the regional economy.

All of us witnessed the same events. But we wrote, reported, or broadcast the aspects that affected our audience and our employer. For example, the opening of the oil pipeline was economic progress for the country to some of us and a destruction of natural human and animal habitats to others.

Same story, different lens.
But, as far as syndicating his show, I am assuming that it was an "economy of scale" issue happening. The more stations he was on the cost of it was spread out among all the stations.
It truly cost very little to add additional affiliates to that de facto network. All they had to do at the local level, was install a dish and a receiver, while at the national level, the only change was one more contract and and the increased station count in the sales material going to, the ad agencies that might buy within the show.
But that only goes so far before they have to charge stations more for his content as the years go by. Also assuming there may have been some sales bartering stuff going on behind the scenes. Much like a microwave which cost around $52,000 for the first ones that came out in mid to late 40s, as more were made [more stations jump on the bandwagon in his case] the price began to drop drastically where now you can get them for about $75-100 for the cheapo ones. By the way, it the price had never dropped and kept increasing because, you know, inflation you'd be paying about $912,000 for one today.
But there are two different kinds of “economies“ in play here.

First is the program syndicator, which pays the talent, the studio space, the board op, the call screeners and the back office staff as well as the fee for one or more satellite channels. They sell advertising to national accounts and the affiliate stations have to carry it as their way of paying for the show (in the case of Rush, we had one of very few such shows. That also charged a cash amount.)

At the local level, each station gave up the percentage of inventory as payment for rights to the show and, perhaps, small amount of cash. Then they sold spots to local advertisers at local rates to fill the spot break time that was not taken by the network.

Most stations that carried Rush also carried other satellite delivered shows, both talk shows, news and sporting events. In the 90s, it was comment to see smaller market stations that carried talk programming with two or three different satellite dishes on the roof or in the parking lot.
And as he became more popular, like flies to dog poo, more advertisers flocked to him.
Again, we have to differentiate between national advertisers that bought from the syndicator to be carried on the whole network, and whose money went only to that network and the local advertisers who bought local spot campaigns within those national shows, but only in each individual market. In effect, there were two separate kinds of clients, the all – station national accounts, and the single market local accounts.
 
By the time Rush died, he was unrecognizable from the loveable goofball he was in 1989. The one that even liberals tuned in to listen to. You can bet by the 2010s, every single liberal audience member was gone. Maybe he hadn't changed his political ideology per se, or even his theme song, but he certainly had changed the tone of the show.

I agree with a lot of this. He changed not only the tone of the show, but the tone of discourse in the country. To bring it back to KFI, I think station management recognized this, and was why they moved his show to its own private island. That was when KFI management had the power to do that. Not sure they could make that decision now.
 
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Not lies… perspectives.

No, David....lies, too. Lotsa lies.




Including the causal link between smoking and lung cancer that ultimately killed him:


 
No, David....lies, too. Lotsa lies.




Including the causal link between smoking and lung cancer that ultimately killed him:


I was willing to entertain this line of arguement until you broke out Politifact and NBC News,the same people who bring us that bastion of neutrality and fairness,MSNBC, as your arbiters facts.

Going back to my gut instinct to dismiss out of hand the views of a liberal commenting on the greatest conservative radio talk show host of all time.
 
I can't believe I'm defending Rush F. Limbaugh. But here we go.


In the late 1980s, media genuinely had drifted toward a "liberal bias." It wasn't that ABC, CBS, and NBC intended to be bias. But the producers, reporters, and anchors all lived in Manhattan. They worked in Manhattan. And they did a damn fine job representing a centrist viewport... for Manhattan. This mismatched with Reagan fans across middle America who didn't see news coverage that aligned with their Republican viewpoints, which were right-wing... for a midwest state.

So, the Fairness Doctrine goes away (which the First Amendment would've struck anyway). And Limbaugh syndicates in 1989 and he's talented, and funny, and likeable — and the guy is saying stuff that people hadn't heard on ABC, CBS, or NBC.

Between talent and novelty, he sucked in Boomers in a big way and made fans for life.

Goofy parody songs about Bill Clinton that were mean, but in a "ha ha, I'm just teasing" sort of way. Or at least it seemed that way at the time. You could almost imagine Bill Clinton's aides playing him recordings from the show, and them all chuckling along with the bit. But that started to sour during the 1998 Impeachment Scandal. And post-9/11 jingoism didn't fit well, either.

---------

Fast forward 20 years. He's has a gigantic audience. He's no longer novel. There's an entire gigantic market for right-wing media (cable channels like Fox News, a few dozen fellow syndicated talkers, and huge websites). Rush has to lean into the ideology to stay on top of the market. The tone changes. The show becomes darker. Meaner. Less fun.

Calling a liberal person a "low-eductation voter" goes from being a light-hearted joke to a deep-seated belief. He responds to the market that surrounded him. The audience took him deeper. And he took his audience deeper. And that took the market deeper. So he took the show deeper. And that took the audience deeper... (and the cycle never stopped).

Next thing you know, he's calling a college girl advocating for insurance coverage for birth control a... (well, a deeply unkind term for a woman!)

By the time Rush died, he was unrecognizable from the loveable goofball he was in 1989. The one that even liberals tuned in to listen to. You can bet by the 2010s, every single liberal audience member was gone. Maybe he hadn't changed his political ideology per se, or even his theme song, but he certainly had changed the tone of the show.
I think the turning point was Newt Gingrich convincing Rush that he was a kingmaker. Otherwise, spot on.
 
I was willing to entertain this line of arguement until you broke out Politifact and NBC News,the same people who bring us that bastion of neutrality and fairness,MSNBC, as your arbiters facts.

Going back to my gut instinct to dismiss out of hand the views of a liberal commenting on the greatest conservative radio talk show host of all time.
You should see the liberal critiques of MSNBC, especially since the election. MSNBC sanewashed Trump's most extreme rhetoric with the rest of them. I'm just not buying "all the other networks are hard left (they aren't...anybody calling for their parent company to be nationalized?) but only holy and righteous Fox (who paid a $787 million judgement for lying to its viewers and harming the business of a voting machine company) is telling the truth, when the wouldn't cover anything negative about Trump. Fox will be State Television in the next administration. No, liberals are NOT happy with MSNBC or the mainstream media.
 
I was willing to entertain this line of arguement until you broke out Politifact and NBC News,the same people who bring us that bastion of neutrality and fairness,MSNBC, as your arbiters facts.

That's what's known as willful ignorance.

Anyone willing to look past the URL can see the things Limbaugh said and compare them to the facts in evidence available elsewhere to verify Politifact's assessment---which, by the way---rates some of Limbaugh's claims as "Mostly True" or "True".

But you'd have to actually look to know that.

To be fair, AllSides rates Politifact as just about the middle of "lean left" on a meter that goes "Left", "Lean Left", "Center", "Lean Right", and "Right".


(I'll spare you the Stephen Colbert joke about truth having a well-known liberal bias.)

But AllSides also includes this note:

As of November 2024, AllSides has low or initial confidence in our Lean left rating for PolitiFact. If we perform more bias reviews and gather consistent data, this confidence level will increase.


Going back to my gut instinct to dismiss out of hand the views of a liberal commenting on the greatest conservative radio talk show host of all time.

And y'see, Flip---there's the difference between you and me. I know Rush Limbaugh lied about a lot of stuff. But I don't think everything he ever said was a lie and I wouldn't refuse to listen to him or read what he said out of hand.

I don't think you could bring yourself to say the same about Rachel Maddow.






PS: I'm not a liberal. I voted Republican for 40 years, including for Donald Trump the first time around. I just appear liberal in the current environment.

Which should scare the living s--- out of everyone.
 
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That's what's known as willful ignorance.

Anyone willing to look past the URL can see the things Limbaugh said and compare them to the facts in evidence available elsewhere to verify Politifact's assessment---which, by the way---rates some of Limbaugh's claims as "Mostly True" or "True".

But you'd have to actually look to know that.

To be fair, AllSides rates Politifact as just about the middle of "lean left" on a meter that goes "Left", "Lean Left", "Center", "Lean Right", and "Right".


(I'll spare you the Stephen Colbert joke about truth having a well-known liberal bias.)

But AllSides also includes this note:

As of November 2024, AllSides has low or initial confidence in our Lean left rating for PolitiFact. If we perform more bias reviews and gather consistent data, this confidence level will increase.




And y'see, Flip---there's the difference between you and me. I know Rush Limbaugh lied about a lot of stuff. But I don't think everything he ever said was a lie and I wouldn't refuse to listen to him or read what he said out of hand.

I don't think you could bring yourself to say the same about Rachel Maddow.






PS: I'm not a liberal. I voted Republican for 40 years, including for Donald Trump the first time around. I just appear liberal in the current environment.

Which should scare the living s--- out of everyone.
Rachel Maddow is a great historian and the parallels to the 30s and 40s are frightening.
 
You should see the liberal critiques of MSNBC, especially since the election. MSNBC sanewashed Trump's most extreme rhetoric with the rest of them. I'm just not buying "all the other networks are hard left (they aren't...anybody calling for their parent company to be nationalized?) but only holy and righteous Fox (who paid a $787 million judgement for lying to its viewers and harming the business of a voting machine company) is telling the truth, when the wouldn't cover anything negative about Trump. Fox will be State Television in the next administration. No, liberals are NOT happy with MSNBC or the mainstream media.
"Fox" is a network, one of the "Big 6" that we traditionally call "broadcast networks" as their base is over the air TV stations.

"Fox News" is a cable channel, not a network. Like CNN and MSNBC, they are predominantly distributed by cable and, to some extent, through streaming.

The judgement you refer to was against "Fox News" and not against the Fox network. Two separate divisions of a very large company. In fact, "Fox" is the only one of the "Big 6" not to have a nightly network news show.
 
Great analogy. Humanity has a long history of flocking to stupid, stinky, idioidic or sacchrine "entertainment." Consider: "You Light Up My Life" reaching #1, the pet rock craze of the mid-70's, Billy Beer in the Carter years, "Judy in Disguise" reaching #1 in the 60s, everyone saying "Dyyyy-no-mite!!!" when J.J. Walker was a star, the throw-up-in-your mouth song "I've Been to Paradise (But I've Never Been To Me)." the macarena, the Dumb & Dumber movies, Johnny Knoxville in the Jackass series, "Honey Boo-Boo," Kim Kardashian...

I think my I.Q. dropped 10 points just writing this list.
But you forgot Kyu Sakamoto's Sukiyaki in 1963
 
Going back to my gut instinct to dismiss out of hand the views of a liberal commenting on the greatest conservative radio talk show host of all time.
(The absence of a conservative bias is not automatically the presence of a liberal bias. Just throwing that out there.)

Rush said many things over his career. Tens of thousands of words, per show.
  • Some were truthful ("That's a good point.")
  • Some were subjective ("In the eye of the beholder")
  • Some were misleading ("Well, not exactly...")
  • Some were lies ("Pants on fire")
Not to oversimplify, but c'mon fellas! You will find all of the above in any of his shows.
 
(The absence of a conservative bias is not automatically the presence of a liberal bias. Just throwing that out there.)
As I said in the KGO thread last week:

There are two descriptors you'll hear often from conservatives: "Conservative" and "Liberal".

A word you hear far less often is "Moderate", and that's because many conservatives consider anything that allows for compromise (which being a moderate by definition requires) as selling out. So "Moderate" gets called "Liberal".
 
As I said in the KGO thread last week:

There are two descriptors you'll hear often from conservatives: "Conservative" and "Liberal".

A word you hear far less often is "Moderate", and that's because many conservatives consider anything that allows for compromise (which being a moderate by definition requires) as selling out. So "Moderate" gets called "Liberal".
While it would be a lot fun to go back and forth with y'all on this (well, sort of; in the end I find these discussions tedious and no one ever changes their minds because of them), this discussion has drifted off from radio personality Rush Limbaugh, which I was happy to comment on, to just politics in general.

I promissed Mr. Fybush last year I would avoid overtly political discussions and for the most part have kept my word, which I intend to do here as well.
 
Re "Sukiyaki" by Kyu Sakamoto (original title: Ue o muitte arukou)

I also really like that song! Of course, it helps when memorizing the lyrics was de rigueur in my Japanese class!
Translating original name to English "I Look Up as I Walk". Bet he'd sing it different nowadays if he saw all the people staring at their cell phones while walking.
 
Here's what killed me: Driving across mid to western Ohio a few years when Rush was still alive. Bored silly, looking at cows, cornfields and windmills, I started dialing around the radio. No less then EIGHT AM stations all in the same general area [meaning one wasn't fading out before I could pick up the next one] had Rush on. Tuned to FM, TWO had Rush on. Was thinking to myself, how can they be making any money, getting any ratings when they're cannibalizing each other? This was long before repeaters/translators/LPFMs were a big deal so I knew it wasn't just one station re-transmitting on another frequency.
Myself? If I was a station owner, I'd take a look around and say "This is insanity, there's gotta be something else I can put on to differentiate myself from the competition!" It's like the PD and some of the DJs at one station I worked at, only listened to OUR station [PD I could probably understand, someone screws up you'll be getting a call on the hot line.]. But the rest? My response was "I KNOW what we're doing, I want to hear what the competition is doing!"
 
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