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WMVP AM 1000 Transmitter
- Thread starter John B
- Start date
WMVP applied for an STA to start testing from the Joliet site:
enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov
Draft Copy « Licensing and Management System « FCC
Licensing and Management System
If they are using the new site then that's a good thing. Nobody noticed. Some of the DXers might notice if there is a reduction in nighttime service.
Not me, it never came in in Iowa City or in Kansas at night, and didn’t make it in that well to Iowa City in the daytime.
Special Temporary Authorization (STA) was granted by the FCC on 9/27/2024. Believe they have been transmitting from the WCPT site for the last few weeks. Facebook comments indicate a weaker signal in the northern suburbs. Not sure if they are running full power or not. The STA indicates running at reduced power for adjustments during the STA period. My location on the near south side of Chicago shows a similar signal strength between Downers Grove and the WCPT Joliet site. Modification of License filed on 9/26/2024 to make minor changes to the nighttime pattern due to issues with the grounded tall communications tower on the WCPT site. Affects the null towards AM 1000 in Seattle.
Well at least the directional "protection" is working. WCLF / WMVP should not have had much of a signal west of the Mississippi daytime and almost no signal 150 miles west of Chicago nighttime.
There have been posts that the directional array gave AM 1000 a better signal in a lot of parts of Chicago than WLS back when both were Top 40.
I personally never did much with directional AMs but I had a friend who worked at WFLI and he said they had two "passive" blocking towers in thier antenna field in the 1970s. 1070 was "reworked" sometime in the 1980's when they replaced the water cooled transmters IIRC.
When I had to go out there to pick up tapes you could always find a parking shot by the air chiller. Make sure your car windows were up if it was really windy.
Spot not shot (auto correct strikes again)
Seeing WMVP AM 1000 is transmitting from the towers in Joliet now, I have a couple of questions.
1. Are they transmitting at full power day and night? I can see these towers from my house about 8 miles to the north of me. The signal doesn't seem as strong at times, especially at night.
2. Are they using the old tower site in Downers Grove at all?
3. If they are not using the towers in Downers Grove is there any word on when they will be coming down?
Thanks in advance to the people on here that are in the know.
1. Are they transmitting at full power day and night? I can see these towers from my house about 8 miles to the north of me. The signal doesn't seem as strong at times, especially at night.
2. Are they using the old tower site in Downers Grove at all?
3. If they are not using the towers in Downers Grove is there any word on when they will be coming down?
Thanks in advance to the people on here that are in the know.
WMVP is currently operating at the WCPT Joliet site with a Special Temporary Authorization (STA) that went into effect 9/26/2024 and will expire on 3/26/2025. The STA allows for operation non directionally at a reduced power not exceeding 12.5kW. The non directional, reduced power allows for the installation of diplexing equipment and a safe environment for engineers, technicians installing the required equipment.
The STA also allows for operation at full 50kW day and 37kW night directionally using the New Moment Method derived operating parameters until the FCC completes the processing of the License Application for the Joliet site. It's unknown to me if they are operating at the reduced power or operating at full power but it looks like their signal strength has been relatively the same both day and night since switching to the Joliet site late September. Pattern change appears to be taking place at sunset and sunrise.
There is also a Modification of License request submitted 9/27/2024 to modify the night pattern slightly due to the tall communications tower that on the property directly west of the 6 tower WCPT phased array. The FCC has yet to approve the request.
The Downers Grove site is still intact as of late November 2024. I believe it's been silent since late September 2024. Not sure if all the transmitting equipment has been removed from the main building on the site. It should be Disney's responsibility to deconstruct the site as they are the owner of the site, not Good Karma. It might be the case that until the Joliet site is approved by the FCC as the WMVP licensed site that the Downers Grove site remain in tact until it's officially the non licensed site.
Attached are the day and night 5mV signal contours. Note their is a deep null to the southeast of the Joliet site location. If you're located near that null, it could explain why you are experiencing a reduced signal strength at night
The STA also allows for operation at full 50kW day and 37kW night directionally using the New Moment Method derived operating parameters until the FCC completes the processing of the License Application for the Joliet site. It's unknown to me if they are operating at the reduced power or operating at full power but it looks like their signal strength has been relatively the same both day and night since switching to the Joliet site late September. Pattern change appears to be taking place at sunset and sunrise.
There is also a Modification of License request submitted 9/27/2024 to modify the night pattern slightly due to the tall communications tower that on the property directly west of the 6 tower WCPT phased array. The FCC has yet to approve the request.
The Downers Grove site is still intact as of late November 2024. I believe it's been silent since late September 2024. Not sure if all the transmitting equipment has been removed from the main building on the site. It should be Disney's responsibility to deconstruct the site as they are the owner of the site, not Good Karma. It might be the case that until the Joliet site is approved by the FCC as the WMVP licensed site that the Downers Grove site remain in tact until it's officially the non licensed site.
Attached are the day and night 5mV signal contours. Note their is a deep null to the southeast of the Joliet site location. If you're located near that null, it could explain why you are experiencing a reduced signal strength at night
Attachments
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Southeast or Southwest? Null looks like it's on SW side to me unless I'm misinterpreting something. Ehh, never mind. Once I expanded the map I could see it on the SE but looks very narrow.
Really, the 5 mV/m contours do not tell the whole story. I remember noticing as early as the early 1960s that in the NWC/ORD area, WLS had a much weaker signal than WCFL, and the predicted WLS signal was in the range of 15 mV/m. I never understood why WCFL didn't do better in the ratings compared to WLS, with WCFL having something like a 75 mV/m signal in that area. Transistor radios in that era did not have very good sensitivity, and there was noticeable receiver noise on WLS in that area. WCFL peaked at around 10 mV/m skywave in Southeast Michigan from the Downers Grove site, much stronger than the WLS skywave, due to the directional antenna.
www.thebdr.net
The skywave in the Pellston, MI area seems as good or better at the new site, probably due to the increased skywave at the higher elevation angles with shorter towers.
The Audio Prism Story
[June 2011] In the history of audio processing, the TEXAR Audio Prism holds its own place as one of the key tools in the arsenals of stations fighting to produce their “signature” sound and stand
www.thebdr.net
The skywave in the Pellston, MI area seems as good or better at the new site, probably due to the increased skywave at the higher elevation angles with shorter towers.
Now that WMVP is running at the new site and with new directional pattern, I can (kind of) pick them up in Madison (Wisconsin) at night. It's pretty weak, but with the old night pattern, couldn't hear WMVP in Madison at all. Daytime signal seems a bit better, too. (Yes, I know out of market listening is irrelevant to Good Karma, but as a DX'er and Bears fan, I'm glad I can hear them better now).
With the movement of population from Chicago's south and west sides to the far western suburbs in the early to mid 70s, the WCFL night time pattern provided a weaker or unlistenable signal in these areas. There were large areas of south western Downers Grove, Naperville, Bolingbrook Oswego, Joliet, Plainfield, etc just received side bands with hardly any carrier which made WCFL unlistenable at night. If you left your radio tuned to WLS when you went to bed at night, you were likely to leave it there when you woke up. Lou Witz even ordered his engineers to delay the afternoon pattern change during the winter in order to eek out a few extra rating points during the the Larry Lujack show as was reported by Gary Deeb back then.Really, the 5 mV/m contours do not tell the whole story. I remember noticing as early as the early 1960s that in the NWC/ORD area, WLS had a much weaker signal than WCFL, and the predicted WLS signal was in the range of 15 mV/m. I never understood why WCFL didn't do better in the ratings compared to WLS, with WCFL having something like a 75 mV/m signal in that area. Transistor radios in that era did not have very good sensitivity, and there was noticeable receiver noise on WLS in that area. WCFL peaked at around 10 mV/m skywave in Southeast Michigan from the Downers Grove site, much stronger than the WLS skywave, due to the directional antenna.
The Audio Prism Story
[June 2011] In the history of audio processing, the TEXAR Audio Prism holds its own place as one of the key tools in the arsenals of stations fighting to produce their “signature” sound and stand
The skywave in the Pellston, MI area seems as good or better at the new site, probably due to the increased skywave at the higher elevation angles with shorter towers.
The 2006 rebuilt Downers Grove site improved the night signal towards the north / northwest but created even a deeper null to the southwest. The move to Joliet cures some of these problems but creates other issues especially to the southeast towards Kankakee. The Joliet site is a compromise but it could have been much worse as broadcasters do not want to build out new vertical phased array antenna sites due to cost of land, zoning, public hearing, taxes, neighbor complaints and just the over-all cost for a medium that is assumed to be on the decline or just dead.
4:15 PM EST is a ridiculously early time for pattern change, but they could have gotten into a lot of trouble for it. The late WCFL Engineer Charlie Gustafson said the the pattern change was rigorously observed when he was there.
I am about 8 miles straight south and about 2 miles east of the new transmitter site and I am right on the edge of that null to the southeast. So its possible the signal is nulled a bit. Funny thing is I can physically see all 6 towers at night clearly from my back yard. I do wonder if they are operating though at 37,000 watts at night yet.
Back in the 1972 thru 1976 time frame there was at least from a audiophile / listener standpoint an anti processing movement that primarily wagged it's collective finger at AM radio for being over processed. I believe initially WOPA 102.7 may have had less processing when they were evening album rock as well a WXRT being evening album rock as well during that same time period. This might have been a cue taken from WCBS FM in New York at that time was doing album rock 24/7 with a much more laid back approach than what WABC was doing during the time frame with top 40.Really, the 5 mV/m contours do not tell the whole story. I remember noticing as early as the early 1960s that in the NWC/ORD area, WLS had a much weaker signal than WCFL, and the predicted WLS signal was in the range of 15 mV/m. I never understood why WCFL didn't do better in the ratings compared to WLS, with WCFL having something like a 75 mV/m signal in that area. Transistor radios in that era did not have very good sensitivity, and there was noticeable receiver noise on WLS in that area. WCFL peaked at around 10 mV/m skywave in Southeast Michigan from the Downers Grove site, much stronger than the WLS skywave, due to the directional antenna.
The Audio Prism Story
[June 2011] In the history of audio processing, the TEXAR Audio Prism holds its own place as one of the key tools in the arsenals of stations fighting to produce their “signature” sound and stand
The skywave in the Pellston, MI area seems as good or better at the new site, probably due to the increased skywave at the higher elevation angles with shorter towers.
When the FM's became more popular in the mid to late 70's with WMET, WDAI, WKQX, the big time programers went back to the tried and true "loudness is king" philosophy.
As far as the Chicago AM's from that era are concerned, I always felt that WIND had better sounding audio at least from the 71 thru 78 oldies / Adult Contemporary time frame than WLS or WCFL. WCFL was the first to employ the use a a reverb in their audio chain during the 1969 time frame. It was fairly light and not over powering. WIND went with a similar mild reverb as well after their move to 625 North Michigan from the Wrigley Building, about the same time they brought in Robert W Morgan from KHJ Los Angeles. WLS responded around 1971 with a WABC like reverb that was very pronounced and in your face. WLS stayed with that reverb well into the middle 80's before going to a MOR format prior to the beginning of the current talk era.
Should say CST.
The AM 1000 frequency has three Class A stations, which all must protect each other. In addition to WMVP Chicago, there's KNWN Seattle and XEOY Mexico City. Even though it could run 50,000 watts at night, XEOY doesn't. It's only 20,000 watts at night, 50,000 watts by day. Never the less, it still gets the same protections from WMVP and KNWN.
Mexico City is south-southwest of Chicago. Seattle is west-northwest of Chicago. So that affects WMVP's signal pattern.
Nearly all other U.S. stations on 1000 AM are very low power at night except for one. KTOK 1000 AM in Oklahoma City runs 5,800 watts around the clock. By day, it has a three-tower array and at night it uses five towers in its directional pattern. That's because KTOK is protecting three Class A stations. And if you were interested, Canada has no stations on 1000 kHz, only the U.S. and Mexico.
Mexico City is south-southwest of Chicago. Seattle is west-northwest of Chicago. So that affects WMVP's signal pattern.
Nearly all other U.S. stations on 1000 AM are very low power at night except for one. KTOK 1000 AM in Oklahoma City runs 5,800 watts around the clock. By day, it has a three-tower array and at night it uses five towers in its directional pattern. That's because KTOK is protecting three Class A stations. And if you were interested, Canada has no stations on 1000 kHz, only the U.S. and Mexico.