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“Varied Ideological Perspectives”: a new goal promised for CBS under Skydance

Those of us on the radio side have seen this movie before. There was a time when radio was in the hands of the creators. Admittedly it was a brief time, and wasn't very successful. But radio programming was about freedom of expression and varied musical perspectives. Then the corporate guys came in, streamlined the sound, took out all the variety, and came up with Album Oriented Rock, overseen by consultants who do the music research and come up with consensus music that drives ratings and revenue. We all know how that's done.

That's what's happening here. For a while, news was left to news people. They were kind of nerdy looking people with glasses and suits, speaking in complete sentences, and asking tough questions. But that made the rich & powerful nervous. They'd go on 60 Minutes and get taken to the cleaners by Mike Wallace. Now that the rich & powerful run the government, they want to change that. They want to replace the nerdy news people with smiling, happy people. They did it when Ted Koppel left Nightline. Have you watched it lately? It's more like Inside Edition. That's what we can expect from David Ellison.
Perfect.

We saw this in a more limited form in the 1980s with radio news, first getting watered down as "lifestyle news", then ultimately going away in only a few years, with just a few exceptions, when there was really no reason to listen to it any more. We also saw it in television with Van Gordon Sauter, bringing "moments" to CBS news in that decade and trimming back on hard news. Those tensions have already been around. Books have been written about them, especially when it comes to CBS. (See attached photo of bookshelf with several titles about CBS and the news media.) At least then, there were still outposts of more meaningful forms of journalism in the mass media.

Because of the level of resources required for investigative, in-depth journalism, it's likely to become something that's accessible only to people willing and able to spend money for it, in the form of subscriptions and/or contributions. Their paywalls will restrict distribution of their work, so it won't go viral the way the lower-quality stuff does. For example, the New Yorker regularly publishes investigative pieces. But they get very little distribution aside from the magazine's subscriber base. They're behind a paywall. The New York Times is not quite as stringent about this, but much of its work is accessible only to subscribers. Subscriptions to either publication are far from cheap. What's available for free in the mass media is likely to be of lower quality.

One example: the one mass-media organization in Denver that does investigative journalism on a regular basis is Tegna's KUSA (9News). The Denver Post has been hollowed out by a hedge fund; local commercial radio news is just a brief headline service; Colorado Public Radio will go in-depth but isn't really investigative. Sometimes it confuses length for quality. While 9News is creative in overcoming the limitations encountered by television's essential need for pictures, it still faces time constraints, even though it will run four-minute pieces if needed to explain a story. But it's a local TV station, owned by a chain that's cutting back. I wonder how long that investigative journalism will last.

The First Amendment is no guarantee against economic pressures. The fact that those pressures also help advance a retrograde agenda is just icing on the cake.

Edit: And I forgot the danged picture:
P1040011-resized.jpeg
 
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The First Amendment is no guarantee against economic pressures. The fact that those pressures also help advance a retrograde agenda is just icing on the cake.

The First amendment only is directed at the government. The government can't do these things. But if the government gets private business to abridge the freedom of the press, it's not unconstitutional. If you work for a company, they can abridge your freedom all day long. They can even fire you for it, if you post something controversial on social media or do something they don't like on the air.
 
Exactly. They're still arguing that "conservatives have no voice in media" when, for 30-plus years, since Limbaugh and the launch of FOX News, that voice has not only existed, but grown louder and exerted enormous influence over events and policy.

It's intended to keep the victim mentality alive.
If you were to have someone unfamiliar with American politics, and their primary media source for learning about US political culture and events was terrestrial radio, the idea of the media being majority left would be completely foreign to them apart from the hosts using the phrase "the liberal media."

The number of centrist to left leaning talk hosts on signals of any prominence or significant reach in commercial radio (setting aside the entire NPR debate) could be counted on one hand with room to spare. In the conservative talk space, hosts that weren't sufficiently in step with the new direction of the party were pressured to exit, even to the point of receiving harassment from the audience for not falling in line with he who shall not be named.

I've worked in markets where the dial's talk & news options were NPR or the multiple conservative talk signals. The only television news you'd see, in cafes and lobbies, was Fox News. The exposure to "liberal" ideas or even feeling free to speak in public as a "liberal" or "moderate" was statistically non-existent. I grew up in a rural culture that behaved as though liberals were exotic, dangerous creatures in coastal cities to be feared and avoided.

We've now reached a point where the dominant media leaning, across terrestrial radio, podcasting, and cable news, is conservative. More specifically, the MAGA movement.

And yet, we're seeing pressure exerted on media outlets and companies who don't completely support those ideas or attempt to present other sides of issues. Or even just present hard news in a way that doesn't sufficiently placate those currently in power.

Not only is that everything that's protected by the 1st Amendment, it's how the free market was supposed to work. It's pretty concerning that having media dominance isn't enough for those currently wielding power in DC and at the regulatory agencies. It's not enough to be in the majority, or to take the wins, they're literally working to marginalize opposing ideas. That's not what my grandfather fought for when he was in a POW camp thanks to certain oppressive and authoritarian figures. It's about the most un-American ideology one could have, and it's not making us greater. It's making us lesser.
 
This. All day long this.

And if 60 Minutes survives—-and that’s a BIG “if”, no matter who owns CBS—-you’re very likely to to see it morph into something similar. An hour of “That’s Incredible!” masquerading as news.
The networks have already done it with news magazine brands that weren't as "investigative" as 60 Minutes, but had a harder reputation in their beginnings. I'm talking about the likes of Dateline, 48 Hours, and 20/20. These brands are now churning out the same "true crime" content, just with different branding.
 
Those of us on the radio side have seen this movie before. There was a time when radio was in the hands of the creators. Admittedly it was a brief time, and wasn't very successful. But radio programming was about freedom of expression and varied musical perspectives. Then the corporate guys came in, streamlined the sound, took out all the variety, and came up with Album Oriented Rock, overseen by consultants who do the music research and come up with consensus music that drives ratings and revenue. We all know how that's done.
That has got to be the most inaccurate analysis of AOR I have seen.

AOR came out of Lee Abram's experience at a medium market FM in the Carolinas in the early 70's. He determined that the album rock stations that were doing rather well had great vulnerability because they had open playlists, jock choices, radical swings in mood and lots of stiffs getting played. Abrams too the guidance of Top 40 and applied the idea that there are big hits, little hits and stiffs.

Abrams narrowed down his playlists, controlled the jocks, created lots of promotions and gave his station an overall feel. It was very successful. After branching out as a consultant he teamed with Kent Burkhart and gave data, advice and even help with staffing to lots of FMs that either wanted to become AOR stations or which wanted to shed the "dope smoking hippie" image.

The Burtkhat/Abrams AOR format did not have any initial formal music research as we were a decade away from AMTs. Instead, the PDs did conferences with other PDs and talked about songs that were getting audience or even local sales reactions. They shared promotion ideas, worked with the labels on artist tours and contests. And they had about the wildest conventions known to radio.

Abrams had a team of creators, made up of all the star PDs and their input and ideas.

So AOR was not "the corporate guys" at all. It was one creative PD who took a concept and built on it, introducing his techniques to dozens and dozens of independent and small group stations.
That's what's happening here. For a while, news was left to news people. They were kind of nerdy looking people with glasses and suits, speaking in complete sentences, and asking tough questions. But that made the rich & powerful nervous. They'd go on 60 Minutes and get taken to the cleaners by Mike Wallace. Now that the rich & powerful run the government, they want to change that. They want to replace the nerdy news people with smiling, happy people. They did it when Ted Koppel left Nightline. Have you watched it lately? It's more like Inside Edition. That's what we can expect from David Ellison.
You are missing the herd of elephants in the room. Those networks responsible for Mike Wallace and 60 Minutes have less than a fifth of the viewing levels they enjoyed 30 to 40 years ago. And the serious "newsy" approach is rejected by the latest three generations of viewers, who don't want anything like what you describe as the historical news delivery approach. They want TikTok. What you describe is for Boomers, and nobody else cares very much.
 
That has got to be the most inaccurate analysis of AOR I have seen.

I was mainly describing the period before AOR as a point of comparison. AOR was financially very successful. That's why they did it. Abrams was successful because he was able to speak the language that people like John Kluge understood. That's what I mean by the corporate types. Abrams is still a very effective speaker and leader. That's why he's survived. The hardest part for creatives to understand is how to speak to the corporates. Another master is John Sykes, who is now with iHeart.

You are missing the herd of elephants in the room. Those networks responsible for Mike Wallace and 60 Minutes have less than a fifth of the viewing levels they enjoyed 30 to 40 years ago.

I'm very aware that we're at the end of the golden era for network TV. We all know its over. It's similar to the late 80s when all of the founders of network radio started dying off and their companies got out of the radio business. It's happening to TV. Ellison is the new generation, and he had no emotional attachment to things like CBS or Tiffany Network. That's all ancient history.
 
The number of centrist to left leaning talk hosts on signals of any prominence or significant reach in commercial radio (setting aside the entire NPR debate) could be counted on one hand with room to spare. In the conservative talk space, hosts that weren't sufficiently in step with the new direction of the party were pressured to exit, even to the point of receiving harassment from the audience for not falling in line with he who shall not be named.
You are using a batch of conservative talk radio stations, generally with ratings of around a 1 or below, in comparison with the 3 traditional TV networks that, up to about 2 decades ago, reached hundreds of millions nationally.
I've worked in markets where the dial's talk & news options were NPR or the multiple conservative talk signals.
None with other than a small minority share, even combined.
The only television news you'd see, in cafes and lobbies, was Fox News.
In my extreme travel (quarter million miles a year) all I saw was the CNN airport news and CNN in some hotel public areas. In the bar/restaurant area, I'd see the same as I do today: sports.
The exposure to "liberal" ideas or even feeling free to speak in public as a "liberal" or "moderate" was statistically non-existent.
I stopped watching CNN and the Big Three network newscasts about 15 or so years ago. They had gone far left of my beliefs, and had begun engaging in flavored language and the injection of opinion.

Of course, I am perhaps more sensitive to "progressive" content, having lived or worked under fully "social democrat" regimes, been personally attacked and beaten, been in a Sendero Luminoso bombed building, having my station taken over by communist rebels who beat up my disk jockey, wearing a bulletproof vest to work, seeing bodies by the roadside from "revolutionary" violence...
I grew up in a rural culture that behaved as though liberals were exotic, dangerous creatures in coastal cities to be feared and avoided.
You have, obviously, a different experience.
We've now reached a point where the dominant media leaning, across terrestrial radio, podcasting, and cable news, is conservative. More specifically, the MAGA movement.
I see only Fox News as significant on one side, with ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC all at the opposite end.
Not only is that everything that's protected by the 1st Amendment, it's how the free market was supposed to work. It's pretty concerning that having media dominance isn't enough for those currently wielding power in DC and at the regulatory agencies. It's not enough to be in the majority, or to take the wins, they're literally working to marginalize opposing ideas. That's not what my grandfather fought for when he was in a POW camp thanks to certain oppressive and authoritarian figures. It's about the most un-American ideology one could have, and it's not making us greater. It's making us lesser.
Personally, I see the bulk of media... particularly broadcast TV, as being exactly what you describe.

These are the moments when I conclude that a two-sided, two party system is not always the right solution. Systems based on multi-party alliances such as what is "cleaning up" Ecuador and Argentina, have certain advantages. In broadcasting, that means that there is a wide scope of talk and news stations, each with considerable participation by different groups and factions.
 
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I was mainly describing the period before AOR. AOR was financially very successful. That's why they did it. Abrams was successful because he was able to speak the language that people like John Kluge understood. That's what I mean by the corporate types. He's still a very effective speaker and leader, That's why he's survived.
The period "before AOR" was only about half a decade. A couple of good, independent stations arose in LA, SF and even Cleveland. But most were just....

... instead of putting a name on earlier rock stations, here is what a friend who was named PD of an FM in Louisiana's second largest market early in his career. The station had a strong old-line AM. The FM was "in the back" in a converted storage room. The new PD went in, and was hit by an instant "ambient high" and a coupla' guys in tie-die shirts going "faaar out" over guitar riffs.

John Kluge, for whom I worked internationally, was excellent in delegating authority to people he had determined could "deliver". He did not discuss songs or hot clocks or formatics with people by the 70's. His direct involvement with programming ended even by the time he bought WHK from the local newspaper in the later 1960's.
I'm very aware that we're at the end of the golden era here for network TV. We all know its over. It's similar to the late 80s when all of the founders of network radio started dying off and their companies got out of the radio business.
The reason that GE got out of radio is that there was no scale. They could have a few local stations, but nothing like a TV network that could have some of its own stations as well as hundreds of affiliates that all brought in money. This was a good example of the Jack Welch theorem that "if you can't be #1 or #2 in your field, get out". TV: yes. Radio: No.
It's happening to TV. Ellison is the new generation, and he had no attachment to things like CBS or Tiffany Network. That's all ancient history.
Agreed. But I think Ellison looks at CBS as the horse carriage in a space travel era.
 
You are using a batch of conservative talk radio stations, generally with ratings of around a 1 or below, in comparison with the 3 traditional TV networks that, up to about 2 decades ago, reached hundreds of millions nationally.

None with other than a small minority share, even combined.
I'm not trying to "use" a bunch of one share stations. Let's take it two ways.

1. The predominant commercial talk stations in rated markets across the United States.
2. The commercial talk signals serving "flyover" country between the coasts in smaller and unrated markets.

You yourself admit that it was "two decades ago" that the three traditional networks reached hundreds of millions. Now compare that to the reach of talk radio, the number one rated cable news channel plus new entrants to their right, and podcasting metrics. The majority of it is politically conservative, yet I listen to it and they're still going on about the "liberal media" just like Limbaugh did in his heyday. It's as though they are still fighting a war I maintain they won.
In my extreme travel (quarter million miles a year) all I saw was the CNN airport news and CNN in some hotel public areas. In the bar/restaurant area, I'd see the same as I do today: sports.
My travel is nowhere near as extensive as yours, but I couldn't tell you the last time I saw CNN in an airport. I seem to recall that being a culture war kerfuffle too. But I've seen plenty of Fox News on TV in hotel lobbies, gyms and cafes in smaller town America. To large swaths of the country, that is the news. The networks are meaningless to them except as a punchline.
Of course, I am perhaps more sensitive to "progressive" content, having lived or worked under fully "social democrat" regimes, been personally attacked and beaten, been in a Sendero Luminoso bomed building, having my station taken over by communist rebels who beat up my disk jockey, wearing a bulletproof vest to work, seeing bodies by the roadside from "revolutionary" violence...
I abhor extremist violence in all its forms. That's unrelated to my point that right-wing media is the dominant media in this country among people consuming traditional news & talk media.

That's unless you want to restrict "the media" to broadcast network television, and even then, while it may be socially liberal in a broad sense, it's hardly hardcore leftist. I don't see anyone inspired to do the sorts of things you described by watching CBS Evening News or Colbert. And perhaps I'm more sensitive to authoritarianism and culture war "othering" because my grandfather did time in a German POW camp and came out emaciated.
You have, obviously, a different experience.
I did. I grew up in an extremely rural area where the ideas you heard on the radio (apart from the much debated NPR, which culturally said nothing to most of the residents) ran the gamut from religious conservative to traditional GOP to nationalist conservative.) This was a culture where the most moderate thing you would hear on the radio commercially was Limbaugh. They weren't hearing other points of view in a language that spoke to them or was even accessible for consideration in many cases.

I was the eccentric who read a lot and stayed up late nights listening to other ideologies and ideas on distant AM signals, from libertarians like Neil Boortz (when he was lively and entertaining) on WSB to pretty far left (though his politics evolved) hosts like Jay Marvin on WLS to "radical moderates" like Scoot on WWL in New Orleans, along with conservatives like Michael Medved.

Think of how people in the Midwest or Deep South view Berkeley, California and flip it to the polar opposite and you get my small town and the small towns around it.
I see only Fox News as significant on one side, with ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC all at the opposite end.
I don't think network news has much significance for anyone. I remember when CNN did. My most liberal associates have less vested interest in, and cite content from MSNBC less than my most conservative friends and family cite Fox (or OAN and Newsmax.) I get that it's subjective but in my experience, to a lot of people in smaller and more red states and towns, those networks hold way more authority as "the news."
These are the moments when I conclude that a two-sided, two party system is not always the right solution. Systems based on multi-party alliances such as what is "cleaning up" Ecuador and Argentina, have certain advantages. In broadcasting, that means that there is a wide scope of talk and news stations, each with considerable participation by different groups and factions.

This I'd agree with. And to connect to another lively topic on these boards, NPR (again) I note that what was not proposed was a compromise to adjust funding formulas, support the tribal and rural stations like KSKO in McGrath, and wind down the funding perceived as opulent that benefitted outlets like KQED. The culture war was more viable than the compromise and one party held the power. So both the operations doing well and those struggling, get punished but in a way stations like Paul's may not be able to survive. I'd have had a lot more respect for certain parties if they had come forward with a glide path or adjustment. Scalpel approach instead of a chainsaw.

One thing I do find fascinating is how, in other countries just how many talk stations seem to exist in some markets. I'm used to several in America, but usually those are the top performing station followed by ideologically similar outlets in various tiers of syndication (the iHeart station that is conservative, the Salem station and the other ones that, as you mentioned are usually the 1 share stations.) There's a handful of exceptions like KFI, KIRO, KMBZ and WWL. To hear your description, it would seem there's a broader range of ideas and viewpoints being discussed in these countries. Not speaking the language, I wouldn't be able to discern the differences.

I may lean one way or the other, but what I always found entertaining about the best talk radio I grew up on was the element of surprise. Hearing different positions or someone who you'd think would hold one position due to the "leanings" they had, come out of "left" (not politically) field with a unique take. My inner contrarian loves that and it can make for some great radio.
 
One thing I do find fascinating is how, in other countries just how many talk stations seem to exist in some markets. I'm used to several in America, but usually those are the top performing station followed by ideologically similar outlets in various tiers of syndication (the iHeart station that is conservative, the Salem station and the other ones that, as you mentioned are usually the 1 share stations.) There's a handful of exceptions like KFI, KIRO, KMBZ and WWL. To hear your description, it would seem there's a broader range of ideas and viewpoints being discussed in these countries. Not speaking the language, I wouldn't be able to discern the differences.
Even Puerto Rico, USA, has more highly rated talk stations than any market in the U.S. mainland. WUNO and WKAQ together, with their networks, have over a 14 share on the Island. Several other talkers have more modest shares,

In Buenos Aires, a market the size of New York, none of the principal AMs play music. There are a number of lower power stations (10 kw or less) from 1200 to 1700, but they are specialized such as appealing to Bolivian or Paraguayan immigrants. There are two sports stations, and about eight 50 kw to 100 kw talk stations.

AM is so important there that the ratings don't combine AM and FM. There is an FM ranker and an AM one. The big AMs like Radio 10 (the one I worked with) and Radio Rivadavia together get nearly 50% of the AM audience. With multiple parties, and always changing alliances, each station has its own flavor based on its commentators.

Interestingly, talk radio in Ecuador, Mexico and Argentina has surged in recent years because of the emergence of brand-new parties that have taken the presidency in rejection of the "old guard". Somehow, that is appealing. But for this forum, the key element is that it drives huge audiences to talk stations because even the lesser educated are very involved in politics. As was said to me in Puerto Rico: "politics is the most popular sport here". In Argentina, politics comes right after soccer...
 
The networks have already done it with news magazine brands that weren't as "investigative" as 60 Minutes, but had a harder reputation in their beginnings. I'm talking about the likes of Dateline, 48 Hours, and 20/20. These brands are now churning out the same "true crime" content, just with different branding.
The difference is they did that because it improved the ratings. I think they'll neuter 60 Minutes despite it having very strong ratings.
 
The networks have already done it with news magazine brands that weren't as "investigative" as 60 Minutes, but had a harder reputation in their beginnings. I'm talking about the likes of Dateline, 48 Hours, and 20/20. These brands are now churning out the same "true crime" content, just with different branding.

Which is, as I've said before, why I miss it (and always will) when 20/20 was like this with Downs and Walters (still sadly missed, as is Tom Jarriel), in this broadcast from Feb. 1990:

 
The difference is they did that because it improved the ratings. I think they'll neuter 60 Minutes despite it having very strong ratings.
I agree. The true crime content is cheaper and can bring guaranteed eyeballs. I also agree with you regarding 60 Minutes. The CPB cuts will also have an effect to Frontline as well.
 
Eliminating the Fairness Doctrine allowed the rise of conservative talk radio starting in the late 80s and 90s. Prior to that, talk radio as a format had largely been limited to a handful of major market stations and generally did not have a strong ideological bias.

But the Fairness Doctrine or its absence is utterly irrelevant to Fox News and OANN -- the Fairness Doctrine never applied to cable networks and it is unlikely that the scarcity argument used to justify the Fairness Doctrine could have been applied to cable networks even if the FCC had wanted to expand it to cover cable. That means that even if the Fairness Doctrine had stayed in force it would have had no impact of Fox News, OANN, or for that matter, MSNBC.

Politically, I definitely lean left but the nostalgia that so many progressives have for the Fairness Doctrine is mostly misplaced.

Excellent point. The Fairness Doctrine only applied to broadcast stations, and was applied somewhat narrowly. Somebody had to complain about a piece of content, and then some bureaucrat got to decide whether or not "fairness" had been breached and a remedy was in order.

In general attempts by governments around the world to enforce fairness in speech have failed. The authorities charged with enforcing them are not themselves unbiased observers.
 
The difference is they did that because it improved the ratings. I think they'll neuter 60 Minutes despite it having very strong ratings.
Part of me feels that 60 Minutes would be more apt to be cancelled or merged directly into 48 Hours. Would be a lot easy and interchangeable to just have the same show title pumping out the same true crime swill multiple nights a week.

At least the Australian 60 Minutes (which by all accounts has as much of a high reputation as its' American counterpart) would continue.
 
Part of me feels that 60 Minutes would be more apt to be cancelled or merged directly into 48 Hours. Would be a lot easy and interchangeable to just have the same show title pumping out the same true crime swill multiple nights a week.

Trump made it harder for CBS to do that a few hours ago:


That, Colbert and then the cancellation of 60 Minutes which has high ratings and is at last report, profitable? There's no way to spin that.

Politically (and I mean that in all senses of the word), their best move is to leave 60 Minutes on the air, under that title. They should also not interfere with content, but I think that may be asking entirely too much of the people involved.
 


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