1 Million dollar sale of WWWK 105.5 in the Keys.

[Stormychuck]

Footnote: Poor choice of word's, tower's and salt water, only for AM's........

 

[surfdude]

Many posters present their opinions, which is what makes these discussion boards fun.
David E presents facts. He has the experience and the access to the research to back up what he says.

I appreciate his many contributions to this board. I've been in the business for 34 years and I learn stuff from Mr. Eduardo all the time.

Don't be offended by his corrections, enjoy the education.

 

[jmtillery]

I, too, have the highest respect for Mr. Eduardo. I've been in the industry since the mid 70s, and I, too, learn from Mr. Eduardo's insights and fact findings.

 

[davideduardo]

Thankyou DavidEduardo, as most agree all of your posted information is nothing then more research that you post as your own. That's fine...

1. I have built AMs in salt marshes, on hillsides, on mountaintops, where there was ground water a foot below the surface and where there was volcanic rock a foot below the surface. I have designed and built directionals, and built a lot of the transmitters, too. 1 kw to 100, and even had a shortwave AM station. I know about AM sites based on experience... it's been 46 years since I built my first AM from ground up.

2. Same goes for FM. I built the first FM in a Bolivarian nation 43 years ago, from scratch... the exciter, the stereo generator and even the antenna bays were built in-house. We even did propagation studies and operated as vertical-polarized only based on research... but research I did myself. I also did research on beam tilt because my later site was at about 13,500 feet above sea level and I'd climb the tower and adjust mechanical tilt with a winch and then go drive the signal for days, then do it again and again till it was right.

3. The study of listening and signal strength is not something I read. It's something I did over the period of more than a year, plotting MapMaker, Arbitron data and coverage maps. Yes, it was research but it was research I did myself. So, contrary to your assumption, the research is my own.

Clearing the air, unlike AM's salt water has no effect on an FM signal, if you would have read carefully, all I said was the tower sat in salt water, which half the time it was, it was in a salt water marsh.

You said towers loved being in such a state. The ovbious inference is that you thought, until corrected, that being next to the ocean, in addition to being oh-so-romantic, was good for FMs. Of course, mangrove swamps are not too romantic, and they are next to the ocean too, ordinarily...

Cuba, that was meant to be a joke,

So the part about covering all of Dade County was a joke? Or the one about WXOS covering the Bahamas (hint: no Bahamian station covers the Bahamas)? I am having a difficult time separating the jokes from the backpeddaling.

David you of all people, I'm surprised you took that statement serious, of course it didn't cover Cuba, if it did, how in the world would one know about it?

Surprisingly, there is a good deal of communication between peoplle in Cuba and the US. When I've been involved with various projects for Radio Martí, it's been possible to estimate the penetration of 1180 into Cuba via some relatively simple statistical sampling in what we jokingly called "exit interviews."

This is my tongue-in-cheek way of saying WXOS at one time was a power house, and as the former owner/operator of WXOS as a family company, their is really very little you can tell me referenced radio signal's out of the Florida Key's...

Let's see... WXOS was owened by Dee Rivers (E.D. Rivers, Jr., son of GA governor E.D. Rivers) and his estate from sign on until BGI (Figee, et. al.) in 1994. That would mean you are saying that you are a member of the Rivers family.

Interestingly, the station was sold in 1994 to BGI for $1 million, meaning that cash flow was likely less than $60 k a year... again evidence of how difficult a market the Keys have always been. And it's interesting that BGI also bought a station in the U.S.V.I, possibly the worst radio market in the US, so owing one in the Keys must have been familiar ground.

Offering up viable information is one thing, you seem to have made it your job to quote and correct everything little thing that individual's post that's not quite in the realm of your knowledge or radio information spectrum, and this my friend is really not your job and this is where you and I differ!

Again, unless the Keys is such an odd market that the laws of physics don't apply, WWWK has under 31,000 listeners in the 64 dbu signal. It has no desirable market, and is going to have a rough go of it.


[/quote]

 

[Ai4i]

Cuba is 700 miles long, and no FM can cover that

Charles E Nobles and his thirteen smiling faces will accept your challenge, but they will require a new perch that can get a bit higher than the one they rode, last time around!

 

[davideduardo]

Cuba is 700 miles long, and no FM can cover that

Charles E Nobles and his thirteen smiling faces will accept your challenge, but they will require a new perch that can get a bit higher than the one they rode, last time around!

Great pic! Were you aware that the Radio Martí program of the USIS uses Commando Solo http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-117853858.html aircraft on Saturdays to broadcast the Martí programming to Cuba from a wire dragged in the air on 530 AM? Of course, the Cubans brought back the beautiful music format on the same channel, blocking this interesting use of taxpayer dollars.

 

[Groove1670]

Ahh...mystery solved WWWK is using Stratovision to cover the Miami/FTL metro. Heard they got a great deal on the former XOS model (No longer in use). ;D Sorry, couldn't resist. My apologies.

 

[Stormychuck]

My goodness, what in the world was I thinking? David your absolutely correct on all aspects, and I stand corrected on everything you've mentioned, a well deserved learning curve and I look forward to more of your interesting and informative topics....

 

[vibe]

I would agree that most people listening in offices/office buildings would listen to strong FM stations but there are a lot of small 1 story business in the Keys and South Dade.
This is unlike the top 20 markets.
FM in Fla for some reason travels a lot farther than those RL contours. I used to listen to several Orlando stations in clear stereo in the car in Venice-Englewood Fl (well outside the RL contours until translators took over.) And 102.5 the Bone out of Sarasota- Bradenton almost makes it to Naples along I-75 WAY past those RL contours. And some Miami FM' stations make it to Naples.
So those contours are very conservative. Are the snowbirds, undocumented folk, and people living in marinas included in those numbers?? There seems to be a lot of traffic on Rt 1 for such a small population.

 

[Ai4i]

And some Miami FM' stations make it to Naples.

When they were using non-DA antennæ.
Most stations by the county line are now economizing by reducing east-west signal.

 

[Stormychuck]

Thankyou Vibe: before thing's got out of control, I suppose your point was what I was trying to convey.

Regardless of what the maps indicate, radio in Florida and especially in South Florida travel well beyond.

Example, I receive a station that's located 48 miles away as the crow flies on the coast here in Central Florida (Clear Channel station) FM no static at all 24/7 in car, in house, in town, although little or no objects to interfere with their signal, it's doe's very well at only 6KW off of a 300ft plus tower!

Go figure!

 

[davideduardo]

I would agree that most people listening in offices/office buildings would listen to strong FM stations but there are a lot
of small 1 story business in the Keys and South Dade.

I was specifically referring to listening in non-moving situations, meaning at work (most work is not in an office, by the way) and at home... which account for more than two-thirds of all listening. In other words, if a station has a 6 share, 4 shares come (on average) from at home and at work listening, and only two or less come from in-car.

A lot of testing has been done on the kind of clock radios, kitchen radios and radios that might be used at work and most can not, simply, reliably receive signals below something in the mid-60 dbu range... that means that the signal outside the building, house or store has to be nearly 70 dbu to get a usable signal indoors.

This is more of a physics situation than one related to market size. I ran the numbers in a market not even in the top 75 and found nothing different, in fact. An interesting effect of not having a good variety of good signals, as happpens in some smaller markets or outlying counties of some large ones is that the amount of radio listened to (PUR) declines.

This is unlike the top 20 markets.

The laws of physics are the same, and WalMart sells the same clock radios in Smallville as in Bigtown.

FM in Fla for some reason travels a lot farther than those RL contours.

Actually, the useful contour for an FM station is about 20% inside the smallest red contour on the radio-locator pages. That is where 95% of all in-home and at work listening happens, based on actual analysis of actual diarykeepers representing over a half million returned diaries and millions and millions of listening incidents.

Car listening can be reliably accomplished right out to the protected contour of each station, and then it depends on how close a co-channel is located... but, as I said, car based listening is a third or less of all listening. And, very importantly, unless a station can be reliably heard both in car or elsewhere in a market or portion of a market, it's unlikely that it will get any signficant ratings (meaning "listening") in that market or area. In fact, I've never seen a case of a successful station that barely penetrates a market for decent car listening but not the rest of locations.

I used to listen to several Orlando stations in clear stereo in the car in Venice-Englewood Fl (well outside the RL contours until translators took over.) And 102.5 the Bone out of Sarasota- Bradenton almost makes it to Naples along I-75 WAY past those RL contours. And some Miami FM' stations make it to Naples.

Again, in car... and listening by a person with more than an average interest in radio. I'll bet you would not find those stations at those locations by scanning, which is how the average listener finds stations when away from their hometown. That is because most radios are programmed by the manufacturer to stop on strong signals because that means they can be reliably heard as a person moves.

Are the snowbirds, undocumented folk, and people living in marinas included in those numbers??

If a person has a permanent residence, that is where they would be recruited by Arbitron. That means that if a person from Atlanta who has been recruited to particpate in the ratings drives to Key West, their listening, if any, while in the Keys (and anywhere else they go) will be counted in the Atlanta book. Since so few might do that, this sort of incidental listening will not show. People living on boats in a marina might be counted if they have a true local address and a phone hookup or cellphone that is local. Illegal immigrants can be recruited like anyone else, but most will not participate due to fears about giving personal information.

Of course, The Keys is now an unrated market...

There seems to be a lot of traffic on Rt 1 for such a small population.



[/quote]

 

[davideduardo]

And some Miami FM' stations make it to Naples.

When they were using non-DA antennæ.
Most stations by the county line are now economizing by reducing east-west signal.

What Miami FMs are anywhere near the Lee County line?

 

[davideduardo]

Example, I receive a station that's located 48 miles away as the crow flies on the coast here in Central Florida (Clear Channel station) FM no static at all 24/7 in car, in house, in town, although little or no objects to interfere with their signal, it's doe's very well at only 6KW off of a 300ft plus tower!

Again, millions of diary entries over a multi-year period show that 95% of in-home and at work listening happens within the 64 dbu contour. You are part of the 5% that is willing to seek out distant stations and actually listening to programming that is not home to the area they live in.

 

[Stormychuck]

DavidEduardo: No way, we've actually agreed on something, I can't believe it, I didn't think you had it in you, what a pleasant surprise.

Here's something you can answer, how is it a small watt station 6KW can travel nearly 50 miles and have that amount of clarity?

The 5% your right, nearby Orlando programming wise doesn't offer what this station has to offer!

Thank you for your polite and pleasant answer....

 

[jmtillery]

And some Miami FM' stations make it to Naples.

When they were using non-DA antennæ.
Most stations by the county line are now economizing by reducing east-west signal.

What Miami FMs are anywhere near the Lee County line?

I believe the county line referred to is the Dade - Broward County line. Many, if not all, of the FMs at that location are now directional North / South preventing any kind of meaningful signal towards the Fort Myers / Naples market. I believe this is what the poster is giving reference

 

[cd637299]

But OTOH....what's the status of WRXK 96.1---I thought that they were gonna move their stick to somewhere in Hendry County, and try to cover both coasts. (At least maybe the 96.1 pirate here will take a hint.)

Not that I'd be a loyal listener or anything....

cd

 

[jmtillery]

Where exactly in Hendry County is the new proposed 96.1 tower site? I have not found any applications nor CPs for any moves. However, if any move is beiing considered, WRXK will need to protect 95.7 and 96.5 Miami, but I'm sure that can be accomplished depending on the actual tower site. Properly situated, 96.1 will become a true coast-to-coast South Florida FM.

 

[cd637299]

OK it looks as if WRXK have deep-sixed that idea. Can't find it on R-L nor FCC query.

Carry on.

cd