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10 yrs later, another set of firings at KGO

To David: WVGR lost close to a couple hundred feet of height in the process.

WSRW-FM also vacated the WOOD-TV tower around the same time and now transmits from side mounted bays on the WVGR structure. 265 kW from 177 meters HAAT, although impressive, doesn't get out as well as the original 265 kW from ~280 meters HAAT. Signal in Lansing is significantly weaker than before, for example. When they were on WOOD-TV's tower, their signal in greater Lansing (and definitely Battle Creek) was better than that of WBCT. I arrive at those conclusions based on first hand experience.
 
I wonder if KGO's success back in the 80's / 90's was partly due to how balanced their programming was back then. They had something for everyone. All news, talk shows and hosts on both the left and the right, but never too extreme.

You had conservatives like Jim Eason, Lee Rodgers, and Dr. Bill Wattenberg (whose show was about science and tech, but wasn't shy about speaking his conservative beliefs).

And then you had liberal and left leaning hosts like Ronn Owens, Bernie Ward, and Ray Taliaferro, and Dr. Dean Edell.

The present day KGO might be trying to appeal to an audience that has moved on to KQED for left leaning, KSFO for the right and KCBS for news. In other words, the KGO audience of the past is now fragmented, with each group satisfied with those current choices. And now KGO has to settle for what's left of that news/talk pie, which is a small slice now.
 
KilowattKat said:
I wonder if KGO's success back in the 80's / 90's was partly due to how balanced their programming was back then. They had something for everyone. All news, talk shows and hosts on both the left and the right, but never too extreme.

You had conservatives like Jim Eason, Lee Rodgers, and Dr. Bill Wattenberg (whose show was about science and tech, but wasn't shy about speaking his conservative beliefs).

And then you had liberal and left leaning hosts like Ronn Owens, Bernie Ward, and Ray Taliaferro, and Dr. Dean Edell.

The present day KGO might be trying to appeal to an audience that has moved on to KQED for left leaning, KSFO for the right and KCBS for news. In other words, the KGO audience of the past is now fragmented, with each group satisfied with those current choices. And now KGO has to settle for what's left of that news/talk pie, which is a small slice now.
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KGO's audience of the past is now dead or out of any realistic sales demo. Part of KGO's problem is that any sales-relevant adult audience today has no memory of the brand standing for anything, much less excellent radio.

Mickey left it alone as long as the numbers looked good, but by the 90s, there were demographic alarm bells going off.
 
KilowattKat said:
I wonder if KGO's success back in the 80's / 90's was partly due to how balanced their programming was back then. They had something for everyone. All news, talk shows and hosts on both the left and the right, but never too extreme.

You had conservatives like Jim Eason, Lee Rodgers, and Dr. Bill Wattenberg (whose show was about science and tech, but wasn't shy about speaking his conservative beliefs).

And then you had liberal and left leaning hosts like Ronn Owens, Bernie Ward, and Ray Taliaferro, and Dr. Dean Edell.

The present day KGO might be trying to appeal to an audience that has moved on to KQED for left leaning, KSFO for the right and KCBS for news. In other words, the KGO audience of the past is now fragmented, with each group satisfied with those current choices. And now KGO has to settle for what's left of that news/talk pie, which is a small slice now.
Click to expand...
Don't forget Dr. Michael Krasny, he was the best...
 
michael hagerty said:
KGO's audience of the past is now dead or out of any realistic sales demo. Part of KGO's problem is that any sales-relevant adult audience today has no memory of the brand standing for anything, much less excellent radio.

Mickey left it alone as long as the numbers looked good, but by the 90s, there were demographic alarm bells going off.
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Not just the audience dying off, but those KGO hosts as well. Only Ronn Owens, Dr Dean Edell, and Bernie Ward are still with us. Although Bernie might still be in prison (what a story that was!).
 
KilowattKat said:
Not just the audience dying off, but those KGO hosts as well. Only Ronn Owens, Dr Dean Edell, and Bernie Ward are still with us. Although Bernie might still be in prison (what a story that was!).
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Ward was released in December of 2014.

My point about the audience, though, was that even when KGO had this great lineup and reputation for excellence---it wasn't attracting younger audiences. It's as though they were dazzled by being #1 12+ and didn't look at the demos as the station went from 35+ to 50+ to 65+.

This is the dilemma that faces all successful radio stations. If you age with your core audience, the day comes when you've got nothing. You run out of advertising dollars long before you do listeners. If you work to remain fresh continually and have a consistent flow of younger people (in this case, people in their 40s), you're accused of tampering with success.
 
michael hagerty said:
Ward was released in December of 2014.

My point about the audience, though, was that even when KGO had this great lineup and reputation for excellence---it wasn't attracting younger audiences. It's as though they were dazzled by being #1 12+ and didn't look at the demos as the station went from 35+ to 50+ to 65+.

This is the dilemma that faces all successful radio stations. If you age with your core audience, the day comes when you've got nothing. You run out of advertising dollars long before you do listeners. If you work to remain fresh continually and have a consistent flow of younger people (in this case, people in their 40s), you're accused of tampering with success.
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There must have been a fear of aging down the demo and ruining their success. I'm not sure how that could have been done without replacing very popular hosts with younger ones, which would have driven away the older audience. Now they did try that with KSFO during the hot talk years, but left KGO the same until it was too late.

Maybe what could have saved them was a gradual transition with new hosts over a period of time When Cumulus decided to blow it up all at once and start from scatch, was one of the worst radio decisions ever.
 
KilowattKat said:
Maybe what could have saved them was a gradual transition with new hosts over a period of time When Cumulus decided to blow it up all at once and start from scatch, was one of the worst radio decisions ever.
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Well, yeah---exactly. The trick---and there's no guarantee it would work---is to fill any vacancy (and there weren't many at KGO) with someone younger, evolving the hosts a timeslot at a time over decades.

Probably the best I've ever seen it done was KMPC in Los Angeles in the 60s and 70s. When Johnny Grant, born in 1923, moved up to an executive position at Golden West, he was replaced by Gary Owens, born in 1934. When Ira Cook, born in 1916, phased out of middays, they replaced him with Geoff Edwards, born in 1931 and Jim Lange, born in 1932. When Jack Angel, born in 1930, left for KFI, they replaced him with Kathy Gori, born in 1951. All that took place over eight years.
 
michael hagerty said:
Well, yeah---exactly. The trick---and there's no guarantee it would work---is to fill any vacancy (and there weren't many at KGO) with someone younger, evolving the hosts a timeslot at a time over decades.

Probably the best I've ever seen it done was KMPC in Los Angeles in the 60s and 70s. When Johnny Grant, born in 1923, moved up to an executive position at Golden West, he was replaced by Gary Owens, born in 1934. When Ira Cook, born in 1916, phased out of middays, they replaced him with Geoff Edwards, born in 1931 and Jim Lange, born in 1932. When Jack Angel, born in 1930, left for KFI, they replaced him with Kathy Gori, born in 1951. All that took place over eight years.
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The poor results of Hot Talk 560 KSFO, probably made Mickey and the rest of management wary of trying to youth up KGO.
 
KilowattKat said:
When that happened, wasn't KGO's share down to the mid to upper 3's? I'm not sure if they were even in the top 5 anymore.
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I don't have 2011 numbers, but as late as fall 2009, KGO was still number two with a 5.5---only a tenth of a share out of first place. But, their trend over the year leading up to that was 6.3-6.1-5.4 and their audience was down to 722,400---which put them 12th in cume.
 
KilowattKat said:
The poor results of Hot Talk 560 KSFO, probably made Mickey and the rest of management wary of trying to youth up KGO.
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Could you tell me what their model was with hot talk ksfo? Im familiar with the station but only being 25 im not sure i was alive when they ran with this idea. As far as trying to youth up am stations you are probably correct it migh as well be a lost cause at this point. For example audacy giving up on their channel q idea on am 1500 in san fransisco and selling it to some oriental broadcasting company.
 
Syfy said:
Could you tell me what their model was with hot talk ksfo? Im familiar with the station but only being 25 im not sure i was alive when they ran with this idea. As far as trying to youth up am stations you are probably correct it migh as well be a lost cause at this point. For example audacy giving up on their channel q idea on am 1500 in san fransisco and selling it to some oriental broadcasting company.
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I admit I was a fan of "Hot Talk", it was a lot more fun to listen to than regular talk radio. Not just KSFO, but other stations across the country were doing it. It was aimed towards 18-34 year olds, with hosts and topics (other than politics). Usually it would get on the wild side as far as topics discussed.

The most popular syndicated hosts were Tom Leykis, Don and Mike, The Fabulous Sports Babe, and even Dr Laura was considered hot talk. Leykis was probably the most outrageous, pushing the envelope, discussing sex, and his controversial philosophy on relationships.

Later in the 2000's, there was Free FM, that was on stations owned by Infinity in major markets, that did the same format
 
KilowattKat said:
I admit I was a fan of "Hot Talk", it was a lot more fun to listen to than regular talk radio. Not just KSFO, but other stations across the country were doing it. It was aimed towards 18-34 year olds, with hosts and topics (other than politics). Usually it would get on the wild side as far as topics discussed.

The most popular syndicated hosts were Tom Leykis, Don and Mike, The Fabulous Sports Babe, and even Dr Laura was considered hot talk. Leykis was probably the most outrageous, pushing the envelope, discussing sex, and his controversial philosophy on relationships.

Later in the 2000's, there was Free FM, that was on stations owned by Infinity in major markets, that did the same format
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I remember hearing that KLSX-FM Los Angeles (Now Known as KNX-FM) was the flagship of FM talk at the time where in other parts of the USA it's Hot Talk.

But at that point when FM Talk came out Disney took over ABC Radio. What would have Disney done to lower the demos for ABC Radio owned stations at that point given that FM Talk was trending at the time.
 
TheBigA said:
Disney didn't know what to do. That's why they got out of the radio business in 2006. From the minute they bought ABC, they wanted out of radio.
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But Disney Held Radio Disney and ESPN Radio for some time though. Note Radio Disney and Radio Disney Country shut down in 2020 after KRDC their last station switched to ESPN Radio affiliate. Recently Disney sold ESPN Radio affiliates WEPN and KSPN to Good Karma Brands but that deal was pending as of 2022. Note KRDC is for now Disney's remaining radio station as of 2022.
 
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