1090 XEPRS Has Gone Back to Oldies Plus Wolfman - L.A. Daily News

[K.M. Richards]

Someone inevitably cites the near-death of radio during the advent of television and how it tried something new and the audience came back.

The best explanation I have ever run across was one that said (paraphrasing) "When network radio programming moved to television, taking the audience for same with it, radio reinvented itself for a new replacement audience."

 

[davideduardo]

Too simplistic. Many people don't know what they like until they've been exposed to it. Some simply follow the mob and like what is "Popular". There's a lot music that people might like if they heard it.

And nobody said that radio researches "new release" songs. Those stations that play currents have to wait for sufficient exposure to research current songs.

Before alternative media came about, we'd generally wait for about 80 to 100 spins on our own station... usually 2 ½ weeks to 3 weeks... and do call out research. Today, we weigh in plays on web sources to evaluate how often our target audience has to hear a song before it can be evaluated. The base here is that a listener has to hear the song about 8 times for it to be measurable.

A lot of background study has been done about how "first impression" does not indicate future "like" or "love" for a song. Record companies tried all kinds of studies to predict if a cut would be a hit and always failed.

Some Rock stations played songs that the listeners did not select. The idea was to put out a product that would be compelling.

No, the fact was that there was no research for those station's playlist and, in total truth, the songs were often smoke roasted in the studio. When Lee Abrams created his hit based album rock format in the earlier 70's almost all those free-form rockers faded away. A few, with very talented staff members in the bigger markets, survived a while longer.

But when stations started playing researched songs that the listeners wanted to hear, those that played the jock's choices died.

Creating a station playlist that featured new songs, album cuts, and "hits" took effort.

Actually, it took no effort. It was mostly the personal taste of the airstaff and that was usually wrong.

I know of many stations that had success with savvy programming and promotion. I'm sure you will dispute it, but it was true once.

Yes, until a better choice that was listener focused came about. The early album rock stations played a lot of trash, but to hear the good songs you had no choice... until a truly listener-based option came on..

People no longer need Radio to "research" songs for them. They can find what they want on their own...

The disadvantage of radio is principally the commercials. Form many people who don't want to either pay for a service or select their own playlists, it is a valid option and still used by 85% or more of adults today.

 

[K.M. Richards]

No, the fact was that there was no research for those station's playlist and, in total truth, the songs were often smoke roasted in the studio. When Lee Abrams created his hit based album rock format in the earlier 70's almost all those free-form rockers faded away. A few, with very talented staff members in the bigger markets, survived a while longer.

And even then, the handwriting was on the wall. Since mi amigo David brought up "bigger markets" let's look at the one he and I (and @michael hagerty as well) know extremely well ... Los Angeles.

94.7 KMET was one of the pioneering "free form" progressive rock stations, adopting the format in 1968 when Tom Donahue moved it from crosstown 106.7/KPPC-FM.

That same year, 95.5/KABC-FM, forced to comply with new non-duplication rules, split from 790/KABC and tried doing all-news (which lasted a few days longer than three months; they dropped it the same day 980/KFWB went to that format). They then created an automated progressive rock format called "Love", voicetracked by the late "Brother" John Rydgren, which also ran on their FMs in New York City, Chicago, San Francisco, Detroit and Pittsburgh, and that was also when they started broadcasting in stereo. "Love" was something of a disaster, if reports in the trades are any indication, and they went live and free form before long.

In 1971, Tom Yates replaced the KABC-FM progressive format with "Rock'n Stereo KLOS", which Wikipedia accurately -- -- describes as "only the top tracks from the best-selling rock albums". This is generally considered to be the first AOR (album oriented rock) in the U.S., and also is thought to be where Lee Abrams got his inspiration.

It only took them a year to be the highest-rated FM rock station in the market, and it was mostly downhill for KMET by then; in reality, what audience they had initially as the only rocker in town mostly moved to 95.5 when Yates tightened the format. I remain amazed that 94.7 lasted until the beginning of 1987 before finally collapsing.

So, even back then, the listeners wanted structure and familiarity to rock radio. The only difference between KLOS and the top-40/CHR stations over the years (KHJ, KKDJ, KKHR, KIIS-FM, etc.) was -- and still is -- no jingles and no high-energy jock talk-ups to the post.

This example alone should disprove the fallacy of "outside the box" programming being a ratings success.

 

[TheBigA]

Too simplistic. Many people don't know what they like until they've been exposed to it. Some simply follow the mob and like what is "Popular". There's a lot music that people might like if they heard it.

So instead of asking people what they like, you prefer one person imposing his personal music taste on everyone? Really? OK. There are stations that operate that way. No research, and they just play what they like. Those stations exist. Most of them get 1 share or less. A lot of them are non-commercial. But if getting good ratings is the goal, you can't just throw spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. You have to know what you're doing.

I can understand people doubting research or questioning it when it's done by radio people. But music research is also being done by record labels. It costs a lot to release a single, and that song has to deliver in both airplay and streaming. What's amazing to me is how accurate the research is. Because it's one thing for radio to say a song is a hit. But how about when the people agree, and the same songs top the streaming charts? The streaming charts aren't done for radio. They show what the people listen to when they make their own playlists. It's very rare that the streaming charts differ from the radio airplay charts. Why? Because the airplay people look at the streaming charts as part of the research process.

What do we see on the streaming charts? I'll tell you. The conventional wisdom is that people don't like to hear the same songs over and over. If you look at the streaming charts, you see that people stream the same songs over and over. For example, "A Bar Song (Tipsy)" by Shaboozey has been the #1 most streamed song for TEN WEEKS! You think people don't want to hear the same song over and over? Tell that to the people who are streaming the same songs over and over. Because that's what they do.

Don't be afraid of research. It may change your mind about some things. Unless you have a closed mind and refuse to see the truth.

 

[K.M. Richards]

For example, "A Bar Song (Tipsy)" by Shaboozey has been the #1 most streamed song for TEN WEEKS! You think people don't want to hear the same song over and over? Tell that to the people who are streaming the same songs over and over. Because that's what they do.

A good, current, real world example of "consensus favorite" ... which is pretty much what we use research to determine which songs to play in our respective formats.

 

[michael hagerty]

In 1971, Tom Yates replaced the KABC-FM progressive format with "Rock'n Stereo KLOS", which Wikipedia accurately -- -- describes as "only the top tracks from the best-selling rock albums". This is generally considered to be the first AOR (album oriented rock) in the U.S., and also is thought to be where Lee Abrams got his inspiration.

It only took them a year to be the highest-rated FM rock station in the market, and it was mostly downhill for KMET by then; in reality, what audience they had initially as the only rocker in town mostly moved to 95.5 when Yates tightened the format. I remain amazed that 94.7 lasted until the beginning of 1987 before finally collapsing.

Well, there's an interesting middle in there. In June of '77, Yates resigned from KLOS. He blamed corporate-mandated tweaks that caused a drop in the spring '77 book:

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Business/Music/Archive-RandR-IDX/IDX/70s/77/RR-1977-06-24-OCR-Page-0001.pdf#search=%22tom%20yates%20klos%22

What had happened was that KMET had risen 2.1-2.7 in the fall '76 book. KLOS was still more than a full point ahead of them (3.8), but ABC got panicky.

The spring '77 book showed KLOS at a 2.8 and KMET at a 2.7.

KLOS recovered and got back up to a 3.8 by winter '78, but by that point, Sam Bellamy was in full control at KMET---and she had a 3.6.

---Important to note that once Thom O'Hair and Raechael Donahue were gone and Sam was driving, KMET was NOT free-form. It was as much of a big hit album station as KLOS---but it had an irreverent attitude that KLOS just couldn't touch.

After that, it got ugly fast---summer '78 showed KMET with a 4.8 and KLOS with a 2.3.

KMET was dominant for the next couple of years, and it wasn't until 1981, Frazer Smith in the morning and a whole lotta hype around "TOO HIP" that KLOS got back in the game. Still, it was a less-than-a-full-point horse race between KLOS and KMET until '85, when the Mighty Met ran out of gas.

So, even back then, the listeners wanted structure and familiarity to rock radio. The only difference between KLOS and the top-40/CHR stations over the years (KHJ, KKDJ, KKHR, KIIS-FM, etc.) was -- and still is -- no jingles and no high-energy jock talk-ups to the post.

As I've said here a few times---KLOS "Out-Draked Drake." In fact, Bill's original plan for KRTH---the reason for the call letters and K-Earth branding---was that he wanted to do AOR. Then he realized that KLOS had been doing exactly what he wanted to do for a year and a half, and went oldies instead.

 

[K.M. Richards]

What had happened was that KMET had risen 2.1-2.7 in the fall '76 book. KLOS was still more than a full point ahead of them (3.8), but ABC got panicky.

The spring '77 book showed KLOS at a 2.8 and KMET at a 2.7.

KLOS recovered and got back up to a 3.8 by winter '78, but by that point, Sam Bellamy was in full control at KMET---and she had a 3.6.

I remember that, but had forgotten that KMET did have a renaissance for a few years afterwards. Still, I did say "mostly downhill" ...

As I've said here a few times---KLOS "Out-Draked Drake." In fact, Bill's original plan for KRTH---the reason for the call letters and K-Earth branding---was that he wanted to do AOR. Then he realized that KLOS had been doing exactly what he wanted to do for a year and a half, and went oldies instead.

As you know, I had the privilege of talking with Bill Drake face-to-face, one-on-one, for a little over an hour about a year before his passing (still one of the highest points in my career). He confirmed that fact, as did Art Laboe when I talked with him a few years later.

I still wonder what would have happened if Drake had stuck to his original plan. Which would have dominated: KRTH or KLOS? Or would it have been a see-saw battle over several years?

And ... would there have been a K-100?

 

[michael hagerty]

I remember that, but had forgotten that KMET did have a renaissance for a few years afterwards. Still, I did say "mostly downhill" ...

Yeah, (and we're good enough friends that you know I'm not busting your chops here), but that "mostly downhill" for KMET included a couple of books at #2 overall, a three-year dominance of the format and seven years of bad luck for KLOS.

As you know, I had the privilege of talking with Bill Drake face-to-face, one-on-one, for a little over an hour about a year before his passing (still one of the highest points in my career). He confirmed that fact, as did Art Laboe when I talked with him a few years later.

I still wonder what would have happened if Drake had stuck to his original plan. Which would have dominated: KRTH or KLOS? Or would it have been a see-saw battle over several years?

I think Drake would have gotten his tail handed to him. I have enormous respect for him, and enjoyed my correspondence with him enormously (a few e-mails over a couple of weeks), but he was the squarest guy on earth. It took Ted Atkins streamlining KHJ to get Prerez Prado's "Patricia" out of the Gold file---in 1971!

Yates knew how to make KLOS sound hip, but not quite stoned. Drake didn't understand hip, so he'd either have gone too far in the cariacture direction, or not far enough ("Hello, fellow young people.").

And ... would there have been a K-100?

Yeah, because Bruce Johnson still would have taken over RKO and asked Drake to fire Watson and Torres and do all the work himself. And Drake, loyal to a fault and not interested in being Paul Drew and working 60-hour weeks, still would have said no and walked out.

The interesting "what if" is that Drake first talked to Cox, which had just bought KFI.

They weren't ready for Top 40 yet (John Rook says they never were and he lied to them that "this is what Adult Contemporary is in Los Angeles" when he programmed it from 1977-81), but what if they'd said yes?

Drake, Morgan and Steele on a 50,000-watt AM station against KHJ in December of 1973 instead of a (then) signal-challenged FM. I don't know who I'd have bet on (recent aircheck listens have told me that I didn't give Paul Drew enough credit and Charlie Van Dyke is a force to be reckoned with in mornings). At minimum, it would have been one hell of a battle.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Yeah, (and we're good enough friends that you know I'm not busting your chops here), but that "mostly downhill" for KMET included a couple of books at #2 overall, a three-year dominance of the format and seven years of bad luck for KLOS.

I'd never accuse you of busting my chops when you fill in the gaps in my memory. I think I've been through so much over my 50+ years in the biz that I've forgotten more history than I remember ... and even though I am affiliated with David's World History site I don't always take the time to check for details.

Hence my use of hedging verbiage such as "mostly".

The interesting "what if" is that Drake first talked to Cox, which had just bought KFI.

They weren't ready for Top 40 yet (John Rook says they never were and he lied to them that "this is what Adult Contemporary is in Los Angeles" when he programmed it from 1977-81), but what if they'd said yes?

Drake, Morgan and Steele on a 50,000-watt AM station against KHJ in December of 1973 instead of a (then) signal-challenged FM. I don't know who I'd have bet on (recent aircheck listens have told me that I didn't give Paul Drew enough credit and Charlie Van Dyke is a force to be reckoned with in mornings). At minimum, it would have been one hell of a battle.

My God. I never even considered that before.

And if that had been the case, KKDJ's numbers might have continued to grow and the ill-fated KIIS-AM/FM simulcast of 1975 might not have happened ... and Ten-Q likely would never have happened either.

 

[michael hagerty]

My God. I never even considered that before.

And if that had been the case, KKDJ's numbers might have continued to grow and the ill-fated KIIS-AM/FM simulcast of 1975 might not have happened ... and Ten-Q likely would never have happened either.

You're right. KKDJ wouldn't have had K-100 splitting the finite share of FM listeners at that time. You could have had three roughly equal Top 40 morning men within a year---Van Dyke, Morgan and Tuna---all within a point of each other.

KTNQ wouldn't have happened.

Beyond that, Lohman and Barkley are out of a job---right about the time that KMPC had offered Bob Crane Whittinghill's job and Crane turned them down. KMPC rode with Whit until 1979, but would they have grabbed an available Lohman and Barkley?

Speaking of KMPC, if KFI is a success, or even competitive, Morgan stays put. Doesn't go to KMPC in 1975 for weekends and doesn't succeed Whittinghill in '79.

(My other favorite what-if is if KRLA had tapped Buzz Bennett, just departed from KCBQ, in fall of '71 as PD instead of Shadoe Stevens. Another instance in which there probably isn't a TenQ, because it would have already been done, five years earlier, by Buzz.)

 

[K.M. Richards]

Beyond that, Lohman and Barkley are out of a job---right about the time that KMPC had offered Bob Crane Whittinghill's job and Crane turned them down. KMPC rode with Whit until 1979, but would they have grabbed an available Lohman and Barkley?

Hmmm. In 1973, Mark Blinoff was PD at KMPC, and if I recall correctly, he was the one who approached Crane about Whittinghill's shift. If L&B became available as the result of a Drake-initiated format change at KFI, I think we would have been just as likely to have approached them.

OTOH, Drake's "straightness", as previously mentioned, might have caused him to do the same thing Rook did, which was to keep Al and Roger in morning drive and tone down the music even more for the handful of records they would play.

Or ... who's to say that L&B wouldn't have ended up at KGBS, displacing Hudson & Landry to afternoons (which is where they ended up on KFI a couple of years later anyway) and Dave Hull either went to KMPC earlier, or Drake hired him for KFI?

 

[michael hagerty]

Hmmm. In 1973, Mark Blinoff was PD at KMPC, and if I recall correctly, he was the one who approached Crane about Whittinghill's shift. If L&B became available as the result of a Drake-initiated format change at KFI, I think we would have been just as likely to have approached them.

OTOH, Drake's "straightness", as previously mentioned, might have caused him to do the same thing Rook did, which was to keep Al and Roger in morning drive and tone down the music even more for the handful of records they would play.

Or ... who's to say that L&B wouldn't have ended up at KGBS, displacing Hudson & Landry to afternoons (which is where they ended up on KFI a couple of years later anyway) and Dave Hull either went to KMPC earlier, or Drake hired him for KFI?

Drake would have kept Morgan. He and Steele essentially walked out of KHJ with Drake’s promise of a gig once their non-competes expired. And Drake was loyal.

Rook kept Lohman and Barkley because he had worked with them both in Denver. Drake had never worked with either and had his own guy.

At the time, KGBS was trying to figure out if they could afford to keep Hudson & Landry (the answer was no and they were gone in March of ‘74, along with Dave Hull, so that wouldn’t have been an option for L&B).

Hudson & Landry would have been really out of luck if KFI had gone Top 40 under Drake. Might have been KEZY or just nightclubs and TV for them.

And Dave Hull, who also landed at KFI? Maybe fill-ins at KMPC, but that opening wouldn’t happen until the fall of ‘75.

 

[michael hagerty]

Not to go too far down the "Drake at KFI" rabbit hole (everyone not named "K.M." or me says "too late!"), but:

Let's say that happens.

Don Barrett gets to keep K-100.

Rich Brother Robbin bailed as PD and went home to KCBQ in July (Gene Price got the PD/Afternoon gig), and took Mike Butts in September. So there's an opening for mornings there. Gene West was evenings, but I think Robbin pulled him down to KCBQ, too.

Barrett probably can't afford either Lohman and Barkley or Hudson and Landry, but he probably can afford Dave Hull and Jerry Bishop (one for mornings, one for evenings). Barrett already has Roger Christian in noon to 3. So, instant big-name lineup. And he softens the music a bit, and tries to find a place musically between KMPC and KIIS.

And...back to your point about if KKDJ succeeds, there's no KIIS AM/FM:

KIIS-AM likely would not have survived and KKDJ would have been in a position to grow with FM.

Which might mean KIIS-FM wouldn't be a worldwide brand name for contemporary hit radio today. If it were, it wouldn't have its roots in Los Angeles radio.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Barrett probably can't afford either Lohman and Barkley or Hudson and Landry, but he probably can afford Dave Hull and Jerry Bishop (one for mornings, one for evenings). Barrett already has Roger Christian in noon to 3. So, instant big-name lineup. And he softens the music a bit, and tries to find a place musically between KMPC and KIIS.

And with Bishop moving from KIIS to K100, there's the final nail in 1150's coffin ... which, instead of becoming the simulcast partner of 102.7, would likely change formats before long, and Barrett could then gently move 100.3 a little more uptempo, just in time for Adult Contemporary to become a "thing", format-wise (as I know from having programmed that format in Ventura from 1978 to 1981).

Fairly good trip down the rabbit hole, Mike. In a parallel universe, that's probably what happened.

 

[michael hagerty]

And with Bishop moving from KIIS to K100, there's the final nail in 1150's coffin ... which, instead of becoming the simulcast partner of 102.7, would likely change formats before long, and Barrett could then gently move 100.3 a little more uptempo, just in time for Adult Contemporary to become a "thing", format-wise (as I know from having programmed that format in Ventura from 1978 to 1981).

What surprises me, listening to airchecks from '72 and '73 (the signal didn't make it to Bishop, and I just had other stuff to listen to when visiting L.A.), is just how good KIIS-AM was before Combined bought it. I mean, I shouldn't be surprised---Chuck Blore consulting, Ted Atkins and then Sonny Melendrez programming, with Carole Archer doing music. It was an excellent A/C.

 

[johndavis]

So instead of asking people what they like, you prefer one person imposing his personal music taste on everyone? Really? OK. There are stations that operate that way. No research, and they just play what they like. Those stations exist. Most of them get 1 share or less. A lot of them are non-commercial. But if getting good ratings is the goal, you can't just throw spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. You have to know what you're doing.

This also applies to college/community radio.
People like the idea of freeform radio, it's just incredibly hard for anyone outside of the studio to listen to it.

 

[Mike Stark]

This also applies to college/community radio.
People like the idea of freeform radio, it's just incredibly hard for anyone outside of the studio to listen to it.

I guess what I garner from this thread is that radio has conceded its previous duties of exposing new music to Spotify and other Internet platforms. I actually understand this concept having done a lot of "mobile DJ" work when I was younger. I would have never thought to play anything new at a wedding I would spin for. People want to hear the same music over and over again (This shows itself in the "mobile DJ" Top hit lists that come out every year where the same records I played 20 years ago are still on that list). It saddens me that radio has become that same beast, with WAY more output of GREAT music being released than anytime in history. I guess it is what it is. That's why I'm no longer a mobile DJ (that and lifting speakers), and that's why my preference in radio is Satellite or college/community radio. I'm that one guy listening.

 

[K.M. Richards]

I guess what I garner from this thread is that radio has conceded its previous duties of exposing new music to Spotify and other Internet platforms.

Not so much conceding as being steamrolled. Once those platforms got going and became the primary sources for younger listeners, there was no way radio could really compete. At best, we could play a couple of album tracks we thought could be hits; on the streams, listeners can literally sample an entire album ... and skip past a song if it didn't appeal to them in the first 30 seconds.

Our biggest enemy has been the rise of "instant gratification".

 

[ILOVERADIO]

In those days, horse racing was one of the few outlets of legal gambling in California, so a lot of attention was paid to horse racing season---even on sports reports on big radio and TV newscasts.



Nah. I just knew it meant Wolf would be on later. In Bishop, in the wintertime, we'd get L.A. and San Francisco stations coming in like locals after sundown. There was no shortage of great stuff to listen to. And, in those years, there was also prime time TV to consider.

To be honest, while Wolfman was always interesting, I rarely spent more than 20-30 minutes listening to him.

The truth about Wolfman at XERB was that while everyone heard him sometime, nobody was listening all the time, and not that many people were listening all at once. Wolf would get 1 shares in L.A. Humble Harve would have 14s. The first time Wolf broke into the top 10 in evenings in L.A. was 1972, when he was on KDAY playing mainly album rock.

Did wolf man’s great appearance in the move American Graffiti make him a much bigger star? Loved the movie and his appearance in it.

 

[michael hagerty]

I guess what I garner from this thread is that radio has conceded its previous duties of exposing new music to Spotify and other Internet platforms. I actually understand this concept having done a lot of "mobile DJ" work when I was younger. I would have never thought to play anything new at a wedding I would spin for. People want to hear the same music over and over again.

And that's nothing new, Mike. Look at Rick Sklar at WABC. He didn't play records until they were already proven hits. We Southern Californians got used to music discovery because of the KFWB-KRLA-KHJ battle, which made "hear the hits first here" a selling point, and guys like Dave Diamond and B. Mitchel Reed who made music exploration a big part of early FM album rock.

But by 1973, KLOS was playing the hits (just big records with little holes, instead of vice-versa) and KHJ, under Paul Drew instead of Bill Drake, wasn't taking chances on records anymore.