1600 WULM trying to screw over 1610 Info AM of Kettering

[KFodor]

Hey, gang:

While we're on this discussion, were any of you actually aware that an original licensee for Channel 26 in Springfield was...The WAVI Broadcasting Corporation? (Or some form of it?)

Yes...it could have been...WAVI-TV! (Lord help us!) Bud Crowl at one time supposedly had the construction permit for it.

Or, at least that's the recollection of my late friend, Kurt Farmer, who told me about that a few months before his death in August...

Think about it. Bob Kwesell...Brad Clay...Dr. Frank...Dick Norman...all on TV. Oh...my..God!

 

[nmoore6676]

I think during one of the times that channel 26 was off that Smilin' Bob wanted to purchase it but that was during the times that the FCC was trying to eliminate AM-FM-TV ownership in the same market. WHIO and WBNS held on because they never tried to sell or reorganize so they remained whole. A far cry from today's situation although they still frown on broadcast and newspapers in the same market.

I do remember foggily that WAVI was mentioned in the newspapers as having applied for a TV license but I did not know that it went as far as a CP. That was also probably long before WDAO went on FM.

As an aside since part of this discussion has been about WULM's lack of Dayton coverage, I remember as a kid listening to WAVI out of Dayton from Lawrenceville when they were only 250 watts. I'm not sure when they went up to 1KW, but I believe it was fairly recently. They used to have some weird sign off where they said something like "due to the archaic laws of broadcasting station WAVI must now leave the air".

 

[Flying-Dutchman]

I do recall Bob Yontz's interest in channel 26. But program sources for an independent TV
station were hard to come by in those days. Few networks. TV was expensive.

I also knew Gus Son WWSO and Bradley Kincaid WJEL. I should have learned more from them!
Thanks for bringing me up to speed on their broadcasting history.

 

[nmoore6676]

I think that Bradley Kincaid was WWSO or according to one biography I read. I was a little too young to be clear on that. Actually the original incarnation of WSWO-Channel 26 had some pretty good stuff. They did a local version of Bozo and had the Joe Pyne syndicated TV show. They also did a country show, I think Saturday night featuring the late Donnie Bowshier. I believe he had also appeared on WJEL in the early 50's late 40's.

Wasn't there also a scandal involving Dayton's channel 16 which was started by Vic Cassano and claims were made that he used "influence" to get the ABC network affiliation? The station was sold or maybe forced to divest and ended up as a PBS station. Maybe if Smilin' Bob had put on a fight for channel 26 it could have been ABC.

 

[gr8oldies]

I'm not sure but it seems that WKTR-16 went bankrupt after a couple of years and was dark for quite a while. Credit WKTR for getting Dayton away from channels 2 and 7 (maybe 22 as well) cherry-picking from all the networks' schedules.

 

[majicjim]

WKTR was an independant renegade in its day precedeing WXIX and WSWO by a year or two. (WTTV and WGN-TV could also be an inspiration here.)

Vic Cassano was an enterprising spirit when he and his partners formed Kitty Hawk Television Inc. However the short lived ABC affiliation in 1970 was supposedly "under the table" and it went dark by years end when it lost the affilliation. On the bright side of that deal all the other Dayton stations finally stuck with one network as WHIO,WKEF and WLWD up to that point played "mix and match" programming from NBC,CBS and ABC since the mid 1960s. Several Toldeo stations also played "mix and match" as well...possibly because ABC (and even more so CBS) had no color programming until the fall of 1965.

WKEF was briefly an independant which gave us "Clubhouse 22" in 1970.WKTR tried to make a comeback in the spring of 1971 but went dark again only after a month before becoming WPTD's early incarnation WOET a year later.

 

[nmoore6676]

Thanks for the info and restoring my memory. I remember Clubhouse 22 and also Dr. Creep. When I was in Columbus Warner Cable used to pick up programming from WKEF to fill in black out pre-emptions and at that time there was a Saturday Afternoon Horror movie show with the good doctor as host.

I always thought that Barry's show and persona was on a par with the more famous Elvira character, eschewed by Cassandra Peterson. Guess Hollywood is better to be discovered in than Dayton.

 

[hipporadio]

MEMORIES INDEED! I vividly-recall watching TV channels 16/19/22/26 in those formative-UHF years in the late 60s/early-70s. Just before Christmas in 1968, the family gifted itself—our first COLOR TV—a Zenith console with UHF capability. As a “yute”, I remember being fascinated that “life” went beyond channel-13. I watched those “snowy” pictures often, and my mother threw a fit... “You’re going to ruin your eyes”, she screamed- “Turn on the ‘REGULAR’ channels!”

I’ll always remember WXIX-19 for: The Cool Ghoul on “Scream-In”; Roller Derby featuring Joan Weston and The Bay City Bombers; The Larry Smith Puppets; those old b&w Saturday-afternoon westerns [“The Pioneers” and “Trails West”], and the octagon “stop-sign” 19 logo.

WKEF-22 was ABC [and little else] from the first moment I saw it. I recall “Clubhouse-22”, and the recent off-network shows: “The Avengers” and “Here Come the Brides” [both formerly on ABC]. They did this “stretch ‘n fetch to stay alive” after losing ABC to channel-16, but managed to hunker-down and make-it thru the storm.

From eastern Indiana, WSWO-26 was irregular... It’s most viewable picture occurred late at night – when it didn’t sign-off at 11:30PM after their premier show—“Joe Pyne”] – and right after a whopper thunderstorm front moved thru. It was by-far—the lowest-budget of the four. Nearly every show was a b&w retread from the 50s [“Mr Lucky”, “Peter Gunn”, “Mr. and Mrs. North”, and “Dobie Gillis” – along with a movie package that wrapped-up in 1959]. They DID have a color camera in the local studio... A Saturday-night movie featured a LOCAL HOST in studio on a set where he sat in a folding lawn chair in front of a hitch-camper. I remember that their logo resembled a pre-made “rub-off” graphic purchased at a crafts store—a boxy “26” with slanted divisions and the WSWO calls below.

BY FAR, I enjoyed Channel 16 [Kitty Hawk’s WKTR from studios on E. Stroop Rd.] the most... ‘Maybe because they presented an hour of three un-cut “Three Stooges” episodes every weekday afternoon from 5:30-6:30PM. They also showed “The Dick Cavett Show” at 11:30 from ABC [which channel-22 mysteriously passed on]. The only in-studio origination I remember was an occasional news-break hosted by this guy who bore a striking resemblance to an Italian “Don” [was it Mr. C himself] in cut-aways during “Follow the Sun”, “Cinema 16”, and right before Cavett. If you ask me to recall ONE facet of Dayton’s channel-16 that is indelible; it would be their incessant dependence on the USAF 5-minute PSA—“High Flight” – in color, and featuring footage of a stratospheric jet—set to classical music and a “pilot’s poem”. They aired it DAILY at their :25 sign-on—weekdays before the “Underdog” cartoon at 3:30PM. Humorous SIDEBAR: When the FCC required UHF stations to sign-on at noon, WKTR complied by showing “High Flight” at 11:55AM followed by 25-minutes of color-bars... They would repeat this ritual EVERY half-hour until the customary airing of “There’s no need to fear – Underdog is here” at 3:30 PM! I remember their snare of ABC and the declaration that “UHF Television has come-of-age in Dayton”... It was short-lived, and WKTR was forced to return to an unplanned-for independent fall-back. The last image I remember before they went dark was a SPONSORED station ID with the GM/Frigidaire logo... The end soon followed, and so did that of a UHF independent pioneer.

 

[KFodor]

I think during one of the times that channel 26 was off that Smilin' Bob wanted to purchase it but that was during the times that the FCC was trying to eliminate AM-FM-TV ownership in the same market. WHIO and WBNS held on because they never tried to sell or reorganize so they remained whole. A far cry from today's situation although they still frown on broadcast and newspapers in the same market.

I do remember foggily that WAVI was mentioned in the newspapers as having applied for a TV license but I did not know that it went as far as a CP. That was also probably long before WDAO went on FM.

As an aside since part of this discussion has been about WULM's lack of Dayton coverage, I remember as a kid listening to WAVI out of Dayton from Lawrenceville when they were only 250 watts. I'm not sure when they went up to 1KW, but I believe it was fairly recently. They used to have some weird sign off where they said something like "due to the archaic laws of broadcasting station WAVI must now leave the air".

Again, I can't totally vouch for the WAVI-TV story. But, my source was a late station engineer who was there during that time. As he told me, Bud Crowl allegedly decided TV would be too expensive for his tastes, and he abandoned the idea. Especially, once WDAO got up and running...it was Bud's moneymaker, even though WAVI was certainly his passion.

The 1K power upgrade, I believe, came in the late 70's/early 80's when all Class D AM stations were upgraded in daytime power limits by the FCC. Prior to that time, WAVI was a pea shooter at 250 watts. Still, the signal wasn't nearly as bad as today, with the added interference on AM.

The "due to the archaic rules" signoff was certainly in place by 1980 or so. Bud truly believed the rules were archaic and badly in need of revision. Sad to see when the FCC finally got around to it, WAVI's "nighttime" power allocation was going to be something like...4 watts, hardly enough to be heard much past Cincinnati Street and Edwin C. Moses.

 

[gr8oldies]

Just curious where on E. Stroop Rd. WKTR was. International Broadcasting School (predecessor to ICB) was at 1212 E Stroop (Stroop and Marshall area as I recall..there was a donut shop next door).

A lot of daytimers used the "because of the archaic rules" sign-off. There was an organization called the Daytime Broadcasters Association which lobbied for nighttime authority for daytimers. I believe the President was one Ray Livesay, owner of WERT AM/FM in Van Wert. Ray's solution was 9 kHz spacing such as in Europe, with several new channels which would become "graveyards" for daytimers. (701 WLW, anyone?).

 

[kirkiefan]

Just curious where on E. Stroop Rd. WKTR was. International Broadcasting School (predecessor to ICB) was at 1212 E Stroop (Stroop and Marshall area as I recall..there was a donut shop next door).

A lot of daytimers used the "because of the archaic rules" sign-off. There was an organization called the Daytime Broadcasters Association which lobbied for nighttime authority for daytimers. I believe the President was one Ray Livesay, owner of WERT AM/FM in Van Wert. Ray's solution was 9 kHz spacing such as in Europe, with several new channels which would become "graveyards" for daytimers. (701 WLW, anyone?).

1630 East Stroop Rd. off of Wilmington Pike (as my memory serves me)

 

[BRobertsRadioGeek]

Bob Roberts,Michelle Phillips,Dale Grimm,Marco Simmons,Joe Madigan and Brad Lovett put in so many hours to keep it going..the oldies format was their catylist and passion to keep it going. However, when Bob was let go in the spring of 2006,it was all downhill from that point on...for letting Bob go was Urban Light's worst mistake along with not putting some much needed upkeep and promotion money into the station....a car won't run on water..neither can a radio station.


I have no idea who kirkiefan is...but for the kind words, I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

 

[northernlightsmedia]

Ok I have not posted for a while but some truths need to be clarified. First of all the oldies format I love 50s and 60s too but it is not a viable format and has not been for a while. Ad agencies local or nation al will not buy time, their research has showed them that the numbers are not their. THere may be listeners for the format but they just are buying enough. Format was aproblem with WULM, the other is advertising support in the community and support for a community voice. SSpringfield has a history of letting its media go TV26, 102.9 and others. The local advertiser must support the station and at this time they are not. I will say that there are some very wonderful advertisers tht do, that beleive in localism in radio the problem there are not enough of these people. I here everybody talking about if I ran the station, if I was in charge. Everyone knows the station is being sold it is closer than you think. Those of you who say you love radio, want radio to stay local then get together and put your checkbooks together ( iWILL PUT MINE IN) AND buy it! If not then stop posting your comments and just let the station go!

 

[KFodor]

Northern Lights:

I can appreciate some...not all...but some of your comments.

The facts, though are: WULM (oldies) gained no traction whatsoever with any measurable audience. (Sorry, Bob...I like you and respect you personally, but these are facts.) It never even got a 0.1 12 plus in any Arbitron survey the whole time it was on the air. (Phone calls from record collectors are hard to prove to advertisers.) Yes, the original "oldies" format is unsellable to agencies today. However, in a city such as Springfield, had more time been spent on cultivating relationships with local advertisers, and giving the station a solid programming foundation of targeted music, (and no, I'm not saying "250 songs" here) along with local news and information, it might have been able to gain a footing with the local, direct advertisers who could have kept it afloat. This did not happen.

And yes, it could also have fulfilled it's suggested status of trying to "save souls". I was amazed the station didn't go after some religious programming (read: preacher features) that could have put thousands of dollars on the books for only the sacrifice of some weekend and fringe daytime airtime.

102.9 did quite well, Northern Lights, when Bob Yonts owned it. Springfield doesn't "let it's media go", the media leaves, because more money can be made in the big city, if you get an ownership that desires to cultivate that money.

The problem with "all of us buying the station" is: it's not worth what the asking price was. I know people who talked to the bank. Neither I, nor any other sensible buyer would have taken on the hundreds of thousands of reported dollars of debt. If someone else wants to throw the money at it, fine. They're gonna need deep pockets, though, if they decide to assume said reported debt.

It was a good try. Too bad no one really knew how to run a radio station there.

 

[northernlightsmedia]

Jason was glad to see your post and that someone talks sense about the oldies format. I will disagree with you about Springfield letting there media go and we can just disagree on that. The Yontzs tried many years to sale their stations because of declining advertisers in Springfield. They had to really hard sell Urban Light to even buy the failing AM. You are right when you talk about community focus, that has been the downfall. The past management not ownership failed to click with the community. No one can say that Eli Williams is not a community man. Eli is on so many committees & boards & is very well conected and is one of the mover and shakers in Springfield. Anyone can see that by spending time with the man ( I have). The failure was in station management not connecting with ALL the community. A Station Managers job is more that decided on a format or who will be on the air. He should be a liason to the community, connected, belong to civic organizations. Community focus groups should have been formed to find out what the community and potential advertisers wanted in a local station. A Station Manager has to be an active salesperson also, in a small market a manager must be everything to the station. Tool much time was spent on trying to get a long dead format to rise again. There is a reason why the larger station are not doing oldies, and it isn't to screw over the people who like the music. Many Radio Managers in radio today have a love for the Oldies Format but they also live in reality and know it just doesn't work. Anyone who looks at doing oldies radio on a commercial station had better have the money to make up the revenue that it most certainly will lose. I think also past management at WULM were more worried about being on the air and being personalities. I know it is sometimes necessary for shifts to be filled but the manager should be out connecting. Sales people should be out generating sales and leaving air shifts to the jocks. When it comes to the money owed , well there has been many rumors spread by individuals who would like to see the station go dark because of revenge. I know of another station who also proposed a sale and the amount that was being asked by the current ownership was quite reasonable. With the right management, right format and staff that is community focused without their own personal agenda 1600 could and would make money. The problem is it would have to be with new ownership.

 

[KFodor]

Northern Lights:

It wasn't the format that was wrong. That was the "style". It wasn't "style" that was the big problem. You almost nailed the problem on the head. It was "substance"... (namely: the execution of the station.) That coupled with some of the things you mentioned in your post.

As far as the end of the Yontz ownership was concerned, there's no doubt that Springfield's ad money was increasingly being "gobbled up", if you will, by stations in the Dayton market (both TV and radio). However, there was then and still is, room for a "local" station. Smiling Bob knew how to run such a station, and for decades, that station was a license to print money. I know people in Springfield who would tell you...Ronnie wasn't as adept at it as Smiley was. And I also suspect he may have been losing interest in running the Springfield operation toward the end. Running an AM standalone in a small town is a very delicate and tricky thing.

"Oldies" could have done the job, executed correctly and combined with the right other elements. It wouldn't have made the kind of money Smilin' Bob made. But, it could have been profitable. It just didn't gel for Eli and for that, a missed opportunity for the citizens of Springfield.

 

[nmoore6676]

Northern Lights:

It wasn't the format that was wrong. That was the "style". It wasn't "style" that was the big problem. You almost nailed the problem on the head. It was "substance"... (namely: the execution of the station.) That coupled with some of the things you mentioned in your post.

As far as the end of the Yontz ownership was concerned, there's no doubt that Springfield's ad money was increasingly being "gobbled up", if you will, by stations in the Dayton market (both TV and radio). However, there was then and still is, room for a "local" station. Smiling Bob knew how to run such a station, and for decades, that station was a license to print money. I know people in Springfield who would tell you...Ronnie wasn't as adept at it as Smiley was. And I also suspect he may have been losing interest in running the Springfield operation toward the end. Running an AM standalone in a small town is a very delicate and tricky thing.

"Oldies" could have done the job, executed correctly and combined with the right other elements. It wouldn't have made the kind of money Smilin' Bob made. But, it could have been profitable. It just didn't gel for Eli and for that, a missed opportunity for the citizens of Springfield.

I agree that Smilin' Bob knew how to run small market radio, he kept the station in Springfield way back in the fifties and he turned it into a cash cow for years. I always believed the sale of 102.9 was needed to settle off the Champion City corporation and transfer the 1600 AM property to Ray Broadcasting (Ron Yontz). In this century a 1KW AM in a small city is not an easy thing and maybe even the much revered Smilin' Bob might have had problems. I think the Yontzes may have also lost enthusiasm when their son who worked at WBLY was killed in a traffic accident on his way to work. But he also sold his broadcast properties in Georgia as well so maybe it was the pressures of the job as well.

There are still some small broadcast owners, notably Joe Mullins in Xenia and Saul Levine her in Los Angeles who get it and understand serving the community. But these people are becoming rarer every day. And in the end the onus is on the advertisers who willingly fork over their dollars to the Clear Channels of the world ignoring the locally owned station which could better serve their intended audience.