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2007 Atlanta radio station revenues, courtesy of BIA Financial

Are we wrong on The Zone? They did $13.8 mil revenue beating the crap out of The Fan ($4.4 mil), their programming rival. In addition, their revenue puts them up with the Project and Q100 whose ratings are more than double that of The Zone. One has to wonder, how much of that is Tech (football and basketball), Radio One (Stews)* and your playoff bound Atlanta Hawks money? Is Brisket that good of a hustler that he can get local businesses to spend their ad dollars on a daytime sports station in a market that can barely support one daytime sports station, that is not his?

And how about my future station, DAVE-FM doing so well through the horrid Michelle Engle regime? She drove away listeners but not ad dollars. I guess you could say there was not "Widepsread Panic" amongst the sales force (I kill me). I guess the sales staff was really hitting the pavement. I can't wait to work with you talented people.

* During 2007, The Stews were syndicated by Radio One. They have switched to Sporting News. I put this in so some nimrod, I'm looking at you Clark Kent, doesn't attempt to correct me.
 
We are relying on the Zone to provide that information? It is not like they showed the financials. They put a number on the street to pump them up. They do hestle and sell a spot wherever dead air exists but I am not sure I could believe that number. The station is going downhill quickly Brisket is such a tool. He thinks of himself as the Puppetmaster pulling all the strings?
 
The number probably isn't that far off. Remember the Zone has a huge expense line. When you add up the lease to Lincoln Financial, their office space, their salaries, (huge airstaff, office staff, promotional staff etc), insurance, marketing etc...They probably need close to 10 million to break even.

That is why regardless of what the ratings say, Steak, Dimino, Bell, Stews et al remain on the air. As long as the sales staff brings home the bacon, they are reluctant to mess with the mix too much.

My guess is despite the declining ratings, the long time advertisers are not yet seeing declining results so they continue to buy.
 
The Zone was billing around $11 million some years back so I'm guessing the 2007 number is not far off. But they've always way outbilled their ratings.

Andrew Saltzman, co-owner and GM, is really a seller, and an aggressive one. He once told me that when The Zone came to town, the station was able to forge close relationships with several big Atlanta companies, including Home Depot, that heavily support the station regardless of the ratings. Andrew made a cottage industry of complaining about me to a couple of my agency clients whenever I didn't consider the station, and I'm talking female-targeted buys such as the Aquarium.

Then there's Neal Maziar, now president of Big League Broadcasting. Although Neal has been concentrating more on St. Louis for the past year, he was at WSB for years and years, and he's known and respected among advertisers. Of course, Neal has a lot of client relationships.

Additionally, The Zone does a lot of business by making the buy a part of a bigger sports marketing program. They present concepts, which might include a contest, a feature sponsorship or tickets.

Ratings notwithstanding, The Zone has always killed 680 in ad dollars. Of course, now that The Fan is showing up well in some important male demos, that could change to an extent.

I don't know what kind of proof stations have to provide to BIA. I know that Miller-Kaplan is considered more reliable than BIA. But, I doubt The Zone could really exaggerate the billing numbers more than a little.
 
What's a million and a half among friends.

Also, are the Zone's ratings really declining. the 12+ number is fairly stable. IT is just the gap between them and the Fan that makes it look like they are declining.
 
The 12 plus numbers have always been relatively small and thus the flucuations do not seem large and would make the number look stable. However, their male 25-54 shares have declined significantly over the last year. That is the bread and butter demo for sports.
 
No one is willing to say this but I think most of that 11 million the Zone earned last year is in Cheetah bucks.

Congratulations - by the way - to the talented Doomquist whose jejune programming has driven GST's revenues down by 25% since '05.
 
Remember too that trade dollars are counted as revenue. The Zone does lots of trade in exchange for on air advertising. That can include things like home improvement work, pools, monthly dining tabs, free office furniture, cars.
There are a lot of ways that a station can make those numbers sing, but the advertiser did not pay any cash.
Thanks for pointing out the 12+ numbers. I can't get over the amount of people on here that quote 12+ numbers for the sports stations. It makes no sense. The problem 790 faces is that 680 is a top 5 males 25-54 station now from 6am to 7pm.
They have been one for almost a year in morning drive and for close to three years in afternoon drive. The gap between 680 and 790 is now huge. That will definitely affect the bottom line as things move forward as the emperor obviosuly has no clothes. 790 needs a major boost. They have gotten stale and complacent and need to stop telling everyone how good they are when the audience clearly has chosen their top competitor. Start doing the things that made the station fun again. I used to listen to the Bottom Line and it was great. At some point Dimino actually started to believe that he was the Mike Francesa of the South. The difference is that Francesa has the audience to back it up, Dimino does not.
Their St. Louis foray has truned into a huge financial disaster, which is using Atlanta funds to keep them afloat. They are facing a lawsuit for violating FCC policy with the St. Louis Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan. They have had to fire at least half the staff. They barely show in the ratings.
I truly believe that you will see the Dickey brothers circle like sharks and put 790 out of their misery. 790 used to be able to say they were the top sports choice in town. Now they are barely above a Mexican music station. They somehow allowed 680 to bury them, much to the dismay of guys like me that wanted to have two options for sports.
 
atlsportsnut said:
Remember too that trade dollars are counted as revenue. The Zone does lots of trade in exchange for on air advertising. That can include things like home improvement work, pools, monthly dining tabs, free office furniture, cars.
There are a lot of ways that a station can make those numbers sing, but the advertiser did not pay any cash.
Thanks for pointing out the 12+ numbers. I can't get over the amount of people on here that quote 12+ numbers for the sports stations. It makes no sense. The problem 790 faces is that 680 is a top 5 males 25-54 station now from 6am to 7pm.
They have been one for almost a year in morning drive and for close to three years in afternoon drive. The gap between 680 and 790 is now huge. That will definitely affect the bottom line as things move forward as the emperor obviosuly has no clothes. 790 needs a major boost. They have gotten stale and complacent and need to stop telling everyone how good they are when the audience clearly has chosen their top competitor. Start doing the things that made the station fun again. I used to listen to the Bottom Line and it was great. At some point Dimino actually started to believe that he was the Mike Francesa of the South. The difference is that Francesa has the audience to back it up, Dimino does not.
Their St. Louis foray has truned into a huge financial disaster, which is using Atlanta funds to keep them afloat. They are facing a lawsuit for violating FCC policy with the St. Louis Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan. They have had to fire at least half the staff. They barely show in the ratings.
I truly believe that you will see the Dickey brothers circle like sharks and put 790 out of their misery. 790 used to be able to say they were the top sports choice in town. Now they are barely above a Mexican music station. They somehow allowed 680 to bury them, much to the dismay of guys like me that wanted to have two options for sports.
Click to expand...

You give a pretty fair assesment of their situation and I agree about their complacency and egos. At the same time, when your revenue is so tied to talent on the air (endorsements, promotional appearances etc) and your revenue continues to be exceptional, I can understand being very reluctant to rock the boat and make any wholesale changes.

When the mortages on your large homes, and having the nut covered on a bad experiment in the midwest is dependent on that revenue stream in Atlanta, the safe play is not to upset the apple cart. But if one of their key partners demands significantly lower rates based on the fact that 680 still charges less for spots, or worse if that partner walks away, the domino effect could have them in a heap of trouble a lot faster than they think.
 
Great points.
I know that the sales team has done amazing work in the past. I have also heard from more than one person that they are playing the old, ratings don't really matter card in their sales process.
That is something that only stations without ratings try to pull.
Zoneguy, it has to be killing them. To think that Rude, with no sports background is killing them so soundly is a statement as to their decline. Moving the Stews was reportedly a BLB decision, not the choice of Ryan and Doug. If that is the case, they let their egos get in the way because Afternoon Saloon is not major market drive time radio.
 
Without good ratings, it's hard to get agency business. But to a lot of local businesses without agencies, relationships mean a lot more than ratings. So does having the cash register ring. Some business owners want to be on the station that they listen to.
 
atlsportsnut said:
Great points.
I know that the sales team has done amazing work in the past. I have also heard from more than one person that they are playing the old, ratings don't really matter card in their sales process.
That is something that only stations without ratings try to pull.
Zoneguy, it has to be killing them. To think that Rude, with no sports background is killing them so soundly is a statement as to their decline. Moving the Stews was reportedly a BLB decision, not the choice of Ryan and Doug. If that is the case, they let their egos get in the way because Afternoon Saloon is not major market drive time radio.
Click to expand...

Wasn't the move of Ryan and Doug more driven off of Sporting News Radio putting them live in the 1 - 4 slot creating an additional revenue stream vs. them just being local?
 
RTibbs said:
atlsportsnut said:
Great points.
I know that the sales team has done amazing work in the past. I have also heard from more than one person that they are playing the old, ratings don't really matter card in their sales process.
That is something that only stations without ratings try to pull.
Zoneguy, it has to be killing them. To think that Rude, with no sports background is killing them so soundly is a statement as to their decline. Moving the Stews was reportedly a BLB decision, not the choice of Ryan and Doug. If that is the case, they let their egos get in the way because Afternoon Saloon is not major market drive time radio.
Click to expand...

Wasn't the move of Ryan and Doug more driven off of Sporting News Radio putting them live in the 1 - 4 slot creating an additional revenue stream vs. them just being local?
Click to expand...
I don't know how much additional revenue Big League gets from the Stews. Tibbs is correct. They are syndicated which i take to mean they use the 790 studios but are employees of Sporting News. One would imagine that 790 The Zone gets the normal syndication fee that any other station would get. Can someone confirm?

If advertisers are happy with the attention, promotion and increased business they get form advertisnig on the Zone, then the ratings do not matter a bit.
 
I do not know the particulars of the Sporting News deal with BLB. BLB does have a propietary right to the Two Live Stews show. So Sporting News is probably giving them something, cash or a cut on sales to use Ryan and Doug. Sporting News is also paying Ryan and Doug's salaries and probably their producer's as well, relieving BLB of some payroll weight.

At the same time, they are free to sell the Stews promotionally in Atlanta. So the deal makes a lot of sense on the surface.

As for the Afternoon Saloon, they are taking a shot at winning back the white guy audience they lost in afternoon drive while the Stews held down that slot. So far the experiement does not seem to be working. But, might as well try with guys you have under contract first before having to look outside and spend even more money.
 
My observations on the Afternoon Saloon is that Brandon just does not fit. He is the little brother struggling to keep up with the other two. Also I think Brnadon and Chuck always acting like a wet blanket on Mike's comedic bits isn't helping. Play along guys for the better of the show. At least on Mayhem Steak and Nick played along and Dimino either did a little but or at least stayed quiet.

Get rid of Brandon and Woolvy and replace with Bob Neal and Hometeam. Hometeam's slightly expanded from the role he had on Dimino's show.
 
RTibbs said:
My observations on the Afternoon Saloon is that Brandon just does not fit. He is the little brother struggling to keep up with the other two. Also I think Brnadon and Chuck always acting like a wet blanket on Mike's comedic bits isn't helping. Play along guys for the better of the show. At least on Mayhem Steak and Nick played along and Dimino either did a little but or at least stayed quiet.

Get rid of Brandon and Woolvy and replace with Bob Neal and Hometeam. Hometeam's slightly expanded from the role he had on Dimino's show.
Click to expand...

If Chuck Oliver had his way, he would talk Auburn football every day, no matter what else was happeneing. This mentality really hurts during down times. A morning or afternoon show has to be diverse in its topics. If nothing is happeing, like this week, you need comic relief. That's what Mike Bell brings. In addition, he is the fastest on the board there is in Atlanta. He can have a sound drop on the air in nanoseconds. I think BLB is just stringing Oliver along until his contract runs out. The guy has been bounced off of every program and time slot there is.

Hey, why not put Brisket and Oliver together and see what happens?

Chuck: I now it's mid-April but I don't think the offensive line at Auburn is gonna hold up, especially against those tough defenses at Florida. I am realy worried.

Brisket: Baby Sophie was with me at Stats and she told me that Dantanna's has better food. I took the teething ring from I. Roth and Sons out of her mouth and told her she couldn't get it back till she worked out with me at Main Event Gym in Marietta. She started crying right there so I took her to the Cheetah, game over - Cheetah, and we met some of the ladies. I ran into Sandy Golden (Hey Now) and she said this was no place for a child. Sandy was probably right so we went to The Palm where I got my meal comp'ed. Sophie had to pay. 404-233-7979, star 790 is a free call on the AT&T zone phone. Atlanta's Sports Leader 790 The Zone.
 
Neil Millman said:
RTibbs said:
My observations on the Afternoon Saloon is that Brandon just does not fit. He is the little brother struggling to keep up with the other two. Also I think Brnadon and Chuck always acting like a wet blanket on Mike's comedic bits isn't helping. Play along guys for the better of the show. At least on Mayhem Steak and Nick played along and Dimino either did a little but or at least stayed quiet.

Get rid of Brandon and Woolvy and replace with Bob Neal and Hometeam. Hometeam's slightly expanded from the role he had on Dimino's show.
Click to expand...

If Chuck Oliver had his way, he would talk Auburn football every day, no matter what else was happeneing. This mentality really hurts during down times. A morning or afternoon show has to be diverse in its topics. If nothing is happeing, like this week, you need comic relief. That's what Mike Bell brings. In addition, he is the fastest on the board there is in Atlanta. He can have a sound drop on the air in nanoseconds. I think BLB is just stringing Oliver along until his contract runs out. The guy has been bounced off of every program and time slot there is.

Hey, why not put Brisket and Oliver together and see what happens?

Chuck: I now it's mid-April but I don't think the offensive line at Auburn is gonna hold up, especially against those tough defenses at Florida. I am realy worried.

Brisket: Baby Sophie was with me at Stats and she told me that Dantanna's has better food. I took the teething ring from I. Roth and Sons out of her mouth and told her she couldn't get it back till she worked out with me at Main Event Gym in Marietta. She started crying right there so I took her to the Cheetah, game over - Cheetah, and we met some of the ladies. I ran into Sandy Golden (Hey Now) and she said this was no place for a child. Sandy was probably right so we went to The Palm where I got my meal comp'ed. Sophie had to pay. 404-233-7979, star 790 is a free call on the AT&T zone phone. Atlanta's Sports Leader 790 The Zone.
Click to expand...

NICELY DONE, NEIL!!!

Except ... you only mentioned Stats ONE time!!!

And you're probably listening a little TOO much! ;D
 
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