50,000 Watt Stations on North American Clear Channel Frequencies

[cyberdad]

I assume that the 600 station is not running anywhere near the power they did at one time. I haven't heard it in a while. It doesn't enter into NIF calculations of US stations, but is required to be protected as a 150 kW Class A, as evidenced by recently filed applications.

How well does WMT come in in your area day and night, radioman148?

I remember the blaster that the Cubans used to have on 600. Audio was pretty lousy, but the signal overpowered everything else on the channel where I am....which is about 30 miles west-northwest of radioman.

As for WMT, it's weak but definitely listenable here daytime on a good radio. They still send quite a bit of their nighttime juice to the east, but by the time the signal gets here it gets easily lost in the mess at night...although more often than not you can still hear it.

WTMJ was also discussed in the thread The deal here is when they moved the towers from Wauwatosa (west of the city) to near Union Grove (south of the city) and increased to 10kw night, they tightened the pattern and we effectively lost signal to Illinois. IIRC per FM Scan....there's now the equiv of about 400 watts aimed at me. I think it used to be around 1kw before. (Daytime signal....now 50kw directional vs 5kw ND is essentially not affected here). Sidebar point...I spent 2 nights this past week at a conference in downtown Milwaukee. WTMJ easily had the best local signal day/night in my hotel.

 

[radioman148]

I assume that the 600 station is not running anywhere near the power they did at one time. I haven't heard it in a while. It doesn't enter into NIF calculations of US stations, but is required to be protected as a 150 kW Class A, as evidenced by recently filed applications.

How well does WMT come in in your area day and night, radioman148?

I remember the blaster that the Cubans used to have on 600. Audio was pretty lousy, but the signal overpowered everything else on the channel where I am....which is about 30 miles west-northwest of radioman.

As for WMT, it's weak but definitely listenable here daytime on a good radio. They still send quite a bit of their nighttime juice to the east, but by the time the signal gets here it gets easily lost in the mess at night...although more often than not you can still hear it.

WTMJ was also discussed in the thread The deal here is when they moved the towers from Wauwatosa (west of the city) to near Union Grove (south of the city) and increased to 10kw night, they tightened the pattern and we effectively lost signal to Illinois. IIRC per FM Scan....there's now the equiv of about 400 watts aimed at me. I think it used to be around 1kw before. (Daytime signal....now 50kw directional vs 5kw ND is essentially not affected here). Sidebar point...I spent 2 nights this past week at a conference in downtown Milwaukee. WTMJ easily had the best local signal day/night in my hotel.

At my location in Highland Park, Il, WTMJ seems stronger during the day than when they were 5KW
ND. At night like Cyberdad the signal here is greatly reduced.

 

[jd]

I remember the blaster that the Cubans used to have on 600.

Yes, it was strong but sounded awful. There was also one on 1160 and another on 1040 (in English most of the time), neither of which lasted all that long.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

The only part of the WTMJ day pattern that is less than the 5 kW ND inverse field is toward a cochannel station in Kentucky, WTUV, near Louisville. WTMJ is somewhat closer to Highland Park and Chicago from near Union Grove, so it may be stronger.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Has anyone here ever logged WMT on the West Coast or California? It's one of those stations that enters into or close to the 25% RSS calculations in both the Eastern and Western United States.

 

[radioman148]

I remember the blaster that the Cubans used to have on 600.

Yes, it was strong but sounded awful. There was also one on 1160 and another on 1040 (in English most of the time), neither of which lasted all that long.

The modulation on those Cuban AMs was terrible to say the least.

 

[KR4BD]

Has anyone here ever logged WMT on the West Coast or California? It's one of those stations that enters into or close to the 25% RSS calculations in both the Eastern and Western United States.

I logged WMT many times in Southern California in the early 1960's. It is a "regular" here in Lexington KY at night despite having WVLK-590 only 6 miles away....BUT I sit right in the heart of WVLK's nighttime nule toward Atlanta and at times, WVLK is almost "not there" and covered with Omaha and Cubans!

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

I've only been in Lexington once, in 1970, and that was somewhere near I-75 traveling though. I remember seeing a three tower in line self supporting array. I think it was the station on 1300, now WLXG.

I think WVLK and WLAP have parallelograms.

Did KOGO have to be off to hear WMT? Seems like KOGO has very shallow nulls. WMT's only sharp null is toward WREC Memphis.

 

[KR4BD]

The three self-supporting, in-line towers on the NW side of Lexington are WLXG-1300. Their night pattern is to the SE covering the city with a kilowatt. About two miles west of WLXG is WVLK with 5 towers (2 day@5kw, 4 night@1kw). WVLK-590 has some serious nulls in their night pattern in various parts of the city. Their main lobe goes to the SW toward Nashville. To a lesser extent, WLAP-630 (xmtr located NE of town, 4 towers day/night) also has some minor coverage issues at night in the city proper. WLAP goes very well in the North-South directions day(5kw) and night (1kw).

Out to California...

KOGO (formerly KFSG, I think) on 600 was not very strong where I was (Riverside, CA) at night in the early 60's. We had a semi-local on 590 (then KFXM) but you could hear 600 clearly after midnight some Sundays when KFXM would go off for maintenance. Also, KFXM was off the side of a loop antenna, so their signal could be tamed to some extent at night. At the time I had a very good receiver probably equivalent to an HQ-180. It was a 1937 vintage RCA Model ACR-111 with 2 RF stages, 3 IF stages and 16 tubes! It was a monster which I wish I still owned!

 

[oldiesfan6479]

KOGO (formerly KFSG, I think) on 600...

KFSD.

KFSG was Aimee Semple McPherson's station in El Lay way back when she fought against
the "minions of Satan" on the Federal Radio Commission. Later a time share on 1120(?)
then 1150 with KRKD, which became KIIS(AM), among other calls.

 

[KR4BD]

Sorry....I meant KFSD! Yes, I remember when 1150 in LA was KRKD and KFSG.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Well, the time I heard KPMC 1560, now KNZR, in Michigan it was on a 6 tube 1938 Westinghouse with just a long wire antenna. It was after WQXR/WQEW signed off at 12:07 AM. It had a great sounding amplifier and electromagnetic speaker. I used to plug other mono solid state audio sources into it to play them, using the grid of the preamplifier tube and the chassis ground, and a little series LCR to block the grid voltage from tube to the source, enhance the freqeuncy response, match it better, and eliminate the possibility of ground loops. It sounded great and nothing ever got burned out. I was probably just lucky.

 

[cyberdad]

The only part of the WTMJ day pattern that is less than the 5 kW ND inverse field is toward a cochannel station in Kentucky, WTUV, near Louisville. WTMJ is somewhat closer to Highland Park and Chicago from near Union Grove, so it may be stronger.

Let's not let the fact that we keep veering off topic spoil some good conversations.... ;D

I think WTMJ's nighttime pattern was originally designed to protect St. Petersburg (then WSUN). Perhaps later, WDNC and WJDX might have been part of the deal, but I sort of doubt it. The Louisville 620 was a 500 watt daytimer for quite a while (as WTMT), so I think it's pretty safe to assume no other station needs to account for them at all. That said, they do have the good fortune of being in the void that results from Tampa and Milwaukee protecting each other.

As posted previously, I'm about 35 miles southwest from WTMJ's stick. The nighttime signal has become pretty awful here, with CKRM the most frequent intruder (despite a supposed null toward Milwaukee).

 

[jd]

I think WTMJ's nighttime pattern was originally designed to protect St. Petersburg (then WSUN).

You're right, cyberdad, this thread has some interesting side discussions! On this point, though, it was the other way around. WTMJ was the station that demanded protection for their signal even before the FCC was created. The situation was historically significant, in fact, since it was the first instance of an AM station (WFLA/WSUN) using a directional antenna in the U.S. Barry Mishkind wrote a great article about it a few years back: www.oldradio.com/archives/stations/tsp/WSUN-WFLA.pdf

 

[cyberdad]

Interesting stuff. My assumption was incorrect...and in a big way, complete with historical significance. I always stand to be corrected, and....as usual...I'm glad someone did. Thanks jd!

 

[jd]

No problem, I welcome corrections also. I had heard the WTMJ story several years ago and this discussion prompted me to check it out for the particulars once again. There are lot of notable radio historians out there and Barry is one of the best. I'd also include Donna Halper and fellow posters Scott Fybush and David Eduardo on the "A" list. I'm no youngster by any means but I discover something new about radio almost every day, a lot of it right here on these boards.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Regarding Windsor's CBE/1550:

Yes, it is going away after the simulcast period with now-testing CBEW/97.5.

When I noted that in the Mighty Blog(tm), I actually got an E-mail from a CBC Windsor staffer saying that 1550 would NOT sign off. I pointed him to the CRTC decision re: CBEW, and he asked around...and the station's managing director actually wrote me back to confirm that they would have to take 1550 dark.

If they're unhappy with 97.5, they may well mount one or two more FM relays, but they likely are not going to petition the CRTC to keep 1550.

Who could relocate there? I don't see any likely prospects. CKLW and CKWW wouldn't move there from either 800 or 580, among other things.

 

[cyberdad]

Barry is one of the best. I'd also include Donna Halper and fellow posters Scott Fybush and David Eduardo on the "A" list. I'm no youngster by any means but I discover something new about radio almost every day, a lot of it right here on these boards.

+1 on all counts. I definitely agree with your "A List".

 

[stationless listener]

I wonder about KTRB. The last I read is that the Athletics are rumored to purchase that station. It was recently put into receivership. Now they have to have a nighttime directional signal to protect Denver's KOA.

Does anyone think that it's worth having it, considering its limitations?

 

[davideduardo]

I wonder about KTRB. The last I read is that the Athletics are rumored to purchase that station. It was recently put into receivership. Now they have to have a nighttime directional signal to protect Denver's KOA.

Does anyone think that it's worth having it, considering its limitations?

The main protection is Canada (Canadian clear) and Mexico (XEMO) on 860. KOA is on 850.