940 CINW & 690 CINF Montreal to leave the air on January 29th

[mjlarochelle]

The reality, as Mr. Fybush so well put it, is that the major markets will only have one or two viable AM stations nowadays, and this is true in the United States as well. In Detroit, the U.S. market I'm most familiar with, WJR 760 and WWJ 950 both do very well in the ratings. The rest of the AM stations have pretty much fallen off the map, especially since WXYT 1270 began simulcasting on a full-power FM.

Some quick ratings for AM across Canada:

Montreal Anglo
CJAD (800) 26.3
CINW (940) 2.6
CKGM (990) 2.0

Montreal Franco
CKAC (730) 5.7
CINF (690) 1.1

Ottawa Anglo
CFRA (580) 11.1
CFGO (1200) 2.7
CIWW (1310) 1.7

Toronto
CFTR (680) 8.0
CFRB (1010) 4.2
CFMJ (640) 2.7
CJCL (590) 2.7
CFZM (740) 2.3
CHUM (1050) 0.1

Hamilton
CHML (900) 6.8
CKOC (1150) 4.5
CHAM (820) 1.1

St. Catharines
CKTB (610) 5.7

Kitchener-Waterloo
CKGL (570) 6.8

London
CJBK (1290) 4.1
CFPL (980) 3.1
CKSL (1410) 1.9

Windsor
CKLW (800) 18.8
CBE (1550) 4.3
CKWW (580) 2.3

Winnipeg
CJOB (680) 16.2
CBW (990)* 11.3
CFRW (1290) 2.1

Calgary
CHQR (770) 9.9
CBR (1010)* 7.3
CFAC (960) 3.7
CFFR (660) 3.3
CKMX (1090) 2.5

Edmonton
CHED (630) 11.6
CFCW (790) 5.3
CBX (740)* 4.1
CFRN (1260) 2.4
CHQT (880) 1.9

Vancouver
CKNW (980) 13.8
CBU (690)* 6.9
CISL (650) 4.7
CKWX (1130) 4.4
CKST (1040) 3.9
CFTE (1410) 1.3
CHMJ (730) 0.8

Victoria
CFAX (1070) 13.5

* These are the CBC stations with nested FM transmitters, so some of this listening would be on FM.


As is seen from these numbers, some markets have one or two dominant AM stations but the others aren't pulling much in. I'd expect Rogers to do something with 1310 in Ottawa, most likely attempt a news/talk/sports format - the station has the Blue Jays which of course Rogers owns. I don't have as much confidence in the future of some of the other low-rated AM stations across the country, especially CKSL in London.

 

[gr8oldies]

Looks like CKLW is still the Big 8 in Windsor only. I'd have thought CFRB would have done better in Toronto. CKZM is popular enough among DXers but a 2 share at home isn't that impressive.

 

[azumanga]

Windsor
CKLW (800) 18.8
CBE (1550) 4.3
CKWW (580) 2.3

* These are the CBC stations with nested FM transmitters, so some of this listening would be on FM.

Add CBE to that list -- they have a repeater on 102.3 FM in Windsor. Of course, CBE has gotten the green light from the CRTC to move to 97.5 FM, which will close down 1550 and 102.3. (Great for Windsorites, but another nail in the coffin for Michigan radio -- I always listened to CBE in my car when I visited my relatives in Bay City.)

Looks like CKLW is still the Big 8 in Windsor only. I'd have thought CFRB would have done better in Toronto. CKZM is popular enough among DXers but a 2 share at home isn't that impressive.

As for CHUM, its 0.1 rating practically has the station on life support, especially since it is now a simulcast of Cable Pulse 24. How does this compare with the ratings it had when it had oldies, or even the ill-fated Team format?

 

[mimo]

These stations are Canadian clear channel facilities--but do they necessarily have to stay in Montreal?

I can imagine several AM stations in Ottawa/Hull that could make the most of a big signal class A facility. Wonder if the CRTC would entertain a move from an AM-unfriendly market like Montreal to a market like Ottawa/Hull that still has a significant demand for programming on the AM band?

While there is still a demand for AM listening here, as far as taking up either 690 or 940, I don't know about that. We only have 4 operating AM frequencies here...580, 1200 and 1310 each run 50,000 watts while newcomer 1670 is 1000 full time. We lost a 50,000 watt AM at 1150 last year to 104.7, which has a signal that doesn't reliably reach the entire city (or even it's target area) that well at all. As a result the ratings have tumbled from where they were when on AM with a talk format. The 3 big players probably wouldn't want to move, especially since we still have 540, 630, 920, 970 and 1250 allocated to the city, and those frequencies haven't been filled yet. 630 was actually allocated to nearby Smiths Falls, but for all intensive purposes was a local signal for us here. It's FM replacement barely hits us at all.

We do have an old nearby frequency about to go active again. 1350 was licensed to the valley, but is being reactivated here in Ottawa with a 1000 watt signal for a community French language catholic stations. There are still people wanting to get into the radio market in Montreal, and AM is the only place left to do that.

 

[davideduardo]

they could cut power to 1/10th of 50Kw, and cover most of western hemisphere at night and ontario/quebec daytime, near 5 MHz. save on electricity too

The only way that would work is if you're WLW back in the 1930s, broadcasting at 500kw. 5kw doesn't have much of a range by day -- maybe a 100 to 150 miles or so from the site, depending on terrain and ground conductivity, and maybe 500 to 1000 miles at night.

I think Carmen was suggesting operation on 5 kw on the tropical bands near 5 MHz. The only way most medium wave stations could have less audience is by moving to shortwave, where there haven't been any listeners for decades.

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

Have to be impressed by the number of Yanks who have contributed to this thread. It's also left its mark on the Philly radio board. I'm a radio junkie from long ago, but in all honesty, if you gave me an AM, I'd have to think long and hard about what to do with it. Like every othe radio wonk, I have plenty of ideas. The reality is it's an uphill slog.

 

[mjlarochelle]

Add CBE to that list -- they have a repeater on 102.3 FM in Windsor. Of course, CBE has gotten the green light from the CRTC to move to 97.5 FM, which will close down 1550 and 102.3. (Great for Windsorites, but another nail in the coffin for Michigan radio -- I always listened to CBE in my car when I visited my relatives in Bay City.)

As for CHUM, its 0.1 rating practically has the station on life support, especially since it is now a simulcast of Cable Pulse 24. How does this compare with the ratings it had when it had oldies, or even the ill-fated Team format?

CBE has good extended coverage in some areas, but a friend of mine works in Dearborn and can't get the station there. He has to stream CBC online to get CBC Radio One there. I've tried to listen to 1550 in Chatham-Kent a couple times and I've always found the signal "muffled" compared to the other Windsor/Detroit AMs.

Radio 2 (89.9) apparently covers Metro Detroit very well, and George Strombopolous was even promoting that station's reach into Detroit on his radio show on Sunday.

CFRB has gone down in the ratings a lot in recent years - it has faced heavy competition from 680 News and CBC, and even AM640 more recently.

In the past couple years, CHUM had a rating in the neighbourhood of 1.0. They were usually third-last in Toronto, only ahead of CJBC and Espace Musique, both French stations.

 

[jiminCT]

Just to add to Scotts analysis about the Montreal demographic trends and CJAD, the metro area Montreal English population is about 600,000 now (about the size of metro Springfield MA). While the English community has shrunk dramatically in the last 30 years, the numbers are actually stabilizing somewhat. Additionally, CJAD gets quite a few listeners in Ottawa as well as the Plattsburgh-Burlington market. A move to the 50,000 watt band may only help their reach to people in other areas of North America (at night), but many people nowadays can simply pick up the signal via the internet and pipe it through their stereo like I do....so I think CJAD may consider changing frequencies, but there may be very little benefit to it..considering that the 50,000 watt daytime signal would probably reach a similar area and population to what it does now.

 

[adma]

As for CHUM, its 0.1 rating practically has the station on life support, especially since it is now a simulcast of Cable Pulse 24. How does this compare with the ratings it had when it had oldies, or even the ill-fated Team format?

Well, in effect, you might as well view the CP24 simulcast as a face-saving opportunistic alternative to the shutdown of 690 and 940. Any "ratings" 1050 gets now are a superfluous remnant--to speak in terms of "life support" is an understatement; it's essentially being kept alive solely for organ and tissue donation purposes. Otherwise, it's as dead as 690 and 940.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Just an added note: 1050 CHUM (Toronto) prior to their switch to CP24 radio was only maintaining a 1.7 share.
In 1050's current life a business decision to NOT participate in the ratings game (in other words, not paying for the ppm tone) explains the 0.1 currently being maintained.

If Montreal were to have their version of CP24 television (english or french) would 690 or 940 be viable as a television repeater?

CTV (current owner of 1050 CHUM) made their decision, and total shut down it is not. They still use select timeslots for in house local (or coast to coast) talk programs on the week end, separate from cp24, and possibly some radio infomercials for Fat absorb, etc (again separate from CP24 programming).

 

[adma]

Just an added note: 1050 CHUM (Toronto) prior to their switch to CP24 radio was only maintaining a 1.7 share.
In 1050's current life a business decision to NOT participate in the ratings game (in other words, not paying for the ppm tone) explains the 0.1 currently being maintained.

Does it? I'd assume said "business decision" in practice would lead to 1050 being bunched up with "other", together with out-of-town signals, or CIUT, CKLN, CHRY, etc. IOW might said 0.1 be more an autopilot remnant of the past "ratings game"?

If Montreal were to have their version of CP24 television (english or french) would 690 or 940 be viable as a television repeater?

Well, if Corus were in charge of said CP24 equivalent, perhaps. And it's not so much a "viability" matter, than one of opportunistically dodging around a signal shutdown.

CTV (current owner of 1050 CHUM) made their decision, and total shut down it is not. They still use select timeslots for in house local (or coast to coast) talk programs on the week end, separate from cp24, and possibly some radio infomercials for Fat absorb, etc (again separate from CP24 programming).

<ahem>"radio infomercials for Fat absorb, etc"<ahem> <ahem>

Sounds dead enough to me. Or at least, kept on a respirator for organ-harvesting purposes, if even that.

Potemkin, kiddo. Potemkin.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Thank-you Adma.
The thing to keep on mind, is that future reads will be 0.0 instead of gaining a better insight into what they could charge for ad rates.
I like to believe such information may prove important, provided that places like McDonalds, etc continue this trend toward easy access to a television in their establishment, tuned into CP24, but with no volume.

However, who has access to an AM walkman these days anyway?

My best answer is, perhaps they're banking on the idea that people will use their laptops in Starbucks or wherever instead to gain access to volume.

 

[adma]

Thank-you Adma.
The thing to keep on mind, is that future reads will be 0.0 instead of gaining a better insight into what they could charge for ad rates.
I like to believe such information may prove important, provided that places like McDonalds, etc continue this trend toward easy access to a television in their establishment, tuned into CP24, but with no volume.

However, who has access to an AM walkman these days anyway?

My best answer is, perhaps they're banking on the idea that people will use their laptops in Starbucks or wherever instead to gain access to volume.

Except maybe to "save face", I don't think they're realistically banking on any said idea--which is an even more crackpottish notion than assuming a horde of people still have access to an AM Walkman. (And, don't scoff; there may be more of the latter than you're bargaining on, even if said receptacles are in storage in case of emergencies, electrical outages, etc.)

My best answer is, 1050's continuing BBM presence is but a grandfathered-in vestige of CHUM days, coupled with the present corporate ownership's dodgy crossed-fingers desire to make this bare-bones operation look like an entity less brain-dead than it is. Remember my Potemkin reference.

In a case like this, take away the BBMs and you might as well pull the plug (and perhaps, in the process, have to have a lot of 'splainin' to do to the CRTC)--that is, unless you sell the signal off to an operation less tethered to the corporate BBM-based racket. Like, CHIN and Fairchild don't seem to be suffering from being lost in the BBM netherworld of "Other"...

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Thank-you Adma.
Selling 1050 to 1430 is something I've suggested before on this very board in the event that CTV (or CHUM group before that) were to decide not to bother with AM (in the Toronto market) any further.

I have solid faith in the idea that Fairchild radio would love to have a better signal than they currently maintain over at 1430.

At that point, it would be 1430 that should respectfully close, rather than being a new home for a CP24 repeater of any sort.

 

[fybush]

I think there's no shortage of smaller ethnic broadcasters - 1610, 1650, 1690 - that would in turn love to have the 1430 signal instead.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

I think there's no shortage of smaller ethnic broadcasters - 1610, 1650, 1690 - that would in turn love to have the 1430 signal instead.

Very true, which would therefore suggest very strongly that 1430 might not even be lucky enough to move to 1050 in the event of a CTV abandonment of that frequency.

One (or more) of the others may fight hard to make the move to 1050, given the chance.

Then you also have the Evanov group...would they care to move from AM 530? (or be some sort of repeater to cover more ground?)

At this point, heck, why not drag 1220 CHSC into this thread...yep, they're a mess but they seem to care more about Toronto and Woodbridge more than St. Catherines anyway...

 

[jiminCT]

The deathknell of AM radio in Canada is very sad.

 

[adma]

Though in Toronto, a station like 680 News still thrives--albeit arguably on "that's all AM is good for" grounds.

I'm wondering what CTV might have done had they waited a year--maybe, observing the 940/690 example, they would have chosed off-the-air over simulcast? (Or, conversely, did the half-baked fate of 1050 motivate Corus to shut down its signals out of mercy?)

 

[Yeziknoradio]

I'm wondering what CTV might have done had they waited a year--maybe, observing the 940/690 example, they would have chosed off-the-air over simulcast? (Or, conversely, did the half-baked fate of 1050 motivate Corus to shut down its signals out of mercy?)

Missing information: What revenue is generated under the current CP24 radio arrangement.

We do know this: The ads that air on CP 24 radio are seperate from that which we see on CP24 television. Pennies or Dollars? Still a revenue of some sort.

 

[adma]

And that may be the cue for whatever in-house "D'oh!" reaction re the 0.0/0.1, i.e. BBMs that low ending up causing ad buyers to pull out...