98.3 WGCO in Savannah, which just re-launched Oldies after a year as Jack

[Hardrocker9]

Hey NY, just wondering if this is possible here, or has jack had a great increase in numbers? thoughts

 

[neo11]

I really don't think Savannah and New York can be compared as markets. Risks that can be taken there probably won't be taken there. That said, Jack on a nationwide level hasn't been doing terribly great, with some exceptions, so the format change in Savannah is not too much of a surprise, I guess. However, as far as WCBS is concerned, Jack has been showing gains in each of the last few books, albeit small ones. I don't see CBS Radio pulling the plug on the format as long as it keeps showing some sort of growth, and I especially don't see a flip back to oldies.

Besides, with the way Free FM is going, I think CBS would be wiser to consider a change on 92.3 before they consider anything for 101.1, which is at least showing signs of life. I realize that talk is a format that takes time to build, but it's been 15 months, and Free FM has gotten its share of publicity, yet still remains only a tick above a suburban station in the NYC book.

 

[Radio-X]

Yeah, Savannah has a good deal of "old money", esp. in downtown and on Hilton Head.

New York has probably more "old money", but this is market #1 compared to market #1-hundred something? Even still, Savannah and NYC have very different demographics. But that being said...

No, I feel oldies won't make it back on FM soon in NYC. I would feel Free FM would be a better candidate for a flip, probably to a K-rock-ish format.

Radio-X

 

[Tony9000]

Why is this on the NY thread? I know that many think that flips are in the works, but this has nothing to do with NY.

 

[Radio-X]

I think the comparison was being made to "if oldies was missed enough to return in Savannah, will it return to NYC?"

Radio-X

 

[mikesingh]

Hey NY, just wondering if this is possible here, or has jack had a great increase in numbers? thoughts

neo11 and radiodxrichmond already summed this up really nicely but I thought I'd chime in.

No. Oldies is not coming back. Sure, Joel Hollander may be gone, but that doesn't mean Jack is going with him. As stated above, you can't compare NYC to Savannah. Besides, the Jack in Savannah was the ABC Satellite feed. At least ours is locally produced.

Secondly, as small as the gains Jack is making, they are gains. CBS is definitely going to ride this one out.

Even if oldies did come back, you wouldn't have your same personalities. Which would then defeat the whole purpose of bringing the format back since everyone is so concerned over the ones they lost, instead of being happy their music is back. (They'd probably say "Oh, it just isn't the same... we miss [insert personality here]!") Which would then make me want to start slapping people.

I'm tired of the old foagies (not you, Hardrocker, just saying) that come around at every opportunity and blast Jack while saying "BRING BACK OUR OLDIES". It's not going to happen. Otherwise, another station would have filled the void (WABC Sat. Night doesn't count). You want your oldies? Log on to WCBSFM.com and listen (or get an HD Radio and tune it to 101.1-2), take out your old vinyls and play em, or go get satellite and pay for it. It sure as heck isn't coming back to 101.1 in NYC. It's been almost 2 years. So drop it.

 

[radiolover78]

I think the comparison was being made to "if oldies was missed enough to return in Savannah, will it return to NYC?"

Radio-X

A silly comparison that seems to be made here quite often.

 

[IBadget1]

Why isn't oldies coming back to NYC?

Here are some possible reasons that I have been thinking of:

1. Perhaps oldies isn't that popular in NYC. If it were, 106.7 Lite FM probably wouldn't have eliminated the Carpenters, Barry Manilow, and other older lite favorites. NYC must be a hot and hip radio market, and oldies isn't hip enough to survive in NYC.

2. The radio stations in NYC are owned by big conglomerates, e.g., Clear Channel, CBS, ABC, etc., and they are so hung up on making money that they refuse to do oldies, adult standards, or any other format that they deem doesn't make money.

3. Radio companies want to force listeners to buy HD radio receivers to listen to their HD-2 stations.

4. Radio companies want to force listeners to subscribe to satellite radio because the radio companies refuse to do oldies, adult standards, and other non-mass-appeal formats for free.

5. Radio companies want to force listeners to purchase oldies music, e.g., CDs, music downloads, etc. The radio companies figure that oldies music has been promoted for so long that oldies fans should know what oldies artists to purchase for their listening pleasure.

Do you think any of the above reasons are valid? Anyone have any more reasons to add?

 

[neo11]

Why isn't oldies coming back to NYC?

Here are some possible reasons that I have been thinking of:

1. Perhaps oldies isn't that popular in NYC. If it were, 106.7 Lite FM probably wouldn't have eliminated the Carpenters, Barry Manilow, and other older lite favorites. NYC must be a hot and hip radio market, and oldies isn't hip enough to survive in NYC.

Oldies was getting good numbers on WCBS-FM. Problem was, most of those listeners were above 45, many above 55 or 65. Advertisers don't want a piece of that demo, especially in New York, regardless of how much disposable income that baby boomers and seniors have, on average. The perception, rightly or wrongly, is that those who are older are more set in their ways and are less likely to be influenced by advertising.

2. The radio stations in NYC are owned by big conglomerates, e.g., Clear Channel, CBS, ABC, etc., and they are so hung up on making money that they refuse to do oldies, adult standards, or any other format that they deem doesn't make money.

That they are, but big conglomerates own radio stations all over the country, even in places like Savannah, probably. Also, any corporation, big or small, is out to make a profit, and in a market like New York, oldies isn't seen as profitable. That is not the case everywhere though. One only needs to drive about 90 minutes east of New York City to hear what's happening on WLNG 92.1.

3. Radio companies want to force listeners to buy HD radio receivers to listen to their HD-2 stations.

If they are, they are doing a really shabby job of getting the word out about HD in order to accomplish this goal. I don't have any hard data, but I think it's safe to assume that an overwhelming majority of the public still does not really know or understand what HD radio is. If true, this is not even close to being as important a factor as advertising and demographics.

4. Radio companies want to force listeners to subscribe to satellite radio because the radio companies refuse to do oldies, adult standards, and other non-mass-appeal formats for free.

I know CC has a share in one of the sat radio companies, but ultimately, those are separate entities that are competing with terrestrial radio for listeners. I'm sure those "radio companies" would prefer their listeners stay with terrestrial radio, even if their programming decisions often do not accomplish that goal.

5. Radio companies want to force listeners to purchase oldies music, e.g., CDs, music downloads, etc. The radio companies figure that oldies music has been promoted for so long that oldies fans should know what oldies artists to purchase for their listening pleasure.

Do you think any of the above reasons are valid? Anyone have any more reasons to add?

I don't think the radio companies care whether Barry Manilow or The Carpenters are still selling albums. The recording industry is a separate beast (and an ugly, hideous beast at that), and while they are intertwined to an extent (e.g. concerts, occasional payola), this is definitely not a reason to keep formats like oldies off the air. If anything, it would be an incentive to keep hot, new music off the air, to create an even larger market for new albums. But we know that's not the case either.