A POST FOR BOTH THOSE WHO LIKE HD RADIO AND THOSE WHO DON'T.

[Tom Wells]

I have no idea what you mean with all the electro-babble. I'm in broadcast corporate management.
It's silly to blame noise from whatever source on the demise of AM radio. AM sounds bad, always has really.

Electro-Babble?
If you spoke about business matters, I'd have to defer to your experience and expertise, but we're discussing an engineering issue here.
I would not be dismissive about your opinions on management matters, so derisive commentary about that which you do not understand is unhelpful,
at best.
That you have no idea about electro-babble and are in broadcast corporate management is sad and disturbing.
How can you manage a resource you don't understand?
It is silly to deny facts and ignore engineering truths.
And no, AM doesn't sound bad, you simply haven't ever heard a good AM radio, I guess.

You might want to qualify your guru status better, I would expect a Radio/TV guru to know all about RF engineering.

 

[TVradioguru]

Nope, I pay people to take care of the whole RF, IT, IP, flux capacitor things. Guys like me find the capital dollars for Boffins such as yourself to build me a signal. If it covers the market that I'm trying to reach, mission accomplished. Now just keep it on the air. To assume that someone up the corporate ladder knows about the jibber-jabber that you bring up is naive. Last I checked, this discussion board isn't reserved for radio technicians, but about HD radio.

Regarding the comment about AM radios used to sound good 20 years ago is moot. This isn't 20 years ago and I'm confident that if the general public was exposed to the quality and portability of IPods back then, when given the choice of listening to that or distorted AM radio the choice would be just as simple.

AM has become a dumping ground for blue-hair right wing talk because that's what's left which works on the band.

 

[Savage]

Well now! With quality management attitudes like THESE, small wonder that the radio industry is in the dumper - and why we're saddled with issues like IBOC.

Well done, TVradioguru. I admire your candor. (And your humility. :) But then again what else can we expect from someone who publicly describes himself as a "guru?"

 

[Tom Wells]

To assume that someone up the corporate ladder knows about the jibber-jabber that you bring up is naive.

Regarding the comment about AM radios used to sound good 20 years ago is moot. This isn't 20 years ago and I'm confident that if the general public was exposed to the quality and portability of IPods back then, when given the choice of listening to that or distorted AM radio the choice would be just as simple.

I would not expect everyone all the way up to the top to have technical knowledge or ability.
The value you place upon technical people is evidently low. I know people like you exist,
but what engineers and technicians do is nothig short of magic, a skill built of study, practice and continued learning,
as is in any professional degreed practice. But corporation and deregulation have devalued regard for good engineering,
and what engineers and techs are paid is insulting, given their responsibility level.

I would expect that in a healthy industry, those even near the top would still have sufficient
expertise to be functionally connected to the product, and protecting the product ( and its medium),
understanding the nature of the product and in this way not lose touch.

I'm not quite sure of your age or if you have selective blinders...I'm assuming your hearing is good.
I never mentioned 20 years ago. I said AM still sounds good on good ( as far as wideband af) equipment out there, a lot of it newer and ultra cheap
designs. Many old Ford and Chrysler auto radios still in use are wideband AM.

We had portable music 30 years ago. We had mix tapes. They were fun, but nobody ever stopped listening to the radio because of a mix tape.

May I ask if you've ever been an average listener, or if you've gone straight into the business end of broadcast a long time ago?
Do you remember before you could conceive of being in your present position, what you thought of TV and Radio?
I'd like to know what you thought then, and about when that was. It will help me understand.

 

[Savage]

I've noticed an increasing incidence of nasty posts from the pro-HD faction lately on this board. The usual infantile tactics of ad hominem attacks on HD critics and provocative personal comments are being trotted out once again, generally from The Usual Suspects.

I think these represent a new frontal assault on negative public commentary about HD Radio designed to get threads derailed and tossed to TIO and, to use THEIR phrase, "shout down" those with opposing views. (As I have observed here before, if you want to know what the few remaining HD proponents are up to, note what they are accusing "naysayers" of.)

Not to get into conspiracy theories but this recent development is interesting in light of the long-delayed and desperately-pushed-for digital power increase. It's as if The Usual Suspects feel the need to silence HD critics in an especially acute way these days.

This most recent series of posts quite frankly smells to me like baiting. I propose that everyone ignore him.

 

[Ken Tucky]

"Guys like me find the capital dollars for Boffins such as yourself to build me a signal."


[EDIT-inflammatory content]

By the way, I personally prefer the term Lackey to Boffin! Have a great day, old chap!

 

[TVradioguru]

"Guys like me find the capital dollars for Boffins such as yourself to build me a signal."

Well EXCUSE US!!! I didn't realize that you sh*t ice cream!

By the way, I personally prefer the term Lackey to Boffin! Have a great day, old chap!

I guess your vast education excludes you from even bothering to look up the term Boffin. Here let me help: In the slang of the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, India and South Africa, boffins are scientists, medical doctors, engineers, and other people engaged in technical or scientific research.

So is it you're saying that somehow a radio engineer is above being a Boffin? Interesting! Perhaps you're right.

Regarding Mr. Savages post labeling me as some HD supporter, I suggest that you need to re-read my post. Where in it did it claim I was pro HD? No, I didn’t think so.. Care to apologize for your little tantrum? I’m waiting.

And by naming an obvious older generation fogies, how exactly does that represent your definition of “ad homonym” attack. Do you consider it necessary to come to the rescue of your AM radio ruminator pals as the only intellectually superior on the block? Well bully for you! All hail the leader of the AM Radio Fogies!

Now if you’ll excuse me will attempt to answer Mr. Well’s question before being interrupted by The Fogie Leader:

“May I ask if you've ever been an average listener, or if you've gone straight into the business end of broadcast a long time ago?
Do you remember before you could conceive of being in your present position, what you thought of TV and Radio?
I'd like to know what you thought then, and about when that was. It will help me understand.”

No trouble at all Mr. Wells..

I was in the radio business beginning back in the 70’s as a DJ, later Program Director, General Manager, then moved into TV as a General Manager. Next I left TV traveled the world and came up with some good ideas regarding Internet commerce that made me quite wealthy. After a hiatus, I purchased a radio group which later was sold to a much larger radio group. After that, I purchased some television properties, built them up to being successful, and sold them to yet another group. All of them were sold at a modest profit before the bottom dropped out.

I’m now working for a rather large, and I might add, successful radio and TV group as "corporate management. One of the few given the economy.

 

[TVradioguru]

Oh and to include one more thing... I continue to work in radio and TV because I like it. As soon as I no longer find the business rewarding, I'm off to something else. Personally I don't need to stay in the business as I'm blessed with resources from hard work and being willing to take risks where prudent.

Like many of you I cut my teeth on an AM radio station, but those days are long gone and the AM band is going with it. Time to let it go and live your lifes with new and more relevant technology.

 

[Carmine5]

Jeez, I didn't know Eduardo had a "mini me."

 

[Ken Tucky]

Jeez, I didn't know Eduardo had a "mini me."

I didn't know we had just met Mr. Wonderful!

 

[Carmine5]

I've asked Bill Norman of WNMB if he could post some airchecks from his station on his website. His AM stereo signal sounds amazing and provides a very good idea of the kind of audio potential AM has.

For that matter, I'd love to hear Mr. Savage's station as received through his new tube radio (I'm assuming he got his Xmas wish).

c5

 

[audioguy]

If the broadcast industry is no longer interested in AM radio, I suggest they all sign off and turn the band over to the hobbyists and experimenters who are interested in AM and do care about serving their local communities. Low Power AM and Part 15 AM have enormous possibilities. I'd be glad to have a 5 watt station, and I know how to make it sound good.

By the way, most of the low power broadcasting enthusiasts I've met are very nice people and don't insist on insulting others in order to make their points.

I'm currently listening to classical music over my Rangemaster... and it sounds great!

 

[TVradioguru]

If the broadcast industry is no longer interested in AM radio, I suggest they all sign off and turn the band over to the hobbyists and experimenters who are interested in AM and do care about serving their local communities. Low Power AM and Part 15 AM have enormous possibilities. I'd be glad to have a 5 watt station, and I know how to make it sound good.

By the way, most of the low power broadcasting enthusiasts I've met are very nice people and don't insist on insulting others in order to make their points.

I'm currently listening to classical music over my Rangemaster... and it sounds great!

Good idea! You Fogies go out and either apply for a silent or purchase some derelict AM station somewhere. Run it for one year, then get back to all of us on your success. I'm sure that your programming abilities, AM stereo, etc. will teach us successful business individuals a thing or two. Cheers!

 

[Tom Wells]

If the broadcast industry is no longer interested in AM radio, I suggest they all sign off and turn the band over to the hobbyists and experimenters who are interested in AM and do care about serving their local communities. Low Power AM and Part 15 AM have enormous possibilities. I'd be glad to have a 5 watt station, and I know how to make it sound good.

By the way, most of the low power broadcasting enthusiasts I've met are very nice people and don't insist on insulting others in order to make their points.

I'm currently listening to classical music over my Rangemaster... and it sounds great!

Good idea! You Fogies go out and either apply for a silent or purchase some derelict AM station somewhere. Run it for one year, then get back to all of us on your success. I'm sure that your programming abilities, AM stereo, etc. will teach us successful business individuals a thing or two. Cheers!

Supposing we have a different definition of success, we already are successful at what we do.
Audioguy and I know exactly how much power and work go into putting a signal on the air.
If our idea of success means a lot less money than yours, then perhaps a model for non-profit local AM needs to be defined.
Radio is too valuable to only be a workhorse for profit, and is wasted if that's all it becomes.

I have no intention of leaving Chicago. I'll be waiting a long time for a silent AM.

 

[radiotower40]

I've noticed an increasing incidence of nasty posts from the pro-HD faction lately on this board. The usual infantile tactics of ad hominem attacks on HD critics and provocative personal comments are being trotted out once again, generally from The Usual Suspects.

I think these represent a new frontal assault on negative public commentary about HD Radio designed to get threads derailed and tossed to TIO and, to use THEIR phrase, "shout down" those with opposing views. (As I have observed here before, if you want to know what the few remaining HD proponents are up to, note what they are accusing "naysayers" of.)

Not to get into conspiracy theories but this recent development is interesting in light of the long-delayed and desperately-pushed-for digital power increase. It's as if The Usual Suspects feel the need to silence HD critics in an especially acute way these days.

This most recent series of posts quite frankly smells to me like baiting. I propose that everyone ignore him.

I agree with you Mr. Savage, that's why I finally gave up on responding to it. Look at how far they've
gotten this post to stray from it's original topic.

We are the ones that get told we are being negative? "Baiting" is exactly the right word to use for it.

I'm only going to say a couple more things here on this thread. It is very sad that people like Tom Wells, who
if anyone has read this board knows, is extremely well versed and educated in engineering, is being insulted
the way he is. It is childish and very uncalled for. That goes for Savage and the others being attacked as well.

I'm in my mid 30's, I know I'm an old fogie and should stop yappin' already, I responded earlier in this thread
that I thought it was an excellent idea to protest outside of Best Buy, about HD, that was suggested to me. I
should have made it more clear that I had no intention of doing something so worthless, I was being sarcastic.

 

[Savage]

Can you imagine what it must be like to work for some nitwit like that? Egad.

(Assuming - arguendo - that more than about 10 percent of his self-aggrandizing resume recitation is based in reality, which is probably a major stretch. Nobody who has become "quite wealthy" feels compelled to bray about it on a message board.)

I've had the blessings of working for - and with - people who have amassed huge fortunes and who have enjoyed enormously successful careers in various fields. I can testify that literally none of them espouse attitudes like his. Or anoint themselves with childishly royal names in public.

We used to say in corporate radio that you have two choices: you either work for an a-hole. Or you're about to. Even if your current boss is a prince the likelihood is high that he'll be replaced at some point with a guru or a savant or a 24-year old Al Gore after which your life will become a living hell. Which is why I chose, 23 years ago, to do radio on my own. Not only have I never regretted the decision, two good friends on the corporate side watched and then went out and bought moribund AMs of their own which they have successfully resuscitated. They are having the times of their lives.

It's not for everybody, because it's a lot of work - with no guarantees, of course. But if you love radio give it a whirl, and best of luck to you!

 

[Tom Wells]

I have worked for a wide spectrum of types as my supervisor, and found that the best supervisors were those who had
excelled at the position I held, as a field service engineer. They could still think like the customer.
I did very well by serving the customer AND the manufacturer by being able to think like the customer.
Ahh but that was in field service...

The last 9 months has been in a pure "production output rules" place.

My current supervisor is not one of these. He expects the magic to work, day in and day out, and that I and 1 machinist can work a 3 hour miracle at 2:13 AM on a Saturdaynight/Sundaymorning. He's neither a mechanic, machinist, or electrician, but he is supervisor
of the Maintenance dept. This makes for some interesting explainations.
Just like TVRadioGuru, he wishes to be far away from such electrobabble, busted knuckes, or perma-stained hands, or have all
kinds of *%#@$ fall on you while you're fixing the SOB. I'm supposed to take up ALL the friction of why it isn't fixed yet, and my boss
can't even say I'm right or wrong, cause HE doesn't know. So I can very easily imagine working for him.

I might be guilty of braying about income if I can get the ball rolling on the fish meter..
But then, I'll be seriously looking about buying up WONX, and running 3 T-1's or a microwave link straight up the Chicago River
to the TX from the house, and making this mess pt 15 a real studio.

But TVRadioGuru,
I have now an idea when you entered the field and would be at min my age or 5-10 more, so 48-58.
But I still see I haven't gotten an answer about what you thought about radio and TV in last years before you entered the industry.
I won't say there's any baiting going on, but I can't beleive some one my age could say they've never heard a good AM
unless they've always been tone-deaf. No offense, but being tone deaf is a tremendous limitation in fixing analog circuits,
so I have protected my hearing in industrial environments since 1980. I can tell when a coupling capacitor breaks down somewhere
in my gear, and by the sound of it, just at about what stage. Receiver or transmitter.
I have one right now in my best air monitor, somewhere in the driver to output stage, and the bass gets "all muzzy".
(that's a customer technical term from the '30's)
I'm sure your business sense also leads you to know what to fix when you see "impaired performance",
but I would have no idea in business matters, where to adjust, as I deal with the laws of physics, which have
a very comforting reality to me. I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

Bob, you've reminded me of a tale how back in Utah, where my wife's family's from would take a prospective groom up to the cabin,
and see how he measured up in the woods, fishing, etc. I somehow got a pass, but when my mother-in-law got remarried back in the 1970s the grandpa was talking to my now Step-Ex-Father-in-Law (or what) and told him,
"Son, there's only three kinds of men, there's cowboys, there's injuns, and there's bullsh*tt*rs, and son, I think you're a bullsh*tt*r.".

 

[TVradioguru]

Can you imagine what it must be like to work for some nitwit like that? Egad.

(Assuming - arguendo - that more than about 10 percent of his self-aggrandizing resume recitation is based in reality, which is probably a major stretch. Nobody who has become "quite wealthy" feels compelled to bray about it on a message board.)

I've had the blessings of working for - and with - people who have amassed huge fortunes and who have enjoyed enormously successful careers in various fields. I can testify that literally none of them espouse attitudes like his. Or anoint themselves with childishly royal names in public.

We used to say in corporate radio that you have two choices: you either work for an a-hole. Or you're about to. Even if your current boss is a prince the likelihood is high that he'll be replaced at some point with a guru or a savant or a 24-year old Al Gore after which your life will become a living hell. Which is why I chose, 23 years ago, to do radio on my own. Not only have I never regretted the decision, two good friends on the corporate side watched and then went out and bought moribund AMs of their own which they have successfully resuscitated. They are having the times of their lives.

It's not for everybody, because it's a lot of work - with no guarantees, of course. But if you love radio give it a whirl, and best of luck to you!

Really! Now who’s resorting to an ad homonym attacks and name calling? As long as you are at it Mr. Savage, just a friendly reminder that you still owe me an apology.
Those who live in glass houses (or stand alone AM stations in QUITE economically depressed Upstate New York), shouldn’t cast stones!

Look, if my style offends you I apologize. Unlike many who post on these boards, I speak the truth even if it stings. There are people like me who buy build-up and then sell businesses. That’s how we’re successful. Like you probably have, I started by working in the industry later to become an owner buying out my competition or growing into other markets then selling when the big fish comes along. As distasteful to some of you who see radio as perhaps somewhat a religion, (and HD radio Satan,apparently), I’m merely giving you a glimpse into the business side of broadcasting. If you were in my shoes and had a lick of sense and opportunity, you’d do the same thing.

Now back to the “good ol’ days” cabal, already in progress!

 

[Tom Wells]

Dear TVRadioGuru,

But I still really would like to know your age, and your perceptions of Radio/TV before you envisioned working in broadcast.

?

I recognize your truth in the buisness end of making money.
Will you acknowledge the truths about RF interference?
I'm speaking about further devaluation in the very stuff you earn your living at.
If the "stuff" (RF transmission in "ether") no longer works, your radio value decreases alarmingly.

I will challenge you, in case you're newer, and never saw the earlier challenge, to state any example
of a digital system, that nature or "God" or evolution has developed, because of course if it is a better nature
then it would exist. Otherwise, you'd have to consider that particularly in MW, trying to make an inherently
low-frequency data WAVE, into a digital high frequency zero and one bitstream is so much pounding square pegs into round holes.

Tell us just how much AM listening you do. When was the last time you heard a song you'd never heard before on AM, and really liked
heaing something new on AM??

 

[davideduardo]

Now back to the “good ol’ days” cabal, already in progress!

Ah, the good ole' days. Except, other than being "old" they weren't as good as anyone remembers.

How about another tale of rapacious, greedy broadcasters?

I owned a couple of stations, and had good ratings. But someone came on with a format that was getting top 5 ratings, and putting some pressure on my operation. I found a station licensed outside the market and moved it 60 miles in, and did my version of the annoying competitor's format. I not only fragmented it, I beat it. All was well, as the fragmentation moved things back to near normal, and I had more inventory to sell.

The year? 1967.

It's called "competition" and exists in all fields. Radio is not sacred and immune from it, because the model for most terrestrial radio is based on the free market, not on idealism.

(And when too much idealism prevailed, we got the Sunday morning PA / Other ghetto... useless programming that served nobody.)