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A Quest to Buy an HD Radio In Cincy ---

That'd be great, Lino, if I could find a Radio Shack salesman who knew what HD Radio was. In my "test-shopping" outing last fall no sales associate in three Rochester RS units could show me one or tell me about HD. I pressed one particularly friendly manager who thought for a minute and said, oh, yes, the Accurian. There were problems with it, so the company disco'ed it.

Actually, to be precise - the local manager of the smaller RS in nearby Geneseo, Tom, is a guy whose store where we occasionally buy bits and pieces, connectors, etc., on an as-needed basis weighed in on the Accurian. He hated the thing. Said most of them were sold to "radio geeks" in this small college town and "most of them came back as defective."

Tom told me the only inquiry about an HD Radio in the past year came from.....me.
 
That'd be great, Lino, if I could find a Radio Shack salesman who knew what HD Radio was. In my "test-shopping" outing last fall no sales associate in three Rochester RS units could show me one or tell me about HD. I pressed one particularly friendly manager who thought for a minute and said, oh, yes, the Accurian. There were problems with it, so the company disco'ed it.

Actually, to be precise - the local manager of the smaller RS in nearby Geneseo, Tom, is a guy whose store where we occasionally buy bits and pieces, connectors, etc., on an as-needed basis weighed in on the Accurian. He hated the thing. Said most of them were sold to "radio geeks" in this small college town and "most of them came back as defective."

I realize it's a different world up there.. Down here there are three RS stores within four blocks of each other, two are exactly a block apart on different avenues.

As I have related in other threads, I spoke to two employees, both are managers and young, I was asking about astc converters but after being told that "it won't work here" (in town) I asked about the HD radios, the answer surprised me, no returns several complaints over reception that a rabbit ears cured.

I don't know what the iboc situation is up there, but as I have related, all the NYC fm's decode (for me) with just the dipole and all but one AM with the loop.

If after hearing the posted WABC-Imus 'check you still think that analog AM is preferable...well...

BTW: I was at the Circuit City on east 86th st on Sunday, they still have the Sony hd table set sitting there w/no antennas connected, same as with all the other radios, I guess they expect people to buy on-faith.

Lino
 
Well, fair enough. I would certainly be willing to concede that the HD situation in NYC and environs may differ significantly from most other areas of the country.

The problem: most of the country doesn't live in NYC, nor are conditions you're experiencing typical of most other areas. If you review most of the posts here, industry blogs and publications, audiophile boards and periodicals, I think that a fair and objective evaluation would conclude: the world just doesn't know, or care, about HD Radio. And I would argue that my experience with the system is more typical of the rest of the country that is yours. Perhaps NYC will be an Oasis of HD Success. Even if that were to come to pass, it still won't put HD over as a successful system.

NTSC TV started out with wild success in a few metropolitan cities after WW2 - the only operating TV stations in 1947 were in NYC, DC, Schenectady (because of the presence of GE), Baltimore, Philly, Boston and Richmond - with a small sprinkling in other areas like Chicago, St. Louis and LA. But TV didn't really become ubiquitous in American living rooms until stations started in other cities and national networks were formed in 1951. If its gonna succeed, HD Radio has to (a) work acceptably, (b) be affordable/cheap, (c) offer tangible real-world benefits which compare favorably with competing technologies (like satradio and web radio) and (d) be everywhere. HD's score on these counts: F, D, D, D.

I know you feel that HD offers hope for AM. I think otherwise, to the extent that it's actually harmful to the status quo. We're not going to convince each other. I know which team I'd rather be on. I'm sure you feel the same.
 
I live near Worcester, MA, 40 miles west of Boston, 35 miles north of Providence and 50 miles east of Springfield MA (Worcester and Springfield vie for being the second largest cities in New England. Now, I don't know about Providence or Springfield but I know Boston has HD stations and I suspect the other two cities have them also. There are no HD receivers in any Rat Shack I've been in around here, nor any Circuit Cities or Walmarts. I suspect NY city is an anomaly.
 
KB1OKL said:
I live near Worcester, MA, 40 miles west of Boston, 35 miles north of Providence and 50 miles east of Springfield MA (Worcester and Springfield vie for being the second largest cities in New England. Now, I don't know about Providence or Springfield but I know Boston has HD stations and I suspect the other two cities have them also. There are no HD receivers in any Rat Shack I've been in around here, nor any Circuit Cities or Walmarts. I suspect NY city is an anomaly.

My daughter spent 4 years at Clark University so I know Worcester a bit. It's a fairly depressed city with no AM HD facilities. Also, Worcester, for all its native charm is not a major market. Boston is, Worcester is not. If you can't find a HD radio near you how about checking the Radio Shack internet site such as I just did. Here's what I found;


This product is available at the following locations near 01605.

Last updated on Mar 17, 2008.


WORCESTER-WEBSTER
01-1352 | 3.74 miles*
See a map Store Hours:
Mon-Sat 9 am - 9 pm
Sunday 12 pm - 5 pm


508-753-0292
WEBSTER SQ SHOP CNTR
68 STAFFORD ST
WORCESTER, MA 01603
In stock

MARLBOROUGH-SOLOMON POND
01-1164 | 13.19 miles*
See a map Store Hours:
Mon-Sat 10:00 am - 9:30 pm
Sunday Closed


508-303-0910
SOLOMON POND MALL
601 DONALD LYNCH BLVD
MARLBOROUGH, MA 01752

I called a store in Worcester and they told me how to find it by using ones zip code. By the way, I only checked for the Accurian. I can check for the Boston Acoustics too if you'd like. Or maybe you can go to radioshack.com and do it yourself.
 
Oh, here's where you can buy the Boston Acoustics HD Receptor in Worcester;

WORCESTER-WEBSTER
01-1352 | 5.16 miles*
See a map Store Hours:
Mon-Sat 9 am - 9 pm
Sunday 12 pm - 5 pm


508-753-0292
WEBSTER SQ SHOP CNTR
68 STAFFORD ST
WORCESTER, MA 01603
Buy Online - ship it to a store near you.

In stock


There you go, take your choice. You can go right out and pick up a HD radio today, even in Worcester, Mass.

Oh they even sell these radios in Rochester;

ROCHESTER-PITTSFORD
01-4389 | 3.74 miles*
See a map Store Hours:
Mon-Fri 10 am - 8 pm
Saturday 10 am - 9 pm
Sunday 12 pm - 5 pm


585-381-4419
PITTSFORD PLAZA
3349 MONROE AVE
ROCHESTER, NY 14618
In stock


ROCHESTER-HENRIETTA
01-4318 | 5.36 miles*
See a map Store Hours:
Mon-Sat 9 am - 9 pm
Sunday 12 pm - 5 pm


585-424-1428
HENRIETTA PLAZA
1100 JEFFERSON RD
ROCHESTER, NY 14623

In stock
 
Thanks, RF - very interesting! The Henrietta Plaza store is where the manager told me in October or November - can't recall which - that the Accurian was discontinued. I'm going out shopping. I'll report back on this board.
 
R.F. Burns said:
...It's a fairly depressed city with no AM HD facilities. Also, Worcester, for all its native charm is not a major market.

“...A fairly depressed city” and not “a major market”... OH MY, R.F. – Have you given-up on the basic broadcast premise of “mass appeal”? Is EVERYone who owns a radio “rich” or live in NYC?... Or is that iBiquity’snew definition of the “HD Radio target”... So HD Radio is reserverd for "the rich 'n famous" that reside within the concrete canyons? ...iB is SURE to fail if they placed you in their Marketing division!

“HD radio” will make-it-or-break-it in the general marketplace—regardless of household income... I can tell you’ve never experienced a basic marketing class!

“HD” will be judged on its merits... In my humble opinion—there are NONE. Thus, it WILL FAIL... It already has!
 
I expect apathy from consumers toward HD Radio. After all, they're still trying to figure out the DTV transition. But to get it from retailers, to me, is very puzzling.

While getting some specialty batteries at my local Radio Shack store a couple of weeks ago, I noticed they had one Accurian unit on the shelf. It wasn't plugged in and no employee in the store knew how to use it.

I live near two Circuit City stores and, during a recent trip, the only HD Radios on display that I saw were the JVC in-dash units. Both units were working but were greatly overshadowed by the in-dash DVD players surrounding them. The salesman at each store demo'ed the HD radios and then tried to steer me toward the DVD players (it must have been "spiff" week on those players).

A Best Buy just opened near me three weeks ago. I'll check out their HD Radio display this weekend.

But I haven't seen this much apathy from retailers since the debut of the Sony Elcaset.

C5
 
Carmine5 said:
I expect apathy from consumers toward HD Radio. After all, they're still trying to figure out the DTV transition. But to get it from retailers, to me, is very puzzling.

While getting some specialty batteries at my local Radio Shack store a couple of weeks ago, I noticed they had one Accurian unit on the shelf. It wasn't plugged in and no employee in the store knew how to use it.

I live near two Circuit City stores and, during a recent trip, the only HD Radios on display that I saw were the JVC in-dash units. Both units were working but were greatly overshadowed by the in-dash DVD players surrounding them. The salesman at each store demo'ed the HD radios and then tried to steer me toward the DVD players (it must have been "spiff" week on those players).

A Best Buy just opened near me three weeks ago. I'll check out their HD Radio display this weekend.

But I haven't seen this much apathy from retailers since the debut of the Sony Elcaset.

C5


Its funny that I keep reading the same comments about store sales people and how they nothing knowing about HD radio. I called a store in Worcester Mass yesterday morning and the person who answered the phone knew immediately what I was talking about and where I could find the radio in the city. I was also told that I could have the store order a radio for me, if for some reason they were out of stock on the item.
 
hipporadio said:
R.F. Burns said:
...It's a fairly depressed city with no AM HD facilities. Also, Worcester, for all its native charm is not a major market.

“...A fairly depressed city” and not “a major market”... OH MY, R.F. – Have you given-up on the basic broadcast premise of “mass appeal”? Is EVERYone who owns a radio “rich” or live in NYC?... Or is that iBiquity’snew definition of the “HD Radio target”... So HD Radio is reserverd for "the rich 'n famous" that reside within the concrete canyons? ...iB is SURE to fail if they placed you in their Marketing division!

“HD radio” will make-it-or-break-it in the general marketplace—regardless of household income... I can tell you’ve never experienced a basic marketing class!

“HD” will be judged on its merits... In my humble opinion—there are NONE. Thus, it WILL FAIL... It already has!


What a rediculous response. HD Radio is being introduced into major market radio (where the vast majority of people live) and slowly making its way into medium and small markets. Worcester, Mass is a medium market (Market 112) and the city is largely depressed. Those aren't judgements, those are facts. By the way, Springfield Mass is market 86, also a medium market. If you believe you can compare a city like Worcester Mass to NYC, then you are living in fantasy land. That doesn't make Worcester a bad place or evil, but the introduction of this new technology will take place at a much slower rate than it would in a city such as NY or LA, or any one of this countries major markets.
 
I think you missed my point RF which was that I live within listening (analog) distance of three large cities and everywhere I went I couldn't find one, Solomon Pond may well have one or two it's huge and sells a lot of useless stuff to people who don't care what they buy as long as it is the latest thing. They cater to people who have to be the first to have the latest new gadget, dress or whatever.
I will check out those closer places you have mentioned. Solomon Pond Mall place is half way to Boston from here, I'm talking about in the Worcester area. Worcester has no charms, it is a very boring city, I live in the suburbs but again that was not my point. If HD were such a great thing you'd think a medium sized city between two other cities would have at least a few of IBOC radios for sale. You did mention one of the only good things about Worcester though: It does not have any HD radio thank God ;D. Boston has several IBOC station and rumor has it it even has several IBOC receivers.
 
Well, boys and girls, I promised I would go on an HD Radio mystery-shopper spree, after my friend RF Burns graciously took time to research availability of Accurians at Rochester-region Radio Shacks. I wanted to get out there promptly after RF reported that the units were in stock at at least two suburban Shacks. Here's the report:

HENRIETTA PLAZA ROCHESTER: A nice RS unit - spacious, well-lighted. I walked past two gleaming end-caps stuffed with iPod gear, docking stations, cool-looking clock radio and portable units, past towering Sirius/XM and HDTV arrays, to a mid-store section of shelving and slatwall blandly marked, RADIOS. There was an assortment of portable multiband receivers and tabletop units. And there was the HD display - judging from the single product placement apparently RS Henrietta is marketing HD Radio to preschoolers. The "HD Radio display" -such as it was - was at about calf-level, consisting of one shopworn BA Receptor HD marked as a "Manager's Special" at $249.95. The unit only had a hank of hookup wire attached as an antenna. A computer printed easel card called out local station programming in HD, with HD-2 and HD-3 formats available. I could only get Class B signals in analog by fiddling with the wire; no Class A's and utterly nothing on AM in analog or digital - despite the fact that WHAM's 50kw Tx site was less than 5 miles distant. A sales assistant asked if she could help me. I asked about the BA and if there were any Accurians. Consulting the store SKU computer she said they had no Accurians and none were slated for incoming shipment (more on this in a moment.) She said dubiously that she knew nothing about the Receptor but invited me to take it home and experiment, with full return privileges assured.

PITTSFORD PLAZA - a smaller store. No HD Radio display in sight. I corralled an associate and asked about HD Radio. She took me to the back of the store, and next to a tall XM/Sirius display, was a section marked CLOSEOUTS. On the bottom shelf, with a CB radio stacked on it, was another BA Receptor HD - in its box. The unit appeared to be a return, since the box had been obviously opened and resealed with packing tape. It too was marked as a "Manager's Special" at $249.95. I pressed the associate about Accurians, and she consulted her inventory computer. She advised me that Accurians are no longer store stock items but that they could be ordered, with shipment to my home within 3 business days. So apparently that's that for Accurians at your local Shack.

I decided to keep trying. Off to CIRCUIT CITY HENRIETTA, where I came up utterly dry. Nothing, zip, nada, either in portable, desktop/ portable or car audio. I asked a sales associate about HD Radio. He pointed to the HDTV section. No, RADIO, I insisted. He looked at me like I was asking if they had any Edison Fireside combination 2/4 minute cylinder machines with cygnet horns and Model K reproducers. He had never heard of HD Radio, he told me. He was sure the store never carried any.

Down the road I went to BEST BUY. Buried in the back of the store: eureka! An HD Radio display, consisting of about 4 feet of shelf space where there were two of those Sony tabletop units that have gotten favorable notice on this board (I forgot to jot down the model number.) One was hooked up and operating and marked $199.95, the other was the same model in open-box clearance form at $159.95 with no accessories, box or manual...it appeared to be in good shape. The Sony only had the AM loop hooked up for antenna; WHAM's PAD and HD signal came in with minimal fiddling. No other HD signals were received, AM or FM. Next to the Sonys was a shelf marked for the Insignia unit, but there was only a placard saying SEE THIS UNIT ON DISPLAY AT THE END OF THE AISLE. But on the end-cap there was only a display of Monster Cable. Asking two sales guys, they located two Insignia units, sealed in their boxes, on a shelf. I asked if they could tell me about HD Radio. They looked at me blankly for a moment and suggested I talk to "Stan," over in the HDTV area. "He's the guy who would know something about HD," they said confidently. Somehow I suspected that for these two, HD Radio = HDTV. HD is HD, after all.

So that's the report. I got to listen to one HD signal during my outing: a 50kw AM with a Tx site 5 miles away. Did it sound good? Absolutely. Would I spend $216 including tax to listen to NCAA hoops in stereo? Of course not.

I reported on this board that HD Radio was very hard to find at retail in Rochester last fall. From yesterday's experiment I would say that the situation has worsened.
 
I forgot: a footnote to the above narrative. It should be noted that of the three actual HD Radios I found on display, at least two - the Best Buy Sony and the Receptor at Pittsford RS - were obviously returns, not a good sign for consumer acceptance of the performance quality of these units in the field.

At Best Buy, a quantity of bi-fold circulars for HD was stacked on the shelf with the Sonys and the empty Insignia position. It's titled, "HD Radio! (Alliance logo) DISCOVER IT!" The piece goes on to claim, "Same FM dial. More Channels. CD-Quality Sound. All you need is an HD Radio for better sound with no monthly fee." (Best buy logo)

Apart from the oft-repeated lie about "CD Quality Sound," it appears that not even Best Buy is aware of HD-AM radio. There is no mention of HD-AM.
 
And a footnote to the footnote:

Not a single retail sales associate during this afternoon outing - at two RS stores, a Best Buy and a Circuit City - could tell me about HD Radio. All four associates I spoke with demurred, saying "I really don't know anything about it." One of the BB guys pointed out the bifold circulars to me while suggesting I speak "with the guy in HDTV, who knows all about that HD stuff."
 
Savage said:
And a footnote to the footnote:

Not a single retail sales associate during this afternoon outing - at two RS stores, a Best Buy and a Circuit City - could tell me about HD Radio. All four associates I spoke with demurred, saying "I really don't know anything about it." One of the BB guys pointed out the bifold circulars to me while suggesting I speak "with the guy in HDTV, who knows all about that HD stuff."

As oft-happens I can best you in the doom and gloom.

Last Sunday: Circuit City east 86th st Sony hd set on one of two shelves with radios and stereos, none playing, no antennas on Sony (or any), -no public interest.

The "radio" section is tucked opposite the CD section another ghost area.

Best Buy again east 86th (huge site of former HMV which had performance space)
Master antenna (fm) no signal on any of the sets, it's been that way for over a year. Line amp off? Antenna disconnected, whatever, no one cares.
Ofcourse no AM loop, but both stores are in huge recent high-rises so it would not matter.

One positive note, the Rat Shack where I bought mine has the sets near the window thus if someone bothers to untangle the antennas they'll get both AM and FM iboc. Oddly, the AM works there quite well.

The bigger issue: radio is not what is "happening" anymore. No one pays any attention to the large Sat-radio displays either. Internet radio? Yeah right.

It's all about "personal media' today.

A somewhat sad Lino
 
Well, I didn't mean the report as "doom and gloom," Lino. I had just made a statement earlier in the thread that HD Radios, from my experience, were largely unavailable in my local area. RF Burns countered that he had checked inventory online and that Accurians were indicated as "in-stock" at two local Shacks. So, respecting RF's information, I ventured out to update the situation as I had encountered it last fall, promising to report back, which I did.

It was just a narrative of what I found when I went HD shopping. If the situation had brightened appreciably I would have so reported. But the reverse was true. HD Radio is just not on the retail radar screen. The four locations I visited had made a minimal and unenthusiastic gesture towards stocking HD gear....or, to be more accurate, three had and one (Circuit City) was apparently ignoring HD entirely.

As I said, on the positive side, the digital performance of the Sony tabletop unit was impressive on WHAM - but that was the best of best-case scenarios, with a better-quality HD Radio tuned to a 50kw station whose tower was 5 miles away. And the unit is just not realistically priced for mass acceptance. Nobody's going to pay $200 for "a radio" these days.
 
LinoNYC said:
The bigger issue: radio is not what is "happening" anymore. No one pays any attention to the large Sat-radio displays either. Internet radio? Yeah right.

It's all about "personal media' today.

A somewhat sad Lino

Perhaps "radio" is in trouble. I remain optimistic about the medium, although not about HD. I think that "radio" may need to redefine itself and learn to work with emerging technologies, rather than fight them. The successful buggy builders of another era started building automobiles. Some of them did quite well at it.

Back to the topic of HD radio availability, I was browsing through the local Wal-Mart in Kilgore, Texas the other day. I stopped by the car stereo area to see what was new. To my amazement, there were three HD radios: a Sony, a Panasonic and a Jensen. NONE of them were identified as HD by any of the signage. I had to look for a tiny "HD" logo somewhere on the front panel. Most front panels were also cluttered with a plethora of other logos for various technologies like “CD,” “mp3,” “USB” “Dolby” etc. “HD” did not stand out. In fact, without a magnifying class, it would be hard to notice on some of them.

While all of these radios seemed OK in analog, none of them picked up any HD signals in the store. To be fair, there are only two stations that are remotely possible to receive in HD in the area, even using a high gain outdoor antenna, so that is not a surprise. My HDT-1 has trouble with them, so I wouldn't expect HD to work in a store. Even so, without actually being able to demonstrate HD, it simply becomes a footnote. It’s one of those “features” lots of the stuff you buy these days has, but there is no need or desire on your part to use it or explore its possibilities.

What struck me as really odd was:

1. They were attempting to sell these radios in an area with no HD presence. OK, it is a national chain, so that probably explains it.

2. Absolutely nothing was mentioned on the header cards about HD. That may be because of "number 1, above," but most of the display stuff in Wally-world is national, and not left up to the local manager. I doubt any of the people in the automotive department knew how to turn on most of these radios, much less could tell you about HD. Great marketing!

I suppose for the avid supporters, you can say, "at least it is getting the radios out in the market," and I'd have to agree with you. It is odd that you can buy the radios in areas where there is nothing to listen to, but they seem to be hard to find in areas where there are a variety of listening choices.

I'm sure this will go down in history as a classic example of how not to market a new product. It is even more spectacular than the "New Coke" debacle. The only difference is the general public actually cared about Coke. Only a very few people are worried about this one.

By the way, the cheaper Jensen radio seemed to be the stand-out of the three. It seemed easy to navigate, which is quite a feat these days. Using the seek function, it stopped on more stations than either the Sony or Panasonic. It seemed to have plenty of poop and sounded pretty good. I may get one for my golf cart.
 
KB1OKL said:
You did mention one of the only good things about Worcester though: It does not have any HD radio thank God ;D.

Except , of course, for WTAG 580, WICN 90.5, and WSRS 96.1 which are all in HD.
But they don't count ;-)
(I know I know, technically they are in Holden, Boylston, and Paxton respectivley) =)
 
necrat123 said:
KB1OKL said:
You did mention one of the only good things about Worcester though: It does not have any HD radio thank God ;D.

Except , of course, for WTAG 580, WICN 90.5, and WSRS 96.1 which are all in HD.
But they don't count ;-)
(I know I know, technically they are in Holden, Boylston, and Paxton respectivley) =)

Yup I don't know how I forgot about WTAG, probably because it has the good sense and manners to shut off the noise jammer off at night, I do listen to WICN occasionally and have never heard them mention HD,

This is WICN's IBOC page:

http://www.wicn.org/aboutus/hd_radio.htm

WSRS was Worcesters first FM (I believe), it stood for Worcester's Stereo Radio Station and if it is in glorious IBOC it is mentioned nowhere on their site including their history, it is a pretty popular station around here in offices, things like that.

I don't think radio is dying, I think it is in a transitional stage of which IBOC is just a detour to nowhere, the sooner it and the the giant companies that ruined radio in the first place are gone the sooner radio can get on with the business of making itself good again.
 
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