A Quest to Buy an HD Radio In Cincy ---

[BRNout]

Well, I didn't mean the report as "doom and gloom," Lino. I had just made a statement earlier in the thread that HD Radios, from my experience, were largely unavailable in my local area. RF Burns countered that he had checked inventory online and that Accurians were indicated as "in-stock" at two local Shacks. So, respecting RF's information, I ventured out to update the situation as I had encountered it last fall, promising to report back, which I did.

It was just a narrative of what I found when I went HD shopping. If the situation had brightened appreciably I would have so reported. But the reverse was true. HD Radio is just not on the retail radar screen. The four locations I visited had made a minimal and unenthusiastic gesture towards stocking HD gear....or, to be more accurate, three had and one (Circuit City) was apparently ignoring HD entirely.

As I said, on the positive side, the digital performance of the Sony tabletop unit was impressive on WHAM - but that was the best of best-case scenarios, with a better-quality HD Radio tuned to a 50kw station whose tower was 5 miles away. And the unit is just not realistically priced for mass acceptance. Nobody's going to pay $200 for "a radio" these days.

Bob, the description of your shopping trip was pretty good - and it brought more than a few chuckles. Basically, this has been my experience too - except that I have yet to see a store display for HD Radio that actually allowed you to hear a station in HD: AM or FM. I did buy an Insignia bookshelf unit and it works pretty well, though it's reception of HD stations is limited to local (very strong) FM stations only. Then again, I am a radio geek and will put up with the inconvenience of having an extra antenna hooked to it. The average consumer just won't go through the trouble to find an affordable unit and to set it up in a manner which actually allows it to work.

As oft-happens I can best you in the doom and gloom.

Last Sunday: Circuit City east 86th st Sony hd set on one of two shelves with radios and stereos, none playing, no antennas on Sony (or any), -no public interest.

The "radio" section is tucked opposite the CD section another ghost area.

Best Buy again east 86th (huge site of former HMV which had performance space)
Master antenna (fm) no signal on any of the sets, it's been that way for over a year. Line amp off? Antenna disconnected, whatever, no one cares.
Ofcourse no AM loop, but both stores are in huge recent high-rises so it would not matter.

One positive note, the Rat Shack where I bought mine has the sets near the window thus if someone bothers to untangle the antennas they'll get both AM and FM iboc. Oddly, the AM works there quite well.

The bigger issue: radio is not what is "happening" anymore. No one pays any attention to the large Sat-radio displays either. Internet radio? Yeah right.

It's all about "personal media' today.

A somewhat sad Lino

Lino, your description of the HD Radio displays in Manhattan is even more disturbing because that's the place where this new technology should really be available in abundance....and clearly it's not.

It's to the point that I rarely buy a radio from a brick and mortar store (the above described HD radio being an important exception) because the selection of all radios is terrible at most stores. And, I happened upon my unit at a Best Buy in Nashua, NH where it was set up so that you could use the analog FM, but HD didn't penetrate the building. It was enough to sell me because the unit was the right size and had the right features (CD, FM, MP3, DVD, HD, etc.) and was the right size to fit our needs. The price was good too.

But, the emphasis is now clearly on personal audio and video. And, there is no public interest. Certainly not among the young people who work at retailers like Best Buy, Circuit City and RS. Frankly, it's why I get frustrated with the constant pursuit of lower and lower demos by radio stations. Because a growing number of listeners are older and are becoming disenfranchised. And, for everyone else, you need to make radio easy or it won't be used. HD Radio isn't easy - you have to go out of your way to make it work. People won't do that. It's one reason why all of these HD station spots are the present equivalent of throwing good money after bad. Until the end user experience improves (a lot), this technology is a turkey.

 

[KB1OKL]

HD Radio isn't easy - you have to go out of your way to make it work. People won't do that. It's one reason why all of these HD station spots are the present equivalent of throwing good money after bad.

They also make Beavis and Butthead looks like geniuses they are so insulting and stupid although I realize that is old news around here.

 

[MHB]

WSRS was Worcesters first FM (I believe), it stood for Worcester's Stereo Radio Station and if it is in glorious IBOC it is mentioned nowhere on their site including their history, it is a pretty popular station around here in offices, things like that.

It is in IBOC, and the HD2 channel is running as well.

There is one little mention of HD Radio on the website, as far as I can see, the slogan "listen in HD Radio" and a picture of a radio.

 

[JohnnyElectron]

Quest to buy an HD Radio in Toledo:
Went to a Best Buy store there a few weeks ago and stretched-out the FM dipole and got it to receive (just) one FM in HD. Went there again last night and they now have the FM dipole twisted into a small 4" tight circle and tie-wrapped to a metal 'grid'. Same for the AM antenna - tie-wrapped to the chunk of metal. Needless to say, the superb Sony radio now sounds like crap with virtually no antennae. Not good.

 

[staticradio]

Best Buy (as well as most electronic stores) seems to not want to promote and/or play the HD Radios they have. I always thought it would seem wise to wanting to sell your stock and not sit on it. Usually, I'd do the same with the Sony XDR-S3HD: turn it on, extend the (FM) antenna as best as I can (despite it being a metal / concrete building), and pull at least half of the stations in HD in the TC's.

 

[KB1OKL]

If I were a retailer trying to make money on sales, I certainly wouldn't waste my time on a proven failure. After all it's been around for several years and NO ONE even knows what it is and even worse no one cares. If there is a need for a new product it will sell and won't need to be continually pushed and bullied into people's consciousness, if it were so great and selling so great why are the pro-IBOC'ers (all three of them left) so defensive? This wake has been much too long why don't we just get the burial over with?

 

[Savage]

UPDATE! "The HD Radio Shopping Spree continues....if that term can be applied to a dismal scrounge for an invisible product..."

Sunday afternoon brought me to the Rochester metro's most upscale shopping mecca, Eastview Mall, where I dropped by the Radio Shack there In Search Of HD Radio.

Nothing. Not even "Manager's Special" closeouts.

An inquiry about HD Radio and its Accurian version to the chipper, preppie guys behind the counter brought blank stares. They looked at each other. They had never heard of HD Radio. "We've...um....never carried those," one told me, looking at his colleague. "Yeah, I just don't know. You might want to try online....?" said the other.

 

[Dighton Rockhead]

An inquiry about HD Radio and its Accurian version to the chipper, preppie guys behind the counter brought blank stares. They looked at each other. They had never heard of HD Radio. "We've...um....never carried those," one told me, looking at his colleague. "Yeah, I just don't know. You might want to try online....?" said the other.

Although this is just one anecdotal example......to me, it pretty much sums up the dynamic going on with Ibiquity's 'ugly duckling'.

A digital audio transmission system that actually worked well, had signal range equal or better than analog, easy to use right out of the box, and that consumers felt offered tangible, measurable benefit to them would be SELLING ITSELF.

IBOC is not going away......if only because Ibiquity and the Alliance are still around to keep providing cash transfusions to keep the sick patient from death's door.

As to the patient's long-term prognosis?......I'm not a doctor...I don't even play one on the radio.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

IBOC is not going away......if only because Ibiquity and the Alliance are still around to keep providing cash transfusions to keep the sick patient from death's door.

I'm more interested at this point in the technology that IBOC spurred - the adaptive IF chipsets. They widen up for IBOC, narrow for analog, and get really narrow for distant stations. This has resulted in the best FM selectivity specs since the Marantz Model 10B! So when this IBOC cr@p goes away, those chipsets will still be available and will make incredible analog receivers.

A lot has been said about the impending death of HD radio. But - has anyone speculated as to the exact nature of decay once the patient is dead? How long until the remaining AM IBOC stations give up night operation, then day? How long until equipment maintenance isn't worth it any more for the dwindling numbers of listeners who still might be nursing along an old IBOC radio. 2 years night on AM, 5 years daytime analog AM? 10 years for FM? 20 maybe? I think we can use the example of C-Quam to make a guess.

 

[Board Editor]

MOVED: TIO: A Quest to Buy an HD Radio In Cincy ---

Some posts in this topic have been moved to Take It Outside.

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[Carmine5]

Went into a brand spanking new Best Buy this weekend. Best Buy is the store with a limited selection of a lot of stuff.

HD Radio was practically a no-show. No table top radios, no home A/V receivers. Only one in-dash radio on display had HD. The Insignia (obviously their house brand). The radio has a nice auto scan feature which will let you select HD only, including HD2 and HD-AM. HD FM tuned in fine and sounded very good, although I've heard well-engineered analog signals that sounded equally as good. Surprisingly, the HD2 sounded nice given its limited bit rate.

But HD-AM was another story. Los Angeles is swimming in HD-AM signals, from the great (KABC-KDIS), to the not so great (Crawford's KBRT). Alas, the Insignia was not able to lock on to any of them. Only analog.

The radio sells for $119.00 which is a good bargain until you rack up the installation costs. The salesman said that to install the Insignia in my '96 Volvo would cost about 95.00; 50.00 for the labor and 45.00 for the Volvo install kit. So the total would be 212.00+tax.

Needless to say (then why say it, right?), I was the only one looking at the Insignia HD receiver. Everyone else was either looking at HDTVs, the new MacBook Air or the iPod Touch.

Recognition is not the same as desire.

C5

 

[JohnnyElectron]

I still can't get my BestBuy to cut the ty-rap off of the 4" coil of wire for the FM antenna for the Sony HD tabletop radio, or cut the wraps off of the AM loop, secured to a metal grid - works like crap.

Then I go to their Satellite area, and ran the 2-0-7-XM 'diagnostic' and both SATs are coming in with 0% BER. Asked the sales droid how they're getting such a perfect satellite reception, and he said that they've installed a little 'dish' type antenna for the satrads on the store roof.
Maybe HD needs to do the same - build freaking little (HD) AM/FM antenna repeaters for the store?.

 

[Chuck]

I don't know how they sell radios these days. They must just be impulse buys. Most don't work while on display. For a while a local Best Buy store had the Sony HD radio in a reasonably prominent position, hooked up to an external antenna. It worked great in analog, but no HD. That was not a big surprise, since there is no HD within about 60 miles. The other day, I visited the place on another quest. Taking some time to browse around, I noticed they had moved the radio to a position in the abyss of the store, next to the door the employees use to go into the warehouse area. It did have a nice white RG-6 cable connected to the radio's F Connector. It must have been a decoration. In its new location, the radio received absolutely NOTHING, analog or otherwise.

I think that is too bad, because it seems to be a fairly worthy radio. I guess it is amazing that it was even plugged into an outlet. In lots of stores, nothing powers up.

 

[JJS]

Maybe HD needs to do the same - build freaking little (HD) AM/FM antenna repeaters for the store?.

That's just it. There is no entity called "HD" that can provide aggressive, end-to-end, product development, marketing and subsidies.

Sirius sells home repeaters that retransmit in the same manner and Sirius-owned bandwidth as regional terrestrial repeaters. They make the service easier to deploy at home and easier to demonstrate in the store.

An HD home repeater would have to retransmit the full bandwidth of FM radio, grotesquely violating Part 15 rules and making no friends in the process.

 

[Carmine5]

I don't know how they sell radios these days. They must just be impulse buys. Most don't work while on display. For a while a local Best Buy store had the Sony HD radio in a reasonably prominent position, hooked up to an external antenna. It worked great in analog, but no HD. That was not a big surprise, since there is no HD within about 60 miles. The other day, I visited the place on another quest. Taking some time to browse around, I noticed they had moved the radio to a position in the abyss of the store, next to the door the employees use to go into the warehouse area. It did have a nice white RG-6 cable connected to the radio's F Connector. It must have been a decoration. In its new location, the radio received absolutely NOTHING, analog or otherwise.

I think that is too bad, because it seems to be a fairly worthy radio. I guess it is amazing that it was even plugged into an outlet. In lots of stores, nothing powers up.

The Insignia had no trouble finding HD-FM channels so I'm assuming the radio was hooked to an external antenna. As for not locking on to an HD-AM signal, I can only guess that the AM tuning section is not very sensitive (a typical problem with low-end receivers as we know).

BTW, the radio has a front AUX input so you can plug in an MP3 player of your choice. The CD player is behind the front panel which flips down.

All-in-all, the Insignia seemed like a decent in-dash radio for the money. But it's obvious that HD Radio is not on the average person's radar (in spite of the intensive ad campaign) and that includes the manager at my new local Best Buy store.

C5