A small market station with a big market sound.

[radioman148]

In other words, going after 55 and over listeners is a nice way to get to bankruptcy fast.

For radio, maybe. But not for advertisers. In today's economy, this is the group that actually has some money in their pockets. Apparently advertisers are too dumb to figure that out. Or radio is too dumb to be able to convince advertisers of that.

I agree that it's dumb to ignore the 55+ demo. I've been contending that for years, but all we hear on many oldies stations are commercials for your retirement or your prostate.

 

[davideduardo]

For radio, maybe. But not for advertisers. In today's economy, this is the group that actually has some money in their pockets. Apparently advertisers are too dumb to figure that out. Or radio is too dumb to be able to convince advertisers of that.

As I have said before, the major advertisers who use ad agencies instruct the agencies specifically what ages to buy. The reason they do not buy 55+ is that hundreds of millions in research have shown that, generally, older consumers will buy, but only after hearing an ad message many more times that younger consumers. So it costs more to make the sale than the profit on the sale.

Radio has no ability to get to the client level and argue that the client's own research is wrong.

 

[radioman148]

>>Radio has no ability to get to the client level and argue that the client's own research is wrong. >>

That's too bad. Big mistake to ignore that age group.

 

[davideduardo]

>>Radio has no ability to get to the client level and argue that the client's own research is wrong. >>

That's too bad. Big mistake to ignore that age group.

On the local sales level, older consumers are often targeted... the local business owner does not have the same challenges of overcoming brand loyalty that national brands and services have. This is why you can find successful standards, 60's oldies and other older leaning formats in smaller markets.

But the agency accounts are bought with a mandate to target specific demographics. In some cases, product testing and packaging were designed for one target demo. In others, it is simply the fact that advertisers such as P&G know who buys and what each sale costs... when you look at more brand loyal or analytical consumers, the cost of the sale does not justify targeting some demos.

Just as there is a reason why beer ads don't target women, because there is little profit or gain, most clients of agencies don't target 55+ either. It's not profitable.

 

[radioman148]

I can understand the big market VS little market logic.

 

[TheFonz]

Radio has no ability to get to the client level and argue that the client's own research is wrong.

Radio can do its own selling. I believe it's called "brokered time".

 

[davideduardo]

Radio has no ability to get to the client level and argue that the client's own research is wrong.

Radio can do its own selling. I believe it's called "brokered time".

"Brokered Time" is where a licensee sells blocks of time on a station to an entity or individual who then programs that time and sells spots and sponsorships within it. Typical brokered stations are many of those owned by Multicultural Broadcasting, which seel hours and multiples to brokers who do whatever they want with the time. Generally, the biggest market for brokered time is for ethnic programming... in Los Angeles, there are a half dozen stations, none showing any ratings, which have predominantly Asian language programs (Mandarin, Tagalog, Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc.) which are sponsored by the various Asian business communities and interests.

Radio, as a rule, does not sell directly to ad agency accounts as that damages the agency relationship and can result in the station losin g business unless the agency gives prior approval becaus the station interests are deemd to be agency and client interests, too.

 

[TheFonz]

"Brokered Time" is where a licensee sells blocks of time on a station to an entity or individual who then programs that time and sells spots and sponsorships within it.

So if I were interested in reaching a 55+ audience with a product or products, the station would sell me a block of time. I could then program, for example, Oldies, and promote my products. Or, I could find my own sponsers to pay for the time. Is that correct?

 

[davideduardo]

"Brokered Time" is where a licensee sells blocks of time on a station to an entity or individual who then programs that time and sells spots and sponsorships within it.

So if I were interested in reaching a 55+ audience with a product or products, the station would sell me a block of time. I could then program, for example, Oldies, and promote my products. Or, I could find my own sponsers to pay for the time. Is that correct?

No. A broker does not buy time to advertise their own products. That is either a sponsorship of regular programming (with the station's regular format), or an infomercial (where an advertiser does whatever they want for a period of time and hawks their product).

A broker buys time, produces programming, and then sells advertising to third parties in the time that they buy. It´s sort of like a wholesaler.

 

[TheFonz]

[
...........................or an infomercial (where an advertiser does whatever they want for a period of time and hawks their product).

A broker buys time, produces programming, and then sells advertising to third parties in the time that they buy. It´s sort of like a wholesaler.

O.K. Let's call it an infomercial. I sit down in the studio, play some Oldies, and hawk my product. Or I go out and find some people who want me to hawk their products, collect money from them, and pay the station for the time. That should work, right?

 

[elchupacabras]

O.K. Let's call it an infomercial. I sit down in the studio, play some Oldies, and hawk my product. Or I go out and find some people who want me to hawk their products, collect money from them, and pay the station for the time. That should work, right?

A major over simplification. There are brokered stations that are 24/7. You are thinking likely of just certain dayparts.

 

[oaktree]

But first, have checkbook handy and a sizeable amount of money in it.

Brokered rates for "infomercials" on Saturday morning in LA, on a 5,000 watt AM will set you back, with breaks for the station as well, a mere $6000, with a 13-week minimum.  That's $78,000, not counting an agency commission, if you can one to place it.

And that's for an AM station ... one called, K-F-W-B.  Maybe you've heard of it.

Anything below that might get you a discount, if you don't mind not being heard at all.  And still, it will cost you $1500 bucks an hour or more.

Oldies on K-F-W-B .... just like it used to be!  Sure, somebody would pay you to allow you to pay off the debt. Let's see, 10 minutes an hour, sell only thirty second spots, that's 20 spots, divided into $6000.  Heck, that's only $300 bucks a spot! Such a deal! Wait, who's gonna jock this fab hour of "Solid Gold?" That costs extra. Then, a producer. A board op. OK, $400 a spot, that's one fifth the cost for one spot on KIIS-FM!  What a bargain!  And you only need to sell ... 15 of those bad boys an hour.  OK, sell two sponsor six spots an hour at $1500 each ($3000), then, give a discount down to ... no, can't do that, because then you merely break even. 4 spots per break, five breaks ... yeah, that's the ticket!

Um, never mind. Oldies won't work on KFWB.  Sorry. Could you be interested in something in the Inland Empire, maybe? It's not the same as El Lay, but it will only cost you, oh, a grand an hour.  Problem is, there are no advertisers.

Happy brokering!

 

[radioman148]

But first, have checkbook handy and a sizeable amount of money in it.

Brokered rates for "infomercials" on Saturday morning in LA, on a 5,000 watt AM will set you back, with breaks for the station as well, a mere $6000, with a 13-week minimum. That's $78,000, not counting an agency commission, if you can one to place it.

And that's for an AM station ... one called, K-F-W-B. Maybe you've heard of it.

Anything below that might get you a discount, if you don't mind not being heard at all. And still, it will cost you $1500 bucks an hour or more.

Oldies on K-F-W-B .... just like it used to be! Sure, somebody would pay you to allow you to pay off the debt. Let's see, 10 minutes an hour, sell only thirty second spots, that's 20 spots, divided into $6000. Heck, that's only $300 bucks a spot! Such a deal! Wait, who's gonna jock this fab hour of "Solid Gold?" That costs extra. Then, a producer. A board op. OK, $400 a spot, that's one fifth the cost for one spot on KIIS-FM! What a bargain! And you only need to sell ... 15 of those bad boys an hour. OK, sell two sponsor six spots an hour at $1500 each ($3000), then, give a discount down to ... no, can't do that, because then you merely break even. 4 spots per break, five breaks ... yeah, that's the ticket!

Um, never mind. Oldies won't work on KFWB. Sorry. Could you be interested in something in the Inland Empire, maybe? It's not the same as El Lay, but it will only cost you, oh, a grand an hour. Problem is, there are no advertisers.

Happy brokering!

I think I'd rather keep my product off the radio.

 

[Silkie]

What Oldbones is trying to say , billyg, is that terrestrial radio isn't trying to program to YOU. It's trying to manufacture a younger audience. Try satellite radio.

No, what Oldbones was trying to say is now that I'm an adult I want a station that treats me like one. I'm not stuck in 1965 and I don't want a station that is, either.

Then why not just buy a few CDs?

I bought a few 45s
Then I bought a few albums
Then I bought a few cassette tapes
Then I bought a few compact discs

All so that I could hear what I wanted to hear once in awhile and enjoy it, without all the crap that went along with a request or that otherwise went along with the music for so long. In between I bought a whopping three 8 tracks.

And then I ran out of room, but I will buy more if I really want to hear the music.

 

[radioman148]

What Oldbones is trying to say , billyg, is that terrestrial radio isn't trying to program to YOU. It's trying to manufacture a younger audience. Try satellite radio.

No, what Oldbones was trying to say is now that I'm an adult I want a station that treats me like one. I'm not stuck in 1965 and I don't want a station that is, either.

Try an ipod or another similar product. You can load all your favorite stuff and shuffle it. I even have Top 40 DJs shows from the 60s on mine so the era never dies.


Then why not just buy a few CDs?

I bought a few 45s
Then I bought a few albums
Then I bought a few cassette tapes
Then I bought a few compact discs

All so that I could hear what I wanted to hear once in awhile and enjoy it, without all the crap that went along with a request or that otherwise went along with the music for so long. In between I bought a whopping three 8 tracks.

And then I ran out of room, but I will buy more if I really want to hear the music.

 

[TheFonz]

I bought a few 45s
Then I bought a few albums
Then I bought a few cassette tapes
Then I bought a few compact discs

All so that I could hear what I wanted to hear once in awhile and enjoy it, without all the crap that went along with a request or that otherwise went along with the music for so long. In between I bought a whopping three 8 tracks.

And then I ran out of room, but I will buy more if I really want to hear the music.

I hear you. But sadly, what we don't hear is the DJs. That's what's missing.

 

[radioman148]

I bought a few 45s
Then I bought a few albums
Then I bought a few cassette tapes
Then I bought a few compact discs

All so that I could hear what I wanted to hear once in awhile and enjoy it, without all the crap that went along with a request or that otherwise went along with the music for so long. In between I bought a whopping three 8 tracks.

And then I ran out of room, but I will buy more if I really want to hear the music.

I hear you. But sadly, what we don't hear is the DJs. That's what's missing.

Yup, missing the DJs is very sad. It can never be the same.

 

[oaktree]

... or listen to Terry "Motormouth" Young on Sirius / XM's "Sixties on Six." Old act ... older today, especially at $14 a month. Everyday, in fact.

Tom Kent is syndicated on a lot of stations, not just on KLUV.

 

[radioman148]

... or listen to Terry "Motormouth" Young on Sirius / XM's "Sixties on Six." Old act ... older today, especially at $14 a month. Everyday, in fact.

Tom Kent is syndicated on a lot of stations, not just on KLUV.

"Motormouth" sounded alot better before the merger when sirius neutered him & all the others.