A year and a half after the DTV transition, and it still sucks

[vchimpanzee]

I suppose the perfect antenna would be a highly-directional unit that would automatically find the best direction for the station selected and automatically move to that direction when that station is chosen. To my knowledge it doesn't exist.

Wall-E from Radio Shack, which is what I call it, comes with a remote you can use to select the channel and, once you have determined the correct direction for each channel and programmed it into the remote, you can select the direction that way. So every time you change the channel you have to use two remotes.

 

[vchimpanzee]

It is clear to me the FCC made a purely political decision and intentionally overlooked the many deficiencies of digital TV before mandating the DTV switch.

Oh, and the BIG advertised benefit of DTV, the sub-channels? Virtually a waste of time. Worthless.

That and HDTV. Without analog shutting down, it would be too expensive to keep running both signals.

The idea was that digital would be more efficient. It isn't just subchannels as they exist now. There are rumors on this board of a second transition, where many of the stations now operating will have to give up their frequencies for wireless broadband. Where will they go? Why, subchannels that used to be the main channel would be a good idea.

 

[WPPCProductions]

I have to agree on this comment .Ok please correct me if i'm wrong.They needed the upper channels for Emergency response and other communications.now .so update me what they did with these channels.I have nothing against the FCC lopping off these channels anyway.
I live in a ditch and only receive 1 channel now with DTV ,analog was a better performer then this dtv system.The only plus is the subchannels.
Now I cant wait when the FCC tells us it time to trash our AM/FM radios for some digital ideas that wont work.

 

[Dtv]

I went out and bought one of those flat antennas made by RCA when the transition happened, and I've been through numerous antennas since. My TV doesn't need a converter box. I live about 30 miles or so from Houston, and I hardly get any channels. When it was still analog, I got every channel.

Problem is, when the signal actually comes in and works for a while, I love it. But that is a very rare occurrence. Most of the time, I get a black screen or if I'm lucky a bunch of pixels.

Wait, one of these?

http://amzn.com/B0027FGW3K

That RCA called that an antenna is a scam. You need at least some type of decent indoor antenna to have any hope of reception.
sothat antenna is not good? Well that might explain a few things. Tv was never a problem pre dtv switch over and now it is horrible but, maybe its the fact I have horrible antenna?

 

[tripinva]

Yes, that antenna is terrible. Do not use that antenna and hope to receive anything reliably.

- Trip

 

[flashback]

i replaced my cheap tv antena which i hated the job it did with a amplified hdtv antena and i lost a bunch of channels and i can`t get a good signal on my favorite over the air channel .this tv.

damn the people who are responsible for the change to digital tv.

 

[gregg75]

Try moving it around.....you gotta find that one "sweet spot" and leave it there. I've also
heard people on here say that pointing to a mountain or large rock is sometimes good
because the signal bounces off them.

 

[flashback]

^ the tv i am refering to is the one in my bedroom.i don`t have the room to find the place to get the channels in.

my thing is tv reception, non-cable i mean, before was much better before digital tv.there were stations that came in fuzzy but but they came in. now some are hard to tune in at all.if not totally blocked.

chanel 8 , wish -tv, here in the analog days had good reception about all over even with antenas lowered or not connected.now it doesn`t come in on my bedroom tv.

again curse the people responsible.they should have waited for the bugs to be worked out before it was the freakin law of the land.

 

[tripinva]

Chances are that you actually do not want an amplified antenna. When you're close in, amplified antennas usually do more harm than good. Try a proper passive (non-amplified) antenna instead. The Terk HDTVi is supposed to be decent though I have no hands-on experience with it.

- Trip

 

[flashback]

i am tired of things at the point you need to have to be an engineer to deal properly with setup and and knowledge of what to get to set up basic entertanment appliances.

damn i miss the 20th century.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Cursing the DTV transition is going to get you nowhere.

 

[flashback]

i`ve tried rolling with the punches and doing what i could to make it work without spending a fortune to watch tv.its doing me little good.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

i`ve tried rolling with the punches and doing what i could to make it work without spending a fortune to watch tv.its doing me little good.

Is griping about it constantly on a message board going to bring back analog full-power broadcasting? No.

Could enlisting help from people here, for possible solutions that won't cost you "a fortune", help? Maybe, even a little.

Let's try to set some things straight here.

* You mentioned:

before was much better before digital tv.there were stations that came in fuzzy but but they came in. now some are hard to tune in at all.if not totally blocked.

First of all, the stations that "came in fuzzy" are likely not going to show up in digital, unless their digital facilities are more powerful than analog (generally not likely, as the digital signals generally should match the coverage area of the analog, give or take some).

Lower-powered signals in analog = fuzzy reception. Lower-powered signals in digital = not enough to decode...there is no such thing as "fuzzy digital". There's a bit on the edge where the picture will break up, but generally speaking, it's there or it isn't.

You again:

chanel 8 , wish -tv, here in the analog days had good reception about all over even with antenas lowered or not connected.now it doesn`t come in on my bedroom tv.

OK, so you're in Indianapolis. (Trying to help someone with digital TV issues without knowing what market you're in is like trying to help fix a car when someone comes up to you and says "my car doesn't work, what's wrong?")

And boom, we have found your problem with WISH's digital signal - it is on digital channel 9 ("RF channel"), and the digital boxes translate it to 8.1 (etc.) automatically.

9 is still VHF, and those signals are notoriously hard to get indoors, much more so than in analog days...mostly, because digital power on VHF isn't at a high enough level for most stations.

WISH digital is running anywhere from 19 kW to 22 kW according to the FCC database. That's better than our VHF problem children here in the Cleveland market, but still probably low enough to cause problems with indoor antennas.

It'd certainly explain why you can't get WISH. Here, I can only occasionally get our two VHF full-power stations.

I don't know the Indianapolis market, but I'd suggest a trip to these sites:

http://www.tvfool.com/
http://www.antennaweb.org/

They will help you get an idea of what's out there, and what kind of signals you can get. But I'd advise that ANY antenna, even an indoor one, at very least be pointing out a window in the direction of the TV transmitters (the sites will help you figure out where those are).

 

[w9wi]

I have a bad feeling I'm being redundant here but...

In general, when you have a problem with a digital VHF station, you should start by looking at the antenna.

Unfortunately, a number of antennas have been sold that are not suitable for receiving VHF stations. (they wouldn't have worked worth a darn for analog VHF either, but since the packaging marked them as "digital antennas" nobody tried to use them for analog...) If your antenna doesn't have "ears", as in the ears on a set of rabbit ears, you are VERY likely to have problems receiving stations on VHF frequencies. Your best bet is to replace it with a set of rabbit ears.

Another potential problem is the "amplified" or "boosted" antenna. The amplifier can overload, generating signals that interfere with the TV stations you're trying to receive. One particular problem can be if you live near the tower of an FM radio station. If you live near the tower of a station between 93 and 96 on the FM dial, an amplifier is likely to generate interference that will clobber WISH. An amplifier can also "overload" on the signal of the desired TV station -- digital signals can be *too strong*. I'm not completely familiar with the Indianapolis market but I would think if you're in Marion County you probably don't want an amplified antenna; it would probably also be a problem in areas near the Trafalgar towers.

If you needed an outdoor antenna for decent analog reception, you're going to need it for reliable digital reception. Unfortunately, I've seen indoor antennas for sale in areas where they stand little chance of working... 40, 50 miles from the nearest station...

If you have an outdoor antenna available, try it. Even if it's not a "digital" antenna. If it delivered decent analog pictures it will almost certainly work fine for digital. We have heard from more than one viewer who's bought a new HDTV -- and been told by the store that their existing analog antenna won't work -- only to learn that the fancy digital antenna they were sold is the one that doesn't work.

Really, I think a very large share of the blame for the problems in the DTV transition belongs to the stores selling the antennas. It's kinda like selling someone a new computer, then telling them their existing DSL Internet service won't work with the new computer, they have to get a cable modem -- only for the buyer to learn cable internet isn't available at their location.

 

[flashback]

i do appriciate all of the advice and help.i am hopefully going to be able to find the antenna i need for reception.

sometimes i need to vent.i was very angry durring my last few posts in this thread.even when i am calm i do hate the switch to dtv.lol

 

[dave73]

If you have an outdoor antenna available, try it. Even if it's not a "digital" antenna. If it delivered decent analog pictures it will almost certainly work fine for digital. We have heard from more than one viewer who's bought a new HDTV -- and been told by the store that their existing analog antenna won't work -- only to learn that the fancy digital antenna they were sold is the one that doesn't work.

Really, I think a very large share of the blame for the problems in the DTV transition belongs to the stores selling the antennas. It's kinda like selling someone a new computer, then telling them their existing DSL Internet service won't work with the new computer, they have to get a cable modem -- only for the buyer to learn cable internet isn't available at their location.

When I got my converter boxes, & got around to getting new coax hooked up to the outdoor antenna I bought in 2002, & used that antenna for DTV. Since it was already optimized for 2-69, I was one of a few who got WBBM-TV on channel 3. I found rabbit ears did not work in my own home, & had no choice, but to go with an outdoor antenna. Even today, many sales people (in my area, mainly Best Buy & Walmart) insist that you need one of those square antennas to get the DTV signals. My cousin's boyfriend even said the same thing. I told herboyfriend that it doesn't work with VHF stations. He told me that a TV station is a TV station, & you can use any antenna to get them. I said No you can't. The size of the antenna elements matter even more for digital than for analog. Obviously, this is coming from someone who grew up on cable TV. While I grew up on cable in my teens, I remember when even in the late 70's & early 80's, outdoor antennas were still needed in my area. You were lucky if Spectrum & ONTV were available in the early 80's, & that required a special UHF antenna (one neighbor of my grandma's had Spectrum while we had ONTV). There are people even on this board, along with other boards insist on using 4 & 8 bay whisker antennas for channels 7-13, even though it's not guaranteed to work.

 

[KeithE4]

While I grew up on cable in my teens, I remember when even in the late 70's & early 80's, outdoor antennas were still needed in my area. You were lucky if Spectrum & ONTV were available in the early 80's, & that required a special UHF antenna (one neighbor of my grandma's had Spectrum while we had ONTV). There are people even on this board, along with other boards insist on using 4 & 8 bay whisker antennas for channels 7-13, even though it's not guaranteed to work.

The only thing "special" that was required for ON-TV (Ch. 44), SportsVision (Ch. 60), and Spectrum (Ch. 66) was that the UHF antenna gave good performance on the upper channels. It was the descrambler box (or a VCR with thumbwheel tuning, which is what I used for Sox and Bulls games, with the sound coming from the radio) that was required to get those services. A UHF antenna is a UHF antenna, regardless if the signal is analog, analog-scrambled, or digital.

In other words, if you could watch the White Sox on WSNS-TV/44 in 1980, you could watch ON-TV on WSNS-TV/44 in 1981 with the same antenna, provided you had the descrambler box, of course. You will also be able to watch WLS-TV/44 once they move from RF 7 (assuming they haven't done so already).

I lived in Palatine IL at that time - about 30 miles NW of downtown - in a 2nd-floor apartment facing SE, and had no problem with any of the Chicago UHFs with an indoor Radio Shack double-bowtie antenna with reflector. I would guess that if this antenna is still available, it would work fairly well for today's digital stations on UHF. Not VHF, though.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I've made a number of negative comments about DTV on other threads. It might be useful to link to those from here.

Just last week I had two problems. I feel I've gotten the converter box in the perfect position now. In fact, for the five channels I picked up two years ago, somehow everything worked out pefectly. I had no problems. Later, I moved the TV under the box and it took some effort to get the wire back in the right position. Amazingly, it was perfect to begin with--I've never moved the round amplified antenna. But one problem I had after time had passed was the wire coming loose from the box. I knew this because the outgoing wire was also loose at times. You know this is the problem if you get snowy reception, because that means the signal from the box is a problem. I tried plugging the wire back in last week when I was getting a lot of pixellation, and it seemed to work. The pixellation was back on Friday, but we have had warmer weather and some wind.

I can't imagine what it must have been like for those manning the help lines, given all the problems you can have with a DTV signal.

Cable, of course, is nearly perfect. I do pay nearly twice what I was paying to begin with at first, since that was a special price for all of us who needed to upgrade. I've had very few problems and rarely watch DTV.

 

[vchimpanzee]

First of all, the stations that "came in fuzzy" are likely not going to show up in digital, unless their digital facilities are more powerful than analog (generally not likely, as the digital signals generally should match the coverage area of the analog, give or take some).

With the antenna I call Wall-E, I picked up the "nightlight station" perfectly. It was fuzzy before with rabbit ears. Its digital station came in okay on that antenna when I turned it acordingly, but I generally keep that TV on the one station. The round amplified antenna points the wrong way, so that's probably why I don't get that station in the other room.

I found the box Wall-E came in, and it just says "Radio Shack Amplified Indoor HDTV Antenna". I couldn't find this particular model the last time I went in a Radio Shack, but its UPC is 4029301339. The neat thing about this one is it comes with a remote which, once you set each channel's direction, will let you move the antenna. Which means you have to use two remotes each time you change channels.

 

[KeithE4]

I've made a number of negative comments about DTV on other threads. It might be useful to link to those from here.

Just last week I had two problems. I feel I've gotten the converter box in the perfect position now. In fact, for the five channels I picked up two years ago, somehow everything worked out pefectly. I had no problems. Later, I moved the TV under the box and it took some effort to get the wire back in the right position. Amazingly, it was perfect to begin with--I've never moved the round amplified antenna. But one problem I had after time had passed was the wire coming loose from the box. I knew this because the outgoing wire was also loose at times. You know this is the problem if you get snowy reception, because that means the signal from the box is a problem. I tried plugging the wire back in last week when I was getting a lot of pixellation, and it seemed to work. The pixellation was back on Friday, but we have had warmer weather and some wind.

The location of the converter box itself shouldn't matter much, but if it's on top of the set it could pick up digital garbage from the TV itself (even analog sets had some digital circuitry unless they were so old they didn't have remotes). Those harmonics can get into the UHF range. Those cheap converter boxes are today's equivalent of 1960s-vintage UHF tuners - the ones with a single diode mixer and one-transistor local oscillator: maybe (and I do mean "maybe!") one notch above worthless. I found that separating the box from the TV by a couple of feet did wonders, back when I had one.

But are you using a single wire as an antenna?!?!? If so, no wonder you're having problems. I hope you meant "coax." And even that could be a problem if you're using cheap Radio Shack stuff or a relic that came with an old VCR (or your converter itself - same bad quality). The shielding is as bad as the converter boxes themselves. It also breaks easily. Get cable-quality RG-6 coax with good F connectors (the kind that twist on, NOT the push-on kind that VCR cables came with). It's just as foolish to skimp on an antenna system today as it was decades ago. You get what you pay for.