• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Add Another AM Rebroadcast to the FM Translator List (WBIB in Centreville)

R

R.D.P.

Discovered this one today. It seems that WBIB 1110 AM in Centreville, is now being rebroadcasted on a translator, at 107.3 FM, in Brent.

Heard the announcer speak of this, before the news came on, during the 2 P.M. hour.

WBIB is still catering to Southern Gospel music.

Last time I checked, WBIB was a daytimer. Now that they have a FM Translator, are they now licensed for 24 hours? Just curious.

R.D.P. <><
 
I think they have been on this translator for about 2 or 3 months now. I was told the station could be licensed to run ONE WATT at night or could build another tower and go directional at night with 2 watts of power. Night time operation at this power is just not worth the trouble. However they are allowed to program the translator 24 hours a day.
 
If that's the case then what does this translator rebroadcast, once WBIB signs off?

Maybe this answer will explain to me what Mr. King will broadcast, after sunset, if the FCC approves his request to carry WJUS at 94.3 FM in Selma.

WJUS still signs off at sunset, although they are allowed to broadcast with 34 watts at night.

R.D.P. <><

If WJUS does move to Selma, will they broadcast 24 hours or stay a daytimer only? Just curious.
 
As I understand it the translator has its audio fed from the same source as the AM transmitter. When signoff time comes the AM transmitter is cut off but the studio keeps feeding program audio to the translator. This also serves to give towns that have no decent night time service a local 24 hour local service.
As long as the AM is on the air the translator must carry the same programming, but after the AM signs off for the night the translator is allowed to keep operating with its own programming.
This is what several station owners and engineers have told me. I hope I got it right.
 
If WJUS moves to Selma they will only have 16 watts night time. This may provide service within a few miles of the tower but with several other stations in the U S and Mexico and some in Cuba with power up to 80KW operating on this frequency at night 16 watts will have a hard time overcoming the skywave interference. His translator should give much better coverage at night than the AM signal will.
I think WBIB has to protect WBT in North Carolina. They are licensed as a 50KW day and night station. The skywave signal of WBIB cannot be any stronger than "X" amount of millivolts inside of the WBT "X" millivolt signal area. This is why they can only get such low power at night.
You will have to talk to an engineer to fill in the "X". I know enough about this to be very dangerous.
 
wayne said:
I think they have been on this translator for about 2 or 3 months now. I was told the station could be licensed to run ONE WATT at night or could build another tower and go directional at night with 2 watts of power. Night time operation at this power is just not worth the trouble. However they are allowed to program the translator 24 hours a day.
Click to expand...

You could at least be optimistic and say they could double their power by going directional. ;)

Heck, the translator is only 6 watts - my sneezes are heard further away than this thing.
 
wayne said:
As I understand it the translator has its audio fed from the same source as the AM transmitter. When signoff time comes the AM transmitter is cut off but the studio keeps feeding program audio to the translator. This also serves to give towns that have no decent night time service a local 24 hour local service.
As long as the AM is on the air the translator must carry the same programming, but after the AM signs off for the night the translator is allowed to keep operating with its own programming.
This is what several station owners and engineers have told me. I hope I got it right.
Click to expand...

Right now, the FCC rules do not allow FM translators to relay AM stations.

So, the Commission has been issuing waivers to individual stations on a fairly routine basis. Since they're waiving the rules in the first place, they can pretty much choose as they go along with the rest. Including allowing the translator to remain on after the AM transmitter goes off.

They're looking at permanently changing the rules to allow relay of AM stations. This proposal would allow the translator to cover the area reached by the AM station's daytime signal. If the AM must reduce power or go off the air at sunset -- the FM can keep on cranking out full power. I would be 99% sure these rules will be adopted, probably sometime later this spring or early summer.
 
w9wi said:
They're looking at permanently changing the rules to allow relay of AM stations. This proposal would allow the translator to cover the area reached by the AM station's daytime signal. If the AM must reduce power or go off the air at sunset -- the FM can keep on cranking out full power. I would be 99% sure these rules will be adopted, probably sometime later this spring or early summer.
Click to expand...

Really? The full daytime signal? That's not how I understood it. I figured it'd be small 25-30 watt translators in the COL for stations that were basically daytimers anyway. But they'd want the translators to match AM day coverage?

That's truly mind boggling. It's more of a money/spectrum grab than I feared. I wasn't totally opposed to it at first--I thought it'd be one way to help the smaller stations that must sign off or keep solvency within their local areas. But, IMO, what w9wi described sounds like a back-door FM station operation. I really don't like the prospects of just giving those operators that big of a gift, considering the FM spectrum is so precious as it is.
 
Is there some reason I'm not seeing as to why the FCC is not doing the sensible thing and opening a one-time window for existing AM stations to leave the AM band for FM where channels are available like the Canadians have been doing for a decade or more now?
 
Translators are limited to 250 watts maximum ERP. Not all translators can be licensed at this power due to co-channel stations. An AM station will be allowed to get on the strongest translator it can find but it must be within the AM stations 2 Millivolt coverage area.
I dont think the fcc will ever open a window for AMs to move to the FM band. There are not many FM channels that can be used now. At least not here in the south. And the FCC is not going to give anything away. Most small AM stations could not afford the auction process and the fcc wont bypass it. Auction is $$$$$$$$ to them.
I think the auction process has put an end to the everyday person being able to own there own station. Now days if you are lucky enough to find a channel you would have to bid on it and some big corporation with many $$$$ will end up out bidding you for it.
Why has'nt some minority group filled a class action suit against the government because of this? Look at how many of them it has kept out of the broadcasting bussines.

Oh well that can be another post.
 
Nate Wesley said:
Really? The full daytime signal? That's not how I understood it. I figured it'd be small 25-30 watt translators in the COL for stations that were basically daytimers anyway. But they'd want the translators to match AM day coverage?

That's truly mind boggling. It's more of a money/spectrum grab than I feared. I wasn't totally opposed to it at first--I thought it'd be one way to help the smaller stations that must sign off or keep solvency within their local areas. But, IMO, what w9wi described sounds like a back-door FM station operation. I really don't like the prospects of just giving those operators that big of a gift, considering the FM spectrum is so precious as it is.
Click to expand...

The full daytime signal is only one of three parts of the limit on the coverage of a translator of an AM station. The translator's coverage is also limited by the 250-watt overall power limit for translators. (which will in most cases limit the FM coverage to far less than the daytime AM coverage) In many cases it will also be limited by the need to avoid interference to full-power FM stations and other translators. In practice, few FM translators will come anywhere near exceeding the daytime coverage of the associated AM station.

The restriction probably exists more for the benefit of the *FM* service. Imagine an FM station with a protected coverage of 28km, and a translator with a protected coverage of 10km. If the translator is located at the FM transmitter site, of course its coverage area will be entirely within that of the full-power station. However, if the translator is located 20km from the FM transmitter site, the translator's coverage will extend 2km past that of the full-power station.

The FCC didn't want, for example, a 6,000-watt FM station in Guntersville to use a translator in Gardendale as a way of getting a "back-door" signal into Birmingham.

Due to the extremely limited *nighttime* powers (and highly-directional patterns) of many AM stations, it will be quite common for the translator coverage to far exceed the *nighttime* AM coverage.

I do however think this is indeed a means of getting a "back-door FM operation" for most of these stations.
 
R.D.P. said:
Discovered this one today. It seems that WBIB 1110 AM in Centreville, is now being rebroadcasted on a translator, at 107.3 FM, in Brent.

Heard the announcer speak of this, before the news came on, during the 2 P.M. hour.

WBIB is still catering to Southern Gospel music.

Last time I checked, WBIB was a daytimer. Now that they have a FM Translator, are they now licensed for 24 hours? Just curious.

R.D.P. <><
Click to expand...

RDP,

Here is another one to add to that list (at least a proposed one, anyhow). I found this on the FCC website today. It's a request to rebroadcast WJRD-AM on a translator in Tuscaloosa.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=624248


_______________________
What If...
Radio Didn't Exist?
www.LifeWithoutRadio.com
 
Thanks for the info. Mr. Zach may want to check into that one and then add it to his awesome web site.

WJUS from Marion is still working on establishing a rebroadcast at 94.3 here in Selma. Right now, this translator is still rebroadcasting WMBV from Dixon's Mills Alabama.

R.D.P. <><
 
R.D.P. said:
Thanks for the info. Mr. Zach may want to check into that one and then add it to his awesome web site.

WJUS from Marion is still working on establishing a rebroadcast at 94.3 here in Selma. Right now, this translator is still rebroadcasting WMBV from Dixon's Mills Alabama.

R.D.P. <><
Click to expand...

Actually, the listing for the Tuscaloosa translator is already up on the site. I think I put "JRD Inc" and WJRD together before even investigating. ;)
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom