AFR Starts New Talk Network - CCM and Classic Gospel Networks Dropped

[anotherguyTN]

I found out recently that American Family Radio was starting a new talk network. I had found out that WAMP 88.1 in Jackson, TN was going to be a part of that, but since then I've found out that the talk network will be made up of all of AFR's former CCM and Classic Gospel networks. The network started on Monday. Some music is still being used as filler, but this is leaning toward softer CCM like is being done on their regular network, and more of this will gradually be filled with more talk and teaching programs. The CCM and Classic Gospel networks are still available online.

Here is a link to AFR's announcement: http://afr.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=66&Itemid=28

I have mixed feelings about this. While I'm not totally opposed to AFR doing a talk network, and they seem to have a decent lineup of programs for the most part, I'm concerned with the total dropping of their CCM network. In Jackson we have K-LOVE and WTKB, a local CCM station, but both are AC, so the loss of AFR's CCM network is no problem except for the local programming. WAMP had local Christian rock and rap shows at night and on weekends that is being dropped. It looks like AFR could allow at least the weekend show to be moved to WIGH 88.7, their main station in the Jackson, but at present it doesn't look like that is going to happen.

Another concern I have is in areas where AFR's CCM network is the only option for CCM. I know that this is the case in Paducah KY, where I go occasionally. They may be on the outer fringes of other stations, but WGCF 89.3 there was switched to the talk network. Also, Tupelo, MS, where AFR is headquartered, will be left without a CCM station because of this change. Although AFR's CCM network wasn't the greatest, is was better than nothing in areas where it was the only alternative.

With the dropping of the CCM network I personally would like to see the music on AFR's regular network go more contemporary. They have gradually improved over the years, but they still lean more inspo than AC. The least they could do is to go back to having more CCM programming on weekends like they used to in their early years when they only had one network. This was dropped when they started their CCM network. I'm not holding my breath though.

To me AFR's CCM network had good music, but it was mostly AC, although Christian rock and rap was available locally nights and weekends on WAMP in Jackson. I don't know if that happened anywhere else or not. Their biggest shortcoming was that they didn't do anything to differentiate themselves from the regular network in their bumpers or filler between the music. It had too much of an "older" sound for a network that was supposed to be trying to reach younger listeners. It just seemed like it was an afterthought on how to fill time in areas where they had a second station. I won't really miss the AC network much myself, but I know there will be people who will miss it where it was the only alternative for CCM, and I will miss the local programming in Jackson.

 

[xmusicmatt]

WOW looking at their station listing they even turned some of their AFR normal stations into AFR Talk stations. WJJE deleware and WWGV Grove City here near Columbus did previously have the AFR Main format, they are now listed as AFR Talk stations...

I guess that makes sense cuz the other day (monday afternoon) I was listening to 89.1 WJJE and heard Point of View at 2pm eastern... this did not air on the inspo network prior.

I am kinda disapointed..

One side note, they need to fix the imedia touch PC powering the AFR talk, on Monday vinettes kept cutting each other off and when they went to point of view at 2:06 it cut off whatever was playing and you heard the last 10 seconds of the COMMERICAL that aired prior to the 06: start of Point of View on USA Radio Networks... looks like they threw this together quickly..

Guess I will be removing 89.1/88.1 from my presets here in Columbus (maybe they will some day sell the stations to EMF so we can have an Air1 station here).

 

[anotherguyTN]

I didn't notice until I looked at the station list but several regular AFR stations in TN changed as well. The more I look at the station list they probably have as many talk stations or more than they do on the regular network. After seeing this I think they really went overboard in how many stations they changed.

I could see changing some of the stations where there was an overlaap in areas, but totally blowing up two of their networks and cutting so deep into the main network is definitely going too far.

 

[xmusicmatt]

Looking at the list further, it looks like they did a reversal, pretty much the MAIN network now is AFR Talk with the inspo being second tier now (Inspo used to be the Main Network with AC and Classics being second)

Almost all their translators that previously had the inspo network (main network) is are now AFR Talk... I know all their stations in Ohio prior except 1 was AFR Inspo and now their all listed as AFR Talk...

It's interesting that AFA has taken this route, I think it may cost them some listenership...and support.

 

[skippertthomas]

Now would be a good time to buy one of the Paducah-Cape-Carbondale stations (probably 89.3, the smaller signal)... Put two local three hour drives into the programming and join the way net as an affiliate.. That signal they got from the Christian businessmen is not as big as 88.3, but it does carry well into the Illinois side of the Ohio and across the Mississippi River into Cape and Sikeston (Cape has a nice LPFM central-located to the population with KHIS.. AC in nature and well run by David Obbergainer (one of the BEST engineers in America)...Maybe I need to look into it??? I am up river and would hate to see all 'bird' radio take it...

 

[xmusicmatt]

Now would be a good time to buy one of the Paducah-Cape-Carbondale stations (probably 89.3, the smaller signal)..

Looks like their 89.3 signal goes AFR Talk towards the first of the year, their 'local' website http://wgcf.afr.net/ talks about the changes (the dropping of the rock show from its line up etc..)

 

[rbrucecarter5]

The last time I listened to AFR's contemporary network - it was closer to praise and worship / very light AC CCM. So they weren't moving very far into CCM if at all. It is just one more indication to me that churches and ministries, for the most part, are out of touch with their listeners and not moving very fast into the 1970's -let alone the 21st century - in their programming. I wonder if it could have anything to do with the age of the people doing the programming?!

 

[skippertthomas]

Really, Don always felt Way and K-Love were doing the job in those formats.. They have just gone back to their staple format they've always felt called to do..

 

[anotherguyTN]

There are two factors I've wondered about if could possibly be reasons for the change on such a massive scale. One is if there are financial problems, either from a lack of support, or pressure from big supporters to go this direction. However I've never had the impression that AFR was anti-CCM, but that they really didn't have the knowledge or ability to do a CCM format the right way. The other factor is the further takeover of Congress and the Senate by the Democrats and the election of Obama as President, and thinking they need to be more vocal on their positions. In any case this seems like a sudden decision that even the local stations didn't know about, at least from the message on WGCF's website, and from what I've found out talking to someone from AFR in Jackson.

 

[anotherguyTN]

In looking at AFR's website I found a note in Buster Wilson's (One of their announcers) blog at  http://buster.afr.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=678&Itemid=1 that out of about 200 stations 126 are changing to the talk network, so that definitely sounds like the talk network is becoming the main network now. There is also a list of the stations going to the talk network

 

[rbrucecarter5]

The other factor is the further takeover of Congress and the Senate by the Democrats and the election of Obama as President, and thinking they need to be more vocal on their positions.

At this point, I would think that an astute Christian ministry would change the issues on which they throw their effort. An Obama administration might be supportive of charitable initiatives such as feeding the poor, benevolance and faith based inititiatives. They might possibly be supportive of anti-pornography efforts - although I can find no statements from him on the positions.

There is no doubt whatsoever that the focus has to change - because an Obama administration is not supportive of some Christian issues:

- The pro-life movement has been dealt a devastating blow from which it will probably never recover.
- The radical homosexual agenda has their victory. It is even likely that the Christian position on homosexuality will be muzzled by hate crimes laws.
- The creation science movement has also been devastated and will likely never recover.

So those three issues are virtually ended for Christian talk radio.

 

[gr8oldies]

The emphasis at least of the vocal, political evenagelical groups has always centered on sexual issues. When the Democrats say, "but Jesus also talked about feeding the poor" it falls on deaf ears, or is thought to be "liberal". I think dispensationalism (the view that only the book of Acts forward contains instructions for today) has a lot to do with that.

 

[ChiefEngineer]

AFR has the same problem everyone has :

Bloodsuckers at BMI, ASCAP, SESAC. Making sure that administrative costs eat any amount of money that writers might get while bringing the bottom line down and forcing music off of many ministry oriented stations.

Per station rates were raised from 250 per station per service to 700. Look at the number of stations AFR has and the amount of cash that would be.

The "re-interpretation" of the rules that allow some educational stations to still pay 250 and others to gradually escalate to over 1000 per service per station in a few years has drilled each of us with a pointy shaped piece of metal with a phillips or standard slot on the end.

This "re-interpretation" was so silently implemented that no one was aware until they started getting bills from the vampires.

The rule is being interpreted by the services to mean that there are two calssifications of educational stations. Clearly a stance the FCC never envisioned. Educational and Educational with some form of certification by a non religious Department Of education. Clearly we were all blindsided. Clearly this was a move to force the many non accredited but educational or teaching stations to pay more money. We never even had a chance to comment on this.

Regional Group with 5 stations used to pay 750 per year per station for a total of 3750. New rate 10,500. And this is a stairstep increase. And when it hits 3000 per station in a year or two for 15000? Ministry oriented stations can make a clear case to drop music.

AFR has how many stations? 100 (low number)? old rate was 75,000. In a couple of years this will be 300,000. Don Wildemon will undoubtedtly want to keep money working most effectively for his ministry.

While this topic has never come up expect this to be a bigger problem except for those with very aggressive money raising capabilities. Re : "Your favorite (example - made up station) K Faith station with 40 million dollars in cash reserves might go off the air if you don't empty your wallet now and send it to us." The days of evangelists skimming the flock will not stop. It is disingenuous for a station with 40 million in cash reserves to tell listeners thye may loose their favorite station tomorrow. they may be the only ones left that can afford to play Christian music.

If you want Christian music, get off your behinds or expect all to go away and some national network to be "it".

 

[justalurker]

Bloodsuckers at BMI, ASCAP, SESAC.

The rule is being interpreted by the services to mean that there are two calssifications of educational stations. Clearly a stance the FCC never envisioned.

The FCC isn't controlling BMI, ASCAP, SESAC ... they are entirely separate. They set their own rules and definitions.

If the bloodsuckers consider a station that plays copyrighted music in heavy rotation that needs to be tracked back to someone for payment separate from other stations that play public domain music and/or little music at all different because their cost for servicing the two stations varies it is the bloodsuckers right to do so. They are providing the service.

I'd like to see an alternative, but the administrative cost is there when you have a large list of songs to track and distribute payment for.

If you want to have a music format you have to pay for the music. The bloodsuckers are just another Ceasar. Render unto Ceasar that which is his.

 

[ChiefEngineer]

The comment was based on the assumption you would reply based on some level of knowledge of the licensing process. Please let me explain.

The FCC decides what a noncommercial station is. Mandated by Congress. Not BMI or ASCAP.

The FCC (as mandated by Congress) decided that noncommercial educational is an all encompassing package. This includes schools, religious organizations, churches, etc. Even the pacifica whackos. There has never been two classifications of noncommercial stations. Since licenses are issued by the FCC they hold ultimate jurisdiction for the class of station or type.

Educational programming as defined by the FCC has a single class and there has never been a change to this class. Congress has not established two classes.

The new "clarification" and rate increase is fraud at best. If there is only one legal class of station how can they break a Federally regulated class of station (mandated by Congress) into two groups?

Let's say you are white and I'm black and I have the same rights and responsibilities yet i pay a higher rate than you. Not only is making one of the same class pay a higher rate because they can unethical, it violates our laws.

The words of Christ and his acceptance of Ceaser's taxes ar meant as a swipe here? No one is saying we shouldn't pay the rates. We all know the sognwriters have really messed up because the companies essentially build large expenses into the process so the songwriters don't see the money.

if you read further in the BIBLE Christ also called for tax collectors to be ethical, even, and fair, only taking what they should. An unethical and underhanded tax to some but not others of the same class is what we have. This wasn't what Christ was talking about. read a little more to get up to speed.

BMI ASCAP and SESAC have decided that THEY will make a determination not made by the FCC not approved by the FCC (or Congress) and not in line with FCC guidelines.

If there is a group willing to take them on I offer you my best.

To those like the former poster who don't understand the establishment of educational noncommercial radio and it's goals to today's implementation please do some research.

 

[justalurker]

The new "clarification" and rate increase is fraud at best. If there is only one legal class of station how can they break a Federally regulated class of station (mandated by Congress) into two groups?

Because ASCAP, BMI and SESAC are NOT required to follow that class of station in their rate structure.

They can divide their rates up by market size, by station popularity, by state, by whatever they damn well please. They do not have to follow the federal government definitions.

Let's say you are white and I'm black and I have the same rights and responsibilities yet i pay a higher rate than you. Not only is making one of the same class pay a higher rate because they can unethical, it violates our laws.

Thanks for throwing in racism ... do you believe that the BMI/ASCAP/SESAC divisions are racist? Or are they drawing their lines based on what I said? The amount of work it takes to handle the royalties for different types of non-comm stations?

if you read further in the BIBLE Christ also called for tax collectors to be ethical, even, and fair, only taking what they should. An unethical and underhanded tax to some but not others of the same class is what we have. This wasn't what Christ was talking about. read a little more to get up to speed.

And yet the taxes are still due. Perhaps you missed that in your reading of the Bible? Perhaps you also missed the fact that BMI/ASCAP/SESAC are not Christian organizations controlled by Biblical rules. We're in the world, buddy. Did the station owners not sign a contract with BMI/ASCAP/SESAC? Or are you saying it is perfectly fine for a Christian organization to ignore a contract because they don't like the terms? What a witness that would be.

BMI ASCAP and SESAC have decided that THEY will make a determination not made by the FCC not approved by the FCC (or Congress) and not in line with FCC guidelines.

And it is THEIR DETERMINATION TO MAKE. There is NO REQUIREMENT that they follow FCC guidelines.

To those like the former poster who don't understand the establishment of educational noncommercial radio and it's goals to today's implementation please do some research.

For those that don't understand the private business relationship of BMI/ASCAP/SESAC with stations please do some research. Yes, Chief, I'm talking about YOU. NCE radio has lofty goals ... but that does not give them carte blanche to do whatever they please.

 

[Field_strength]

Yawn. Christian talk stations are a dime a dozen and they all air the same programs. You can turn the dial in any radio market and hear Focus on the Family, Insight for Living, Turning Point etc on several stations. What a waste of RF energy. They did it because talk radio is automated & cheap, and the programs pay them for airtime. This only continues the stereotype that Christian radio is bland and uncreative.

 

[R.D.P.]

Thanks for sharing this info. I've discovered this change over the past few days. WAQU 91.1 FM was Classics but now is switching over to talk. Yea, just what we needed. Moody already does a lot of yapping. Hope Talk works out for Mr. Wildmon.

R.D.P. <><

P.S. I hope that everyone had a merry Christmas and a happy new year. I'm now trying to get my new MAC Computer up and running. Had two other new Computers but they didn't work out. Hope this one will work out for me. If you've been missing me, that's why I've been away for sooo long.

 

[ChiefEngineer]

For someone that speaks so much yet knows so little let me correct a few misrepresentations.


Because ASCAP, BMI and SESAC are NOT required to follow that class of station in their rate structure.

They can divide their rates up by market size, by station popularity, by state, by whatever they damn well please. They do not have to follow the federal government definitions.

BMI and ASCAp have fixed rates for noncoms. You may be confusing them with commercial stations which pay rates based on income.

Let's say you are white and I'm black and I have the same rights and responsibilities yet i pay a higher rate than you. Not only is making one of the same class pay a higher rate because they can unethical, it violates our laws.

Thanks for throwing in racism ... do you believe that the BMI/ASCAP/SESAC divisions are racist? Or are they drawing their lines based on what I said? The amount of work it takes to handle the royalties for different types of non-comm stations?

This relates to unequality. Grow up.

if you read further in the BIBLE Christ also called for tax collectors to be ethical, even, and fair, only taking what they should. An unethical and underhanded tax to some but not others of the same class is what we have. This wasn't what Christ was talking about. read a little more to get up to speed.

And yet the taxes are still due. Perhaps you missed that in your reading of the Bible? Perhaps you also missed the fact that BMI/ASCAP/SESAC are not Christian organizations controlled by Biblical rules. We're in the world, buddy. Did the station owners not sign a contract with BMI/ASCAP/SESAC? Or are you saying it is perfectly fine for a Christian organization to ignore a contract because they don't like the terms? What a witness that would be.

No one signed a contract for the new terms and all of the companies surprised each radio station with new rates. Buy a car and sign a loan agreement and the bank decides to doble the rate or triple it without letting you know? This is what happened.

BMI ASCAP and SESAC have decided that THEY will make a determination not made by the FCC not approved by the FCC (or Congress) and not in line with FCC guidelines.

And it is THEIR DETERMINATION TO MAKE. There is NO REQUIREMENT that they follow FCC guidelines.

When they decide one NCE station has a different classifdication from another , yes, I think it does. Again, the racism relativism.


For those that don't understand the private business relationship of BMI/ASCAP/SESAC with stations please do some research. Yes, Chief, I'm talking about YOU. NCE radio has lofty goals ... but that does not give them carte blanche to do whatever they please.

You don't have a clue. Trying to be kind here but you obviously haven't had ANY dealings with BMI or ASCAP in noncom. It is clear from your remarks here.

Stations sign a licensing agreement at a specific rate. When stations are told their rate changed and they weren't notified of the change how is this a business relationship? How is this ethical? It isn't.

From your language and attitude I'm glad to see you are at least reading this board.

And on an anecdoteal note.

A man from a local parish once told a story of his mother coming to school to complain about the school. When there was no settlement of the issue the administrator grew so upset with the woman his final comment to the man's mother was: "if you weren't a woman I'd hit you."

 

[justalurker]

For someone that speaks so much yet knows so little let me correct a few misrepresentations.

Starting with an insult? Thanks for showing me more of your "Christian Love". :

They can divide their rates up by market size, by station popularity, by state, by whatever they damn well please. They do not have to follow the federal government definitions.

BMI and ASCAp have fixed rates for noncoms. You may be confusing them with commercial stations which pay rates based on income.

So you agree that BMI/ASCAP/SESAC are companies that can set their own rates within an FCC category. The only point that you seem to be stuck on is that you somehow don't think that they can also set their own rates within the non-comm category. THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO. You just don't like it when they use that right.

This relates to unequality. Grow up.

More insults and more misunderstanding. : BMI/ASCAP/SESAC are under no obligation to be equal to different classes of station.

When they decide one NCE station has a different classifdication from another , yes, I think it does. Again, the racism relativism.

There is a definable difference between the stations that is more than "these guys have God music and these guys have non-God music". Don't like it? Take them to court. See how far your racism claims hold up beyond a rant on an internet forum.

From your language and attitude I'm glad to see you are at least reading this board.

From yours I'm sure their are a few Christians out there that wish you were reading and doing less writing.

What a witness. :

BTW: Would you like to hit me? Don't bother answering.