AM 1520 Choice down to News or 80s-90s Country-Renae O'Keefe back on KRKO

[dunno]

Andy,

I admire your ability to make it work. I've done direct sales, and as the Ringo song goes "It don't come Easy".
You deserve a FM, but if you had one, would you keep it local?
Have you thought about Tacoma, that market seems open to what you're doing in Everett.

 

[TVradioguru]

I'm sorry about the confusion. WDAF continued to top the ratings, with its Full Service approach to Country, for years. I recently ran across a post, mentioning that they had moved to FM and thought it referred to a simulcast. I was taken by their ability to consistently do so, on the AM band. As far as I know, that's the only AM music station, in recent memory, that can make that claim, which was my only point.

And that being the point. The statement "for years" seems to be thrown around in this thread like we're talking about now. The fact is that the last sucessful AM music stations beat a hasty retreat 20+ years ago. As much as many would like to take a trip in the way-back machine believing the past will join the present already in progress, the facts are these are different times with different challenges for AM radio.

I too would argue that Bill's situation differs to an Everett located station due to the penetration from Seattle-based stations. Where Tacoma and Everett used to be totally unique markets with dedicated stations, marketing and sales opportunities, Tacoma stations have moved to Seattle, making the market now one. Owning a station on the edge of a larger market without a full-market signal, let alone being AM signals, is tough and only going to get tougher to compete for a dollar.

 

[scott salvatori]

And please, explain to all of us laypersons on the definition "unique advertising alliances". And how does barter make the station money? Have you looked at the print media business conditions lately? How would creating an alliance with another dying form of media help?

the everett heralds 50,000 + readers, can read daily about KRKO sports programming, and/or 1520 AM format features. radio station items such as programs, contests, concerts, music, station slogans etc, can be featured daily/weekly, via newspaper/websight ad.
in exchange, 1380 and/or 1520 AM, can educate its vast 45,000+ listener base, with on-air and/or websight ads, telling listeners, to pick up a herald today, and/or subscribe. todays local front page story, could even be teased during drive time.
how often, and how long does this commercial run, and how big is the newspaper print ad in exchange? well, that can be determined, through meetings. this barter deal will help both parties potentially improve business conditions, by selling more print product for newspaper, and bringing more listeners for radio. more listeners, and more readers, makes for better ad rates. the average person is so cluttered with information overload from other computer, media, and TV sources, that AM radio, and print media, have fallen behind in the numbers. its time for these two adversaries to explore synergistic relationships, that will benefit both parties.
will this work? after more focus, it may get bogged down in hair splitting details. but, if your not prepared to be wrong, you'll never come up with anything original.

 

[Andrew Skotdal]

Guru, one question I always save for the biggest critics is, "I hear the argument, but now, throw all that away and put yourself into the situation...what steps WOULD you take if you had NO other option - you don't have to guarantee the steps would lead to success, but you do have to identify three options you would pursue if you DIDN'T have an alternative." I can sit here and think of a million ideas for starting over and only owning KWYZ 1230, a Class C station. So, let's roll play that. You own KWYZ 1230 now, and the signal only covers Everett, and you CAN'T sell it. What would you do?

 

[discjockeyjohn64]

I definitely still believe in AM radio and yes I am 46 years old, but I started at a 1KW stick in Provo Utah in 1988 and we sold the station as a local station, since everyone else was targeting the Salt Lake City market. We generated all kinds of revenue from running local sports teams, and local talk shows. Sold an hour each day where our interviewer would just talk about a local business, "Talk of the Town." This was a 60 minute infomercial long before they became popular on TV and radio. What was unique, listeners called in and talked to the business owner and got so much more information on what that business did and how it could benefit the listener. This program alone generated 80K a year in income for our station. That was 25% of our budget with one show. Everett and Snohomish County are very underserved radio wise. The Seattle stations rarely report anything in our neck of the woods. A one or two person news team that focused locally, or as some have suggested, maybe a deal with the Herald to share resources would be a great boon to us here in the North Sound.
I lean toward a news/talk format for my choice. I also think "Timeless Cool" would be interesting. I've read up on this format and it is unique and might make a nice addition to the market. Hey, Andy, we've met before when you covered my friend's Eagle Scout project last year. Wishing you nothing but success with AM 1520. Hope to do a time buy for what we discussed some time ago as well.

 

[TVradioguru]

Guru, one question I always save for the biggest critics is, "I hear the argument, but now, throw all that away and put yourself into the situation...what steps WOULD you take if you had NO other option - you don't have to guarantee the steps would lead to success, but you do have to identify three options you would pursue if you DIDN'T have an alternative." I can sit here and think of a million ideas for starting over and only owning KWYZ 1230, a Class C station. So, let's roll play that. You own KWYZ 1230 now, and the signal only covers Everett, and you CAN'T sell it. What would you do?

Having been primarily involved in thorough research and M&A due diligence on client stations, I always prefer to have a good idea of what's being purchased and the market conditions before making or suggesting a move. Knowing what I do now, I wouldn't touch an AM these days with someone else's ten foot pole.

But alright Mr. Skotdal, I'll join in and role play for a moment.. Some of the non-industry romantics will no doubt flame me for this armchair, hypothetical, analysis, but IF I had an existing AM signal in a suburb of a larger market, then I would pursue either an LMA with a foreign language programmer or possibly just block sell all the programming hours to a group of foreign language or religious operators. Provided of course the group paying for the block time stay in business long enough to fulfill the contract period.

Continuing the dream sequence..It seems to me your station is close-ish to the Canadian border where there are a lot of asian-based program providers. Potentially you could extend the reach of their programming south across the border.

To me the perfect end-game would be to see if a deal could be struck with a third party, the program provider or religious organization to just buy the station.

 

[scott salvatori]

yep, there goes the views from a guy looking out, from inside the box, where everything is based on current learned industry think. wow, how many times have these analysis paralysis guys been wrong by a mile in over judging an industry trend? AM is down, but not dying, and not dead.

your AM 1520, has a bright future, by thinking outside the box in programming, and in relationships with the local business community of everett-snohomish-lk stevens- monroe. be "AM loud and proud", instead of listening to the AM doom and gloom choir. a challenge? hell yes! but, please dont be conned into selling out to foreigners, or foreigner programming. take advantage of your broadcasting foot print, and "own" that US HWY2 corridor from everett to sultan w/ local business advertisements, and traffic reports during drive time. whatever programming you choose, remember it takes time, as the average potential age 45+ listeners are information overloaded with cell phones, computers, and what not. the effort will be worth it in the long run.

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

Request for dumbed-down answer (because I know we have people who can REALLY explain this in credible detail) ... is there much of a difference in coverage pattern between the two signals (1380, 1520)? Reason I ask is it MIGHT open door for SOME cross-over (simulcast) programming -- a morning news block, for example, so there are some shared costs and enhanced market penetration. Then split other dayparts based on specific image of the stations....??

If the two signals pretty much match each other this nugget of a thought obviously doesn't make any sense...

 

[dunno]

Scott,

Thanks for all the laughs!! Don't take me wrong, cause I really do get a kick out of you posts.
Music on AM. It's like TV stations going back to black and white. Yeah, some old folks would watch.

Andy, good luck! You must have deep pockets.

 

[Wonderfulwino]

AM is searching for its identity..So far its a medium that, regardless of power and position its seem stuck in the talk yak yak circuit. To fire up 1520 in such close proximity to a major market is a gutsy move. To say the least, you've got your work cut out for you. Whatever format you settle on Andy, it had better be unique and you'd better be good. If its otherwise a look-a-like to whats already out there and being tried, you may find yourself reconfiguring.
But hey!! Music on AM?? What the hell..Try a throwback format. Boss-Jock top-40 radio with screaming jocks, tight cues, talk-ups and locally produced commercials that have actual hype built in. Ok..I'm kidding. Sort of. I dont think their's enough local air talent around anyway to sustain that kind of a sound now days..

 

[TVradioguru]

Request for dumbed-down answer (because I know we have people who can REALLY explain this in credible detail) ... is there much of a difference in coverage pattern between the two signals (1380, 1520)? Reason I ask is it MIGHT open door for SOME cross-over (simulcast) programming -- a morning news block, for example, so there are some shared costs and enhanced market penetration. Then split other dayparts based on specific image of the stations....??

If the two signals pretty much match each other this nugget of a thought obviously doesn't make any sense...

I'm not an FCC lawyer nor consulting engineer, but I believe there are limitations regarding AM to AM simulcast where X% of the two signals overlap.

I had a client who was interested in leveraging the better night signal on one station and the better day signal on another. They felt the best way to not reduce confusion with listeners were to carry the marquis programming on both signals. The issue was the FCC prohibits a certain percentage of simulcasting on signals that overlap, something like 29% or more I believe. There may be someone else here that could elaborate on the rule.

 

[scott salvatori]

Music on AM. It's like TV stations going back to black and white. Yeah, some old folks would watch.

gotta love all these AM doom and gloomers. heres the deal boys. its like running on the NASCAR NATIONWIDE circuit. there are a number of low/mid budget teams running middle of the pack, with good sponsors, and associate sponsors, who compete every week. sure, their sponsorship $$ is a fraction of the big boys. yet, there they are every week, competing and paying the bills. okay, we know snohomish county AM music aint gonna take on the juvenile wolf howler countrypolitan seattle behemoth, and its counterpart. but, they will fill a niche, by providing class programming meant for mature adults, that they are not.

lets get this straight,you AM doom and gloomers, who think AM country cant make it, there are so many AM country outlets in the USA, it would take me several pages to name them all. yes, many split local talent, with satellite talent. many go by the slogan, "country legends", "classic country", or "real country". some like KBJM 1400 AM in south dakota, even daypart. they program current country in the day time and classic country at night. there are probably a few dozen AM country's here in WA. take for instance KBAM 1270 AM, in longview. they program "real country" 35% current, and 50% from the 90's, and the rest pre 80's.

some of you boys, are so AM, doom and gloom, that the casual seattle metroplex readers of radio-info.com, are led to believe, AM 1520, is going into the buggywhip business. sure, AM radio has a ton more of competition, than in its hey day. but, bring on the good programming, give it time to develop a loyal following, and you will survive racing in the middle of the pack!

 

[TVradioguru]

some of you boys, are so AM, doom and gloom, that the casual seattle metroplex readers of radio-info.com, are led to believe, AM 1520, is going into the buggywhip business. sure, AM radio has a ton more of competition, than in its hey day. but, bring on the good programming, give it time to develop a loyal following, and you will survive racing in the middle of the pack!

And one could argue that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. "Good programming". To who, you? When did you start speaking for the tastes of thousands or millions of radio listeners? Don't flatter yourself.

In each and every instance when given the opportunity to disclose facts and sources, you come up with the same old comments: AM can work it just takes time, yet you admittedly have no experience or recent examples to back up your claims. So Scott, once again I ask..When are you going to put your money where your mouth is and go out an pick up a little AM somewhere and show us how wildly successful your cliche' business strategy can be?

 

[AQH]

gotta love all these AM doom and gloomers. heres the deal boys. its like running on the NASCAR NATIONWIDE circuit. there are a number of low/mid budget teams running middle of the pack, with good sponsors, and associate sponsors, who compete every week. sure, their sponsorship $$ is a fraction of the big boys. yet, there they are every week, competing and paying the bills. okay, we know snohomish county AM music aint gonna take on the juvenile wolf howler countrypolitan seattle behemoth, and its counterpart. but, they will fill a niche, by providing class programming meant for mature adults, that they are not.

lets get this straight,you AM doom and gloomers, who think AM country cant make it, there are so many AM country outlets in the USA, it would take me several pages to name them all. yes, many split local talent, with satellite talent. many go by the slogan, "country legends", "classic country", or "real country". some like KBJM 1400 AM in south dakota, even daypart. they program current country in the day time and classic country at night. there are probably a few dozen AM country's here in WA. take for instance KBAM 1270 AM, in longview. they program "real country" 35% current, and 50% from the 90's, and the rest pre 80's.

some of you boys, are so AM, doom and gloom, that the casual seattle metroplex readers of radio-info.com, are led to believe, AM 1520, is going into the buggywhip business. sure, AM radio has a ton more of competition, than in its hey day. but, bring on the good programming, give it time to develop a loyal following, and you will survive racing in the middle of the pack!

If you need to use an AM station in South Dakota to make your case, that says something about your argument.

The trucker allegory is getting old too.

 

[scott salvatori]

And one could argue that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. "Good programming". To who, you? When did you start speaking for the tastes of thousands or millions of radio listeners? Don't flatter yourself.

In each and every instance when given the opportunity to disclose facts and sources, you come up with the same old comments: AM can work it just takes time, yet you admittedly have no experience or recent examples to back up your claims. So Scott, once again I ask..When are you going to put your money where your mouth is and go out an pick up a little AM somewhere and show us how wildly successful your cliche' business strategy can be?

i repeat: there are hundreds of AM country stations in the USA, including dozens in WA. i challenge anyone to look them up. i spent only 15 minutes yesterday, and was overwhelmed with all the AM country radio outlets out there. you seriously want me to list all them examples? are you implying most are business failures ready to go under, and sell out to foreigners? how successful are they? you tell me. what is your idea of success? what you have to consider, is that not all staion owners are into mergers, aquisitions, and flips for instant profit, or whatever business your in that you speak of. many of these small stations are family run, and just want to be a non money losing service to the community, where they live. which may be hard for a city feller like you to fathom.

so, you want me to go pick up a little AM, huh? okay, heres my business plan: i'll hire you, radio guruTV as my agent. i'll pick the market and AM station i want. then i'll have you as my agent, go post on radio-info.com, and proclaim that the AM station i want to buy, has no future, and will soon be graveyard dead and out of business, and forced to sell to the foreigners. once the ownership, and that radio market see your posts, and your radio TVguru CB handle, i'm sure they will be interesting in selling right quick at a good n'low price out of fear, cause your " AM doomer" analysis carries so much weight.

i do enjoy your debate style though, and your sophisticate college educated wording, and phrasing. sorry to have to "flame" you???huh?

 

[Abner Jenkins]

Interesting discussion but the static is getting a bit much. Methinks Scott, AQH and the "Guru" aren't as far apart as their posts would indicate.

Maybe a little less "truckin' bozo" stream of consciousness and a little less "spewing the corporate blather" is in order.

 

[TVradioguru]

so, you want me to go pick up a little AM, huh? okay, heres my business plan: i'll hire you, radio guruTV as my agent.

First of all, you couldn't afford me Scott. Second, I don't do evaluations on AM properties anymore. Mainly because the findings are all too predictable. My conscience won't allow me to take an organizations money when I know the news and outcome doesn't hold much promise.

Scott, since you're such a trust-fate businessperson, I really do think you should mortgage your home, buy an AM station somewhere, program it with all your favorite music, then go out there and sell advertising on your work. Just as I am confident the sun will rise in morning, you won't be in business for long. That being said, I welcome the opportunity to be proven wrong.

i do enjoy your debate style though, and your sophisticate college educated wording, and phrasing. sorry to have to "flame" you???huh?

Thanks for the backhanded complement Scott, but my sentence, grammar and punctuation is not solely formed around my college background. There are others here who also care enough to be articulate, use proper punctuation and even capital letters in the correct form.

My father taught me at an early age that no matter what the forum or situation, words matter. In business or in life, the words you say and write are indicative of how much you actually care about or have knowledge of what you speak. As a matter of fact, to be honest my twelve year old writes more clearly and precisely than you do.

 

[DanStrassberg]

Thanks for the backhanded complement Scott, but my sentence, grammar and punctuation is not solely formed around my college background. There are others here who also care enough to be articulate, use proper punctuation and even capital letters in the correct form.

Since your intellect and powers of reasoning are so obviously superior to those of the rest of us who hang out here, why do you bother with us and why are you so tenacious? Also, why is it of such vital importance to you to be right and to have the last word? Sounds to me as if, deep down, you aren't anywhere near as confident of your opinions or your abilities as you would like us to believe you are :-\.

 

[bossbill]

Sometimes it's a bit of fun to sit back and observe the dialogue. If a few of the posters were speculating on oil instead of a broadcast property, we'd be seeing $500 a barrel.

 

[TVradioguru]

Since your intellect and powers of reasoning are so obviously superior to those of the rest of us who hang out here, why do you bother with us and why are you so tenacious?

Really! Well Dan, please show me where at any point where I claimed superiority to the rest of you. The reason for my tenacity is pretty obvious really..

If you worked for many years, successfully in a particular industry and found certain individuals on a discussion board constantly posting information that was completely contrary and erroneous to what you know as fact, you would stay on the sidelines and not say anything to the contrary? You've posted plenty of your own opinions on this and other forums. In this instance, clearly you've taken the time to write a tongue-in-cheek jab at me, so I ask you..who's dealing with feelings of inferiority now?

Look, I recognize that there are hobbyists plus former radio employees on this and other boards who still wax on nostalgically about the first form of electronic media; AM radio. If you choose to be in denial regarding the increasing decline of the medium, then that's fine. I'm sure there are plenty of adults who believe in other things which in their mind they know are contrary, yet they still hold out hope the old days will return.