Another HD radio killer - Avis offers wi-fi in rental cars.

[vsa]

From the Radio-Info home page, Tom Taylor writes; "Avis is now offering WiFi in select rental cars. You realize what that means? Radio's truly getting a competitor in the car dashboard - the whole Internet...it may be bad news for XM and Sirius, long-term..."

Implications for HD radio? I say this is another one of many reasons why HD radio is dead.

HD boosters have been poo-pooing the news over the last few months that this development was on the horizon. Well, it's now here folks. There will be more. Lots more.

 

[R.F. Burns]

From the Radio-Info home page, Tom Taylor writes; "Avis is now offering WiFi in select rental cars. You realize what that means? Radio's truly getting a competitor in the car dashboard - the whole Internet...it may be bad news for XM and Sirius, long-term..."

Implications for HD radio? I say this is another one of many reasons why HD radio is dead.

HD boosters have been poo-pooing the news over the last few months that this development was on the horizon. Well, it's now here folks. There will be more. Lots more.

OK, Please tell me what happens to the wi-fi connection once the renter leaves the parking lot? Someday Wi-Fi or its equivelant will be the method of distribution for broadcasters but what good is a receiver if there's no signal to receive?

 

[vsa]

From the Radio-Info home page, Tom Taylor writes; "Avis is now offering WiFi in select rental cars. You realize what that means? Radio's truly getting a competitor in the car dashboard - the whole Internet...it may be bad news for XM and Sirius, long-term..."

Implications for HD radio? I say this is another one of many reasons why HD radio is dead.

HD boosters have been poo-pooing the news over the last few months that this development was on the horizon. Well, it's now here folks. There will be more. Lots more.

OK, Please tell me what happens to the wi-fi connection once the renter leaves the parking lot? Someday Wi-Fi or its equivelant will be the method of distribution for broadcasters but what good is a receiver if there's no signal to receive?

I believe the system uses EV-DO or an enhanced EV-DO right now (400 to 700 kbps or more) and will transition to the even faster and more robust Wimax as that technology is built out. The system communicates with any wi-fi device in or near the car - wherever the car travels - nationwide. So, let's say you installed an in-dash wi-fi radio. It would communicate seamlessly via the EV-DO, and later a Wimax connection, to the whole Internet. You could still also use a laptop or VOIP phone calls over any wi-fi enabled hand-held phone/pda.

Anything else you don't grasp or understand here?

 

[R.F. Burns]

From the Radio-Info home page, Tom Taylor writes; "Avis is now offering WiFi in select rental cars. You realize what that means? Radio's truly getting a competitor in the car dashboard - the whole Internet...it may be bad news for XM and Sirius, long-term..."

Implications for HD radio? I say this is another one of many reasons why HD radio is dead.

HD boosters have been poo-pooing the news over the last few months that this development was on the horizon. Well, it's now here folks. There will be more. Lots more.

OK, Please tell me what happens to the wi-fi connection once the renter leaves the parking lot? Someday Wi-Fi or its equivelant will be the method of distribution for broadcasters but what good is a receiver if there's no signal to receive?

I believe the system uses EV-DO or an enhanced EV-DO right now (400 to 700 kbps or more) and will transition to the even faster and more robust Wimax as that technology is built out. The system communicates with any wi-fi device in or near the car - wherever the car travels - nationwide. So, let's say you installed an in-dash wi-fi radio. It would communicate seamlessly via the EV-DO, and later a Wimax connection, to the whole Internet. You could still also use a laptop or VOIP phone calls over any wi-fi enabled hand-held phone/pda.

Anything else you don't grasp or understand here?

Yes, why the sarchastic attitude. Your response was insulting and anti social and thet is why these topics end up in anger and name calling. By the way, any currently free wi-fi access. In other words, I can drive anywhere in the country and get seemless radio coverage. How about nationswide free internet coverage? Not too much to ask. I know it's coming but unutil it does lets call HD the next generation of radio transmission. See, nothing insulting or personal about my response. maybe you can do the same and we can have a real converastion.

 

[vsa]

R.F. Burns wrote: "Yes, why the sarchastic attitude. Your response was insulting and anti social and thet is why these topics end up in anger and name calling. By the way, any currently free wi-fi access. In other words, I can drive anywhere in  the country and get seemless radio coverage. How about nationswide free internet coverage? Not too much to ask. I know it's coming but unutil it does lets call HD the next generation of radio transmission. See, nothing insulting or personal about my response. maybe you can do the same and we can have a real converastion."

No insult was intended, Mr. Attitudeless. More of a realization that you tend to lack curiosity and assume the worst if you don't agree with it. I thought it was funny how you would think that a wifi-service being offered in an automobile could be anything other than a traveling hot spot. Otherwise, if my laptop has wi-fi, what purpose might a wi-fi adaptor the size of an automobile serve? The information is all over this place called the Internet. Here's a link to a television report on the service.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=120813

Did you read today's NAB Smartbrief? It's quote of the day was from Winston Churchill. He said, "The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."

Words of wisdom.

 

[clouseau]

Did you read today's NAB Smartbrief? It's quote of the day was from Winston Churchill. He said, "The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."

Words of wisdom.

Ok, now I do NOT have technical data here. But I DO have Real world experience. I would suspect one of the better ways to accomplish the "Wifi in the car" thing would be to use EVDO. In fact I just had the station buy a Kyocera KR-1 EVDO router with Wifi. Great idea. We bought it because actual POTS lines (Not VOIP pots emulation) are becoming hard to find in some of the AF2 areana we do live work from. In fact I had to raise a stink to get true POTS in our HOME arena. (I'm a nice guy. I had it put into the road team connection as well.)

Now maybe I have a cruddy unit (We're working on it.) We have loads of signal, but the router reboots all the time and it just basically sucks. It seems EVDO is good for web browsing and even streaming, but NOT VERY GOOD for UDP data. Our Tieline G-3 uses this.

This may be just an isolated instance, but I was stoked to find this device. Delierious actually.

When I used it, I was BITTERLY disappointed.

It drops in and out with lots of signal on my kitchen table. I can only imagine the problems in a moving vehicle.

I would suggest even if it does work that "Wifi in the car" is a little like a CD player. It will get used, but it won't REPLACE the radio. We've had dozens of ceives released since the car radio. It's still standing.

BTW, anyone have an idea what's up with my KR-1?... Seriously.

Clouseau

 

[Chuck]

BTW, anyone have an idea what's up with my KR-1?... Seriously.

Clouseau

I just bought an EVDO modem that connects by USB. It says "Franklin Wireless CDU-550" but seems to be a Qualcom product. I'm using Alltel as my service provider. Because it uses a USB connection, I'm using a short USB extension to connect it to my laptop. This arrangement lets me put the modem on the dash of my car, so there is just glass between it and the outdoors. So far, I'm quite impressed with the results. I've had good connections in a lot of rural areas where I would have expected absolutely nothing. On the other hand, I was stopped in a rest area in Illinois along an Interstate, and it wouldn't work at all. Go figure.

I can easily envision using this for broadcast remotes, since it would save a lot of money on phone lines. I haven't figured out how to set my laptop us as a streamer, but I can't imagine that it will be very difficult using Shoutcast or something similar. (Any suggestions?)

Using a Samson USB microphone, I've managed to record an audio file, send it via the Internet back to our automation computer, and insert it in the play list for play back as the next event, all using the EVDO modem. I think that is very cool.

It may not be fully developed yet, but this technology is here, and it will get better. People will want it and be willing to pay for it.. It's sort of like the first time you used a cell phone. At first it is a novelty, but soon you can't envision life without it.

 

[PhilJSmith67]

It may not be fully developed yet, but this technology is here, and it will get better.

Sounds kind of like the state of HD Radio

 

[radiopilot]

It may not be fully developed yet, but this technology is here, and it will get better.

Sounds kind of like the state of HD Radio

One difference... No one wants HD radio. If it were so car rental companies would have HD installed in cars.. too bad.

HD Radio = 15 years too late!

Radiopilot

 

[clouseau]

One difference... No one wants HD radio.

Your opinion - stated as a fact.

If it were so car rental companies would have HD installed in cars.. too bad.

Gee and all this time I thought it was a "Only available as an aftermarket installation" problem.

Feel free to pick a complaint and stay with it...

HD Radio = 15 years too late!

Still hoping more repeats = fact, huh?

Clouseau
[/quote]

 

[Mike Walker]

"No-one wants HD radio". I DO! So do most of the people on this board, and others like it.

"15 years too late"? The technology didn't exist in 1992. Neither did the World Wide Web, satellite radio, etc. There were no codecs efficient enough for the required bitrates, no spectrum available, and no cpus powerful enough to do the dsp work necessary in real time. It COULD NOT have happened 15 years ago. The world was analog then. It ain't now!

Yet another silly claim. And desperate. "No-one wants HD radio". Then the manufacturers who believe otherwise, and are rushing new products to market, must be just plain stupid. SOMEONE IS!

 

[radiopilot]

"No-one wants HD radio". I DO! So do most of the people on this board, and others like it.

"15 years too late"? The technology didn't exist in 1992. Neither did the World Wide Web, satellite radio, etc. There were no codecs efficient enough for the required bitrates, no spectrum available, and no cpus powerful enough to do the dsp work necessary in real time. It COULD NOT have happened 15 years ago. The world was analog then. It ain't now!

Yet another silly claim. And desperate. "No-one wants HD radio". Then the manufacturers who believe otherwise, and are rushing new products to market, must be just plain stupid. SOMEONE IS!

Mike

Give me some credit, I'm not an idiot as you think, I know this technology was not around to get HD on the air, what I'm saying is that it would have to have been 15 years ago this had to be introduced to the public for HD to take hold and be accepted, the mere fact that it's introduced now is just the reason no one wants it now that other technologies make it superfluous.

Sure there will be the early adoptor geeks like you that will buy these products... I still have an Altiar, Sinclair Z80, Commodore 64, etc. and several other technologies of other devices, but they are HISTORY just as HD radio will be just as AM Stereo was... too bad if you don't LIKE it but it's the reality... FACE IT.

Go check the Radio Shack post of the reality of the so called stores stockingh the marvelous show de force of products available by manufacturers.


HD Radio = 15 years too late
HD Radio = Defective technology
HD Radio = Non Exsistant to Consumers

Radiopilot

 

[Mike Walker]

'Tis the other technologies that are the tail. Terrestrial radio is the DOG. More than 250 MILLION listeners. Terrestrial radio is in a far stronger position to launch a new over the air digital technology than local television...which has really been eroded by cable. And THAT (the conversion to HDTV) has been going very well. Still, after a decade, most people DO NOT HAVE A DIGITAL TV. And that doesn't make it a failure, either. People replace things like radios and tvs WHEN THEY BREAK, or there's a need for a new one. My tv in the living room is (finally, thank you Jesus!) acting up, and will be replaced by an HDTV this summer (YES!) I wasn't going to toss it out when it still had useful life in it. Not when most of what's available on cable and satellite is still standard definition! (Especially the news channels...I'm a news junkie).

 

[radiopilot]

'Tis the other technologies that are the tail. Terrestrial radio is the DOG. More than 250 MILLION listeners. Terrestrial radio is in a far stronger position to launch a new over the air digital technology than local television...which has really been eroded by cable. And THAT (the conversion to HDTV) has been going very well. Still, after a decade, most people DO NOT HAVE A DIGITAL TV. And that doesn't make it a failure, either. People replace things like radios and tvs WHEN THEY BREAK, or there's a need for a new one. My tv in the living room is (finally, thank you Jesus!) acting up, and will be replaced by an HDTV this summer (YES!) I wasn't going to toss it out when it still had useful life in it. Not when most of what's available on cable and satellite is still standard definition! (Especially the news channels...I'm a news junkie).

You are so absolutely correct... many consumers using existing AM/FM radios will not have a need to throw away their perfectly usable radios to buy HD radio products when there is no need...

I don't plan on buying another TV until the ones I have die out... that could be years or even a decade... then I'll decide if an HDTV is in my future same goes for all of my existing radios... I'll purchase maybe a WIFI internet radios in the future but I definately don't have a need for HD radio since the analog FM and AM comes in just fine for me... any NON Noise type music I want will either be internet music or downloads of the music since I don't purchase CD's anymore...

About that 250 million... you already know my take on that!

HD Radio = 15 years too late...
HD Radio = Now Defective...
HD Radio = Almost NON -EXISTANT to CONSUMERS....

Radiopilot

 

[Mike Walker]

Frankly I don't give a crap about "your take on that", because it's YOUR TAKE vs. the reasoned, time-tested methodology and sampling of Arbitron. And Arbitron is what the radio industry goes on. Not "your take".

 

[radiopilot]

Frankly I don't give a crap about "your take on that", because it's YOUR TAKE vs. the reasoned, time-tested methodology and sampling of Arbitron. And Arbitron is what the radio industry goes on. Not "your take".

That's right Mike... It's my take on it... Don't like it... You know waht lake to jump in...

Arbitron is NOT the SOLE take on the listenership of radio anymopre and they are being challenged...

HD Radio = 15 years too late...
HD Radio = Now Defective...
HD Radio = Almost NON -EXISTANT to CONSUMERS....

Radiopilot

 

[clouseau]

Give me some credit, I'm not an idiot as you think

I would propose you are getting the credit you deserve. And I would agree you are not an idiot. You ARE a little out of the "reasonable realm" at times, though.

You're posting here and obviously you are very passionate about the subject matter. However we are "ALL" given credit for what we say and post here every day.

When you post the following without taking into account the strip of white "Non coverage" in the middle of the state, you get credit.

http://www.radioshack.com/uc/index.jsp?page=researchLibraryArticle&articleUrl=..%2Fgraphics%2Fuc%2Frsk%2FResearchLibrary%2FBuyersGuides%2Fresearch%2Fhdradio.html

Radio Shack also lying about the HD coverage on it's map...

They are saying all areas of Georgia are broadcasting in HD radio:

When you post THIS.

If only 7 people a week buy HD radios across the U.S. that would be 364 HD radios in the hands of consumers... GUESS WHAT I don't think that is happeing... more like 300 HD radios bought and 290 radios returned.

You get credit.

I'm not going to bother looking it up, but when you post that Arbitron is way off in their Persons Using Radio per week number based on YOUR anecdotal experience, you get credit.

If you want some "Anecdotal" evidence that might support your point of view, walk around a parking lot. Look in the window of every car there. See how many do NOT have radios. Better still, how about a car dealer. Whatever.

My point here is "You ARE getting credit for what you say." I'm just not sure you're liking what you hear.

Clouseau

 

[radiopilot]

Give me some credit, I'm not an idiot as you think

I would propose you are getting the credit you deserve.  And I would agree you are not an idiot.  You ARE a little out of the "reasonable realm" at times, though.

You're posting here and obviously you are very passionate about the subject matter.  However we are "ALL" given credit for what we say and post here every day.

When you post the following without taking into account the strip of white "Non coverage" in the middle of the state, you get credit.

http://www.radioshack.com/uc/index.jsp?page=researchLibraryArticle&articleUrl=..%2Fgraphics%2Fuc%2Frsk%2FResearchLibrary%2FBuyersGuides%2Fresearch%2Fhdradio.html

Radio Shack also lying about the HD coverage on it's map...

They are saying all areas of Georgia are broadcasting in HD radio:

When you post THIS.

If only 7 people a week buy HD radios across the U.S. that would be 364 HD radios in the hands of consumers... GUESS WHAT I don't think that is happeing... more like 300 HD radios bought and 290 radios returned.

You get credit.

I'm not going to bother looking it up,  but when you post that Arbitron is way off in their Persons Using Radio per week number based on YOUR anecdotal experience, you get credit.

If you want some "Anecdotal" evidence that might support your point of view,  walk around a parking lot. Look in the window of every car there.  See how many do NOT have radios.  Better still,  how about a car dealer.  Whatever.

My point here is "You ARE getting credit for what you say."  I'm just not sure you're liking what you hear.

Clouseau 

Nice ... I had a good laugh...

Now reality check...

That strip of white on the Georgia map consists of small towns called Waycross, Fitzgerald, Vidalia, and Waynesboro... according to that map Savannah through St. Mary's would have HD broadcasts from it's local stations since the letter sent back from Radio Shack from the Ibiquity website insists these are FM stations, but the Ibiquity site only lists 4 cities in Georgia broadcasting in HD... NONE of these signals get to Savannah all the way south to St. Mary's...

Now I know my geography of Georgia having lived here since 1995... so the map of course is deceptive... the same goes for South Carolina... it has Hilton Head as having HD broadcasts or HD coverage which again is lies because the only station broadcasting in HD close to Hilton Head are in Charleston too far away for the HD signals.

Fo me Agusta HD stations are the closest to me and the signal is WAY TOO WEAK more than 150 miles for HD to travel to get to Savannah... Look at the Radio Shack map again.

About the car radios in cars at a parking lot... yeah they are all turned off at that moment with ZERO listenership! Now just because an AM/FM CD tuner is in a car does not merit it's being listened to or does Abitron also have PPM's in all those vehicles too?

I'll take anectotal as it comes, doesn't phase me a bit... for some I look ridiculus when the answers can't come from you, Mike, or RFBurns... what we the anti-HD get is pure ridicule, but the ridicule is the HD system and how deceptive the system and practice is and that is something YOU can't answer beacuse you have no say or take on it except to buy an HD radio!

Radiopilot

 

[R.F. Burns]

Give me some credit, I'm not an idiot as you think

I would propose you are getting the credit you deserve. And I would agree you are not an idiot. You ARE a little out of the "reasonable realm" at times, though.

You're posting here and obviously you are very passionate about the subject matter. However we are "ALL" given credit for what we say and post here every day.

When you post the following without taking into account the strip of white "Non coverage" in the middle of the state, you get credit.

http://www.radioshack.com/uc/index.jsp?page=researchLibraryArticle&articleUrl=..%2Fgraphics%2Fuc%2Frsk%2FResearchLibrary%2FBuyersGuides%2Fresearch%2Fhdradio.html

Radio Shack also lying about the HD coverage on it's map...

They are saying all areas of Georgia are broadcasting in HD radio:

When you post THIS.

If only 7 people a week buy HD radios across the U.S. that would be 364 HD radios in the hands of consumers... GUESS WHAT I don't think that is happeing... more like 300 HD radios bought and 290 radios returned.

You get credit.

I'm not going to bother looking it up, but when you post that Arbitron is way off in their Persons Using Radio per week number based on YOUR anecdotal experience, you get credit.

If you want some "Anecdotal" evidence that might support your point of view, walk around a parking lot. Look in the window of every car there. See how many do NOT have radios. Better still, how about a car dealer. Whatever.

My point here is "You ARE getting credit for what you say." I'm just not sure you're liking what you hear.

Clouseau

Nice ... I had a good laugh...

Now reality check...

That strip of white on the Georgia map consists of small towns called Waycross, Fitzgerald, Vidalia, and Waynesboro... according to that map Savannah through St. Mary's would have HD broadcasts from it's local stations since the letter sent back from Radio Shack from the Ibiquity website insists these are FM stations, but the Ibiquity site only lists 4 cities in Georgia broadcasting in HD... NONE of these signals get to Savannah all the way south to St. Mary's...

Now I know my geography of Georgia having lived here since 1995... so the map of course is deceptive... the same goes for South Carolina... it has Hilton Head as having HD broadcasts or HD coverage which again is lies because the only station broadcasting in HD close to Hilton Head are in Charleston too far away for the HD signals.

Fo me Agusta HD stations are the closest to me and the signal is WAY TOO WEAK more than 150 miles for HD to travel to get to Savannah... Look at the Radio Shack map again.

About the car radios in cars at a parking lot... yeah they are all turned off at that moment with ZERO listenership! Now just because an AM/FM CD tuner is in a car does not merit it's being listened to or does Abitron also have PPM's in all those vehicles too?

I'll take anectotal as it comes, doesn't phase me a bit... for some I look ridiculus when the answers can't come from you, Mike, or RFBurns... what we the anti-HD get is pure ridicule, but the ridicule is the HD system and how deceptive the system and practice is and that is something YOU can't answer beacuse you have no say or take on it except to buy an HD radio!

Radiopilot

Quite true, I am a HD listener. If HD makes it, that's fine with me. If not, I know with my Sangean I have an exceptionally sensitive and selective tuner (soon to be two tuners). My question is how is the system "deceptive"? I bought my radios, plugged them in and listen to the HD signals. That is what was advertised. I never felt deceived, as though the radio didn't do what it was designed to do. I constantly hear from the anti IBOC group that NYC isn't the center of the world, as if living in NYC is somehow not equal to living elsewhere. Maybe you can enlighten us.

 

[radionekkid]

you fellows worry too much and fuss about things you can't do anything about.

Lighten up a little, enjoy life, have a girl friend if you so inclined or take up not so stressfull hobby. Radio will find its own way as time is the great equalizer. Take all this from 85 yr old man.

Enjoy, have a good time.